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King Crab - Bringing Back Phoenix Or Founders


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#461 Colin Thrase

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:35 PM

Hi Russ

I really appreciate the increased interaction - I hope make this the new status quo

In regard to packages: Yes, I am always in favor of new packages. Don't get me wrong - CW and more maps would be welcome, but the main thing I have been enjoying in this game is tweaking each of the mechs I own with the Mechlab to find the "ideal version" of each one (for my playstyle anyway). I purchased the top tier Founder, Phoenix, and Clan packages (though I didn't get the Griffin and Wolverine, which I deeply regret now).

I would only ask that you pace the package releases at roughly the same rate they have been coming out so far. I would like to master at least 1 variant of each chassis in the previous package before the next package comes out.

In addition, I would like to continue seeing Hero variants released for each of the existing non-package mechs. I have purchased many of the hero mechs (the only thing preventing me from getting more is that I haven't mastered the ones I have. I'm working on two simultaneously right now: Huggin and Dragon Slayer)

I'm probably not your typical player though, based on the feedback I've seen from others. Aside from 3PV, I think you guys have been doing great all along (I'm on the fence about ghost heat. I agree something had to stop the crazy alphas from 6 PPC Stalkers - I'm just not convinced ghost heat was the best solution).

If you're going to make an IS package, might I recommend...
  • Panther
  • Wolf Trap or Crab (the 50 tonner)
  • Grasshopper
  • Cyclops
Keep up the great work - still love the game (always have)

#462 Thell

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:37 PM

It seems fair to have an IS package. Personally I am all about the Clan mechs but there are IS mechs that I do enjoy. I already qualify for a King Crab but if you guys can manage a cheaper IS package then by all means go for it. I think the community overall would be fine with it but I could be wrong. Perhaps make an IS collection that involves the Mauler, Bushwacker, Black Knight and Wolfhound for example.

I edited cause I forgot about the Bushwacker, fudge the Clint.

Edited by Thell, 19 September 2014 - 06:57 PM.


#463 Jack Gallows

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:42 PM

We've had two Inner Sphere packs and now two Clan. I think the best option at this point, should another pack be developed, would be a split pack that allows people to pick based on IS and/or Clan.

4-5 'mechs per side, which the Faction specialties you're offering with this wave two Clan pack. Mad Dog and King Crab per side (max 80 bucks or 120, but I think 80s a sweet spot per side.)

Let people pick one or both. Could even have different bonuses if they picked a single side or if they pick both/etc.


Not to tangle with the whole unseen bit, but honestly should just get Alex Iglesias to cleverly redesign the unseen designs as to have no issue with HG, but still recognizable enough for us to know what they're supposed to be. Could even show us basic concept art of what they are and involve us in the process so that the community as a whole could actually have a hand in crafting the future of Battletech.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 19 September 2014 - 06:46 PM.


#464 S3dition

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:47 PM

View PostRuss Bullock, on 18 September 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Here is my take on this subject being heavily discussed. In case your unaware the summary is that we have plenty of IS loyalists who either missed the chance or chose not to buy a Legendary founders or Phoenix overlord package. Now to qualify for the King Crab their only remaining option is to buy either a Masakari or Man O War package. But of course they are IS loyalists so this option is understandably not much of an option at all.

Here are a few hard stops as I see it:

Although there were many ways we could have gone about the Customer appreciation program and the criteria we set for each of the various rewards. The fact is we launched it under the requirements that we did and many people have already made significant buying decisions based on that information so I don't think it would be fair to adjust that criteria at this point.

Next on to the Foundes and Phoenix programs, I have read the threads and although there is some support in both cases there is also I believe enough players that are against the prospect that it would be unfair of Piranha to bring those programs back.

Trust me bringing back the Founders or Phoenix program would be by far the easiest option for Piranha to provide, however I don't feel we have the complete support we would need to do so. Which means that IF we were to provide a new IS package it would need to be a NEW program.

If we look at the price points of the four qualifying packages they go from 120, 80, 240 and 120. Therefore the lowest price point was the Phoenix Overlord package and with that in mind I think any new program would at least need to match the 80$ package level. Also Piranha has never charged for one of these programs at these dollar amounts unless the value of the packages were high and the biggest part of that value was in the fact the chassis were all new.

So I think if we were to offer a package for IS players to get in order to qualify for the King Crab I think it would need to be a new 80$ package with new IS chassis.

I want to hear your thoughts now on this, because it takes significant resources to develop one of these packages and we would need to have some idea on what the support level would be, how many would be interested?


How about an $80 "prototype" package? many of us are waiting for mechs right on the edge of 3055 and not 100% in the current time frame, but would HAVE to have been already in prototype stage in order to make a 3055 production schedule (some military vehicles can remain in testing for over a decade before production).

