90 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Asyres, on 19 September 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'll grant you that it's not perfect, but I'm not convinced that we could get better data. Most significant changes to the parameters of the trial would mean that it less closely represents the experiences of most players.

But that is the thing. In running these tests, is PGI testing only the Mechs? Or is PGI testing PUG player performance as well and basing balance decisions on it? If it is the former, then the methodology is suspect. But if it is the latter, then I can sort of understand (but still do not agree).

[Wolfways]

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 September 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

It cant be crap if the AC's make it good. Couldn't you say that about any mech. If it weren't for X it would be crap.

Only if it carries AC's

[Hoax415]

This thread delivers.

Here we are hearing the same its all IS pilots being bads that causes the imbalance perception song and dance.

No good pilot thinks clans are OP lalallalalalalallalalalalala~! Its just newbs who think that lalalalalalalala~!

Suddenly a top pilot from the top unit shows up and says "no really, clan mechs are OP guys".

*denial intensifies*

Stay ******** clan partisans, instead of trying to help by suggesting good constructive nerfs to SCR and TBR that won't make them less fun to pilot you derail every discussion with this silly "debate".

As a result you'll end up being left with whatever Paul decides to do to "fix" the situation which will probably be ham fisted and clumsy and hurt the other clan mechs the most.

If I was a clan pilot I'd be pushing for making the clan side in CW not follow a 3/3/3/3 class distribution.. it'd be a good way to end the need for even more clan mech nerfs if say clan teams were 4/4/2/2 or 3/4/4/1.

Because you guys certainly need to stop making silly threads like this. I feel embarrassed for you that your so desperate to maintain your advantage.

Edited by Hoax415, 19 September 2014 - 02:35 PM.

[TankHamsta]

Mcgral18, on 19 September 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

I'm still not convinced PUG matches are the place to do these test.

One match I was placed with 4 Champs and multiple sub sub-optimal mechs. It was an IS vs IS, and it was a stomp, as one would expect. Clans wouldn't have changed that.


I only got 3 IS vs Clan matches this time around, so not enough to use them as an argument either way. IS won twice, Clan once.

Simple answer: You're part of the 10% & 27% that managed to lose against Inferior Sphere mechs.

meteorol, on 19 September 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Guess you missed that part where Clans won 90% of the matches in the first clan vs IS test and 73% in the second (after the laser nerfs)?

Edited by TankHamsta, 19 September 2014 - 01:30 PM.

[Mcgral18]

TankHamsta, on 19 September 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Simple answer: You're part of the 10% & 27% that managed to lose against Inferior Sphere mechs.

Nah, I was carrying hard with Wub.

Both were hard carries




The loss was partially due to a leg humping Stalker, who prevented me from moving away. The 6 bads didn't help with that loss either.

[Asyres]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

But that is the thing. In running these tests, is PGI testing only the Mechs? Or is PGI testing PUG player performance as well and basing balance decisions on it? If it is the former, then the methodology is suspect. But if it is the latter, then I can sort of understand (but still do not agree).

There isn't really a way to account for player performance (in or out of PUGs). People being bad, or bringing bad loadouts essentially introduces random error to the result. However, as your data set increases in size, the effect of that random error becomes less important - in this case because you can effectively assume that the instances of people being terrible become more or less equal across the two teams as the number of tests (matches) increases.

Performing a limited number of tests using players who are ostensibly equal in skill would actually inflate the effect of mistakes on the data set, even if those players are less likely to make mistakes.

And all of that totally disregards the simple fact that balancing mechs and equipment around what works in 12 man teams does not necessarily mean that those systems will be balanced for the majority of players who don't engage in 12 mans regularly.

[DeathjesterUK]

Clan mechs are clearly OP from the testing that is being conducted. a 73% win rate is idiotic. That needs to be addressed. So its not a meme, its a real concern with real facts backing it up.

Curse those pesky facts, they can be used to prove anything that is even remotely true!

[Verdic Mckenna]

DeathjesterUK, on 19 September 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Clan mechs are clearly OP from the testing that is being conducted. a 73% win rate is idiotic. That needs to be addressed. So its not a meme, its a real concern with real facts backing it up.

Curse those pesky facts, they can be used to prove anything that is even remotely true!

Its unfortunate that Clan mechs SHOULD have a 73% win rate. I'd be satisfied with 64%. XL's will probably do that. And even then people will wail. Clan Mechs were introduced to the franchise to completely reshuffle the board - and admittedly it was a little too much change. However, this thread - It's a circle jerk - and you're perpetuating it. I'm pretty sure Russ Bullock is fully aware of the issue and their team is working on a solution. HOWEVER* please be aware that even with balance they are probably running a margin of error. Chances are balance aims could only possibly target like 60% win/loss. It would be impossible to think everything could be balanced 50/50. It just isn't going to happen.

[n r g]

Enlil09, on 19 September 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

• The Clan has NO ANSWER to Ravens, Jenners, Spiders, etc. etc. In any one on one match, given two pilots of equal skill, an IS light will tear apart any Clan mech 9 out of 10 times. And yes, that includes the Timberwolf.

what are you smoking, can I get some?

I'll gladly let you take any light of your choosing, and will happily smash you in a 1v1 duel right now, using the Timberwolf.

[Johnny Z]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that clan tech is OP? Its not an opinion.

[Mcgral18]

Johnny Z, on 19 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Has anyone mentioned the fact that clan tech is OP? Its not an opinion.

Dem cACs.