An example would be:

Bushwacker (available in 3049, but plagued with electronic problems until the clan invasion) This is a very popular choice
Battle Hawk (Light mech with only 1 variant)
Apollo (Medium mech with plenty of variants)
Albatross (assault mech)
Colossus (assault mech)
Flashfire (light)
Cerberus (Assault)
Anvil (Heavy mech with ECM and lots of variants)
Black Hawk-KU (IS version of the black hawk)

The idea is to add the proper amount of mechs, as a pack with 4 chassis is expected to have 12 total mechs delivered. In this case, you could spread that out where there is only 1 variant available. For example, if there is are 2 chassis with only 1 variant, and 2 chassis with 6 variants, including all 4 chassis could still result in 12 total mechs.

Otherwise, you could potentially make make 6 chassis with 2 variants each (wider variety without the ability to fully elite them. They are prototypes, afterall).

So there are many ways to do this, and it could be released as a "prototype package" for the IS push against clan.

#465 Griggio

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 07:15 PM

View PostS3dition, on 19 September 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:


How about an $80 "prototype" package? many of us are waiting for mechs right on the edge of 3055 and not 100% in the current time frame, but would HAVE to have been already in prototype stage in order to make a 3055 production schedule (some military vehicles can remain in testing for over a decade before production).

An example would be:

Bushwacker (available in 3049, but plagued with electronic problems until the clan invasion) This is a very popular choice
Battle Hawk (Light mech with only 1 variant)
Apollo (Medium mech with plenty of variants)
Albatross (assault mech)
Colossus (assault mech)
Flashfire (light)
Cerberus (Assault)
Anvil (Heavy mech with ECM and lots of variants)
Black Hawk-KU (IS version of the black hawk)

The idea is to add the proper amount of mechs, as a pack with 4 chassis is expected to have 12 total mechs delivered. In this case, you could spread that out where there is only 1 variant available. For example, if there is are 2 chassis with only 1 variant, and 2 chassis with 6 variants, including all 4 chassis could still result in 12 total mechs.

Otherwise, you could potentially make make 6 chassis with 2 variants each (wider variety without the ability to fully elite them. They are prototypes, afterall).

So there are many ways to do this, and it could be released as a "prototype package" for the IS push against clan.



I like it, at the same time, artificially fast forwarding the timeline to obtain tech that would appeal to people doesn't really seem like it deals with the core issues revolving around the current reward system and why people really want a "cheap" IS pack. Most likely what would end up happening is the Clan playerbase pushing now for a response to the response pack and now we start seeing Clan non-omni chassis and so on and so on.

There is no easy answer. There's so many sections of the community who have different reasons why this is such a big issue to them at some point you just have to cut it off because you're not going to make everyone happy.

I

#466 LordDread

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 07:16 PM

As a founder/overlord ..

would i support a re release of either package? hell NO, not one bit
would i support a new IS pack being made? hell YES
would i buy the pack ? HELL YES

would i pony up for said pack if it was released before the December deadline to get the kingcrab (if i needed it), even knowing that this project was rushed forward due to community request and could be 3-4 months into the new year before getting them? Well with the new behavior from PGI (and if you keep it up) then yes, yes i will buy this pack.

#467 Ace of Spades

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 07:23 PM

Just bring in a Comstar package. Like a Comstar lance, called tukayyid troopers or something like that. It would be nice to finally see the Exterminator too...

So I can imagine Comstar colours (mainly white?), decals and the typical mechs, maybe the Mongoose too. Of course all have Starleague tech (so DHS and all the advanced stuff), plus the King Crab would fit nicely in that package as the extra mech you get for the purchase of a package.

You can even make it so that those guys who buy the Comstar package get an additional exclusive skin for their King Crab in Comstar colors.
This collective might be also an additional incentive to purchase this package for people that already have the King Crab.

#468 S3dition

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 08:46 PM

View PostGriggio, on 19 September 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:



I like it, at the same time, artificially fast forwarding the timeline to obtain tech that would appeal to people doesn't really seem like it deals with the core issues revolving around the current reward system and why people really want a "cheap" IS pack. Most likely what would end up happening is the Clan playerbase pushing now for a response to the response pack and now we start seeing Clan non-omni chassis and so on and so on.

There is no easy answer. There's so many sections of the community who have different reasons why this is such a big issue to them at some point you just have to cut it off because you're not going to make everyone happy.

I


The tech already exists. All it adds are chassis types. As far as the game is concerned, there is no advantage at all. However, for the sake of keeping it simple, they could do an IS response pack:

Urbanmech
Bushwacker
Grasshopper
King Crab

This gives a little experimental boost to it (the Bushwacker was technically available in 3049, just not in full production yet). The King Crab is already on the drawing board and the Urbanmech should both be simple to model and something that a lot of people have expressed interest in. The Grasshopper is another popular mech.

Since the King Crab is already confirmed, this would basically pre-fund it as well.

Edited by S3dition, 19 September 2014 - 08:47 PM.


#469 RalphyNoPants

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:06 PM

View PostRitterzero, on 18 September 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

Even though I'm already getting a King Crab, I would buy an $80 IS pack, as long as all the mechs are new.

I'm with you Ritter.

#470 SweetJackal

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:21 PM

View PostGhogiel, on 19 September 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Granted artists won't write anything besides high level code.
But getting switched from character design to environment design to level design as needed is fairly common place for artists in the industry. If you can't do that you are either and intern or at the least a junior position and should be wanting to jump in and get experience on that. So yeah maps yo.


And unless I have misread we have Russ saying in this very thread that they wouldn't be stripping away the map development team.

#471 JoolNoret

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:43 PM

I'm glad to hear Phoenix and Founders will stay locked away. As far as putting together a new pack so those who missed the train can get a free mech, meh. If they came to the game too late to get a Phoenix I can kind of understand but if they were around at the time they snoozed they lose, imho. On the other hand, it seems like a lot of people would pay up and PGI making money is a win for all of us. Regardless of when it comes I'll be buying the next IS pack. It would take an act of god to stop me from buying a Harmony Gold pack. (Hey, I can dream can't I) I guess it just depends on how many butts will be hurt if they make available another pack to buy "so soon." Really though, I think a top tier wave 2 clan pack covers things just fine. Claiming to be an IS purist just doesn't hold enough water to justify, in my mind, scrambling together a new pack. Like I said though, might make some cash fly out of wallets.

#472 Tolkien

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 01:58 AM

Since the Phoenix pack and founders packs were advertised as 'limited edition' and in the case of the phoneix mechs 'never to be available again' it would be betraying the trust of everyone who bought them on that premise to re-issue them.

It's probably far better to just make sure the king crab is available for MC the instant it's dropped in as a reward item, then for Cbills a week or two later.

TL;DR: Re-opening packs that were advertised as 'limited time only' is shady. Just sell the king crab as soon as it's put in as a reward mech.

#473 Newtype

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:21 AM

View PostTolkien, on 20 September 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Since the Phoenix pack and founders packs were advertised as 'limited edition' and in the case of the phoneix mechs 'never to be available again' it would be betraying the trust of everyone who bought them on that premise to re-issue them.

It's probably far better to just make sure the king crab is available for MC the instant it's dropped in as a reward item, then for Cbills a week or two later.

TL;DR: Re-opening packs that were advertised as 'limited time only' is shady. Just sell the king crab as soon as it's put in as a reward mech.


I agree with you but I guess its just that some of the players really want the 30% C-bills bonus. Also the King Crab actually will be available for MC purchasing when it's injected on Dec. 16 please see the link below:

http://mwomercs.com/...ogram-feedback/

Edited by Newtype, 20 September 2014 - 03:22 AM.


#474 Griggio

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:37 AM

View PostS3dition, on 19 September 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:


The tech already exists. All it adds are chassis types. As far as the game is concerned, there is no advantage at all. However, for the sake of keeping it simple, they could do an IS response pack:

Urbanmech
Bushwacker
Grasshopper
King Crab

This gives a little experimental boost to it (the Bushwacker was technically available in 3049, just not in full production yet). The King Crab is already on the drawing board and the Urbanmech should both be simple to model and something that a lot of people have expressed interest in. The Grasshopper is another popular mech.

Since the King Crab is already confirmed, this would basically pre-fund it as well.


You said Bushwaker and instantly brought back fond memories of MW4.

I see where you're going with this. Urbie would sell packs all by itself. I just had a concern about getting into this endless cycle of escalation as one side gets something the other side insists it gets something too.(Kinda like how we got where we are now.)

That's a pretty solid pack overall.

#475 Tolkien

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:44 AM

View PostNewtype, on 20 September 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:


I agree with you but I guess its just that some of the players really want the 30% C-bills bonus. Also the King Crab actually will be available for MC purchasing when it's injected on Dec. 16 please see the link below:

http://mwomercs.com/...ogram-feedback/



I was under the impression that the king crab hero will be available for MC and will have the same 30% cbill bonus. I'm a little confused about what the complaint is.

#476 Ovion

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:49 AM

For anything they make you have to remember the simple rules of mechs in MWO:
It must have 3 variants in 3049 / 3050.
It cannot have MASC (for they are scared of it).

This rules out the bushwhacker for now, as it was an unusable experimental failiure till 3053. :(

Urbanmech and Crab are both solid choices though. :)

#477 Dark DeLaurel

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:50 AM

View PostTolkien, on 20 September 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:



I was under the impression that the king crab hero will be available for MC and will have the same 30% cbill bonus. I'm a little confused about what the complaint is.


It will be just the regular versions that will be open for MC/C-Bills.

#478 Tetra One

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:51 AM

Please fix existing maps, bring in a few more, fix hitreg and desynch/disconnect before allocating any extra resources to new mech packs...

Thank you

#479 MadTulip

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:04 AM

What about bringen a KGC hero out fast? also 30% CB bonus also 2 AC20

#480 Tkhaw

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:06 AM

Generally speaking, I would go for the Clanbuster pack

As most have highlighted already, those could be

Hussar,
Crab,
Black Knight,
Katana

But if it does not fit the timeline,

These are the ones I would suggest

Panther - kuritan
Dervish - Davion
Grasshopper/Guillotine - Marik
Zeus - Steiner

You gave us the vindicator already, so it would make sense for the other houses to get theirs :)

Edited by Tkhaw, 20 September 2014 - 04:07 AM.






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