135 replies to this topic

[Celthora]

I ask ppl talking about omnimechs and lore, show me where sling gauss and ppc under 90m rule writen???

The primary build of Thor: -erppc, lbx10, lrm 15- DOES NOT FIT in this conditions. What are you discussing about?

Edited by Celthora, 19 September 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

r4plez, on 19 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Actually Loki Prime at least 27t of pod space , based on PGI loadout sheet, and thats only weapons, ammo, ECM, BAP, TC mkIII - strip armor you get more

Strip armor, you die. It has 10 tons standard armor, stock MWO version (8 tons in the real version). That's what a Hunchback carries, stock, for comparisons sake. You will be ADDING 2.5 to 3 tons armor, in actuality.

[Blue Boutique]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 September 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Strip armor, you die.

I usually strip 30% armor off my Thor and get over 600+ damage with 6+ mission kills, components destroyed to remove guns, ammo and legs, just by using the brain case.

[Utilyan]

I think it should be kept in mind that we are comparing a Summoner that has been nerfed to the ground literally, it should be doing 150 meter jump jets rather then 22. Even if we had poptart disabled. This thing should been on the high ground in all encounters.


You folks might be familiar with this tower in crimson strait........If that tower was twice its size the summoner could jump right over it.......


I AM THOR!

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 September 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Gonna hold you to that. Summoner is my favorite Non-Unseen mech.

Wow really? One could hardly tell you like the Summoner at all...

[DONTOR]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 September 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

unless the hellbringer grew some JJs, gotta disagree with you.

For now ECM beats JJs by 1000%, well see where ECM lands though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Wow really? One could hardly tell you like the Summoner at all...

Blue Boutique, on 19 September 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

I usually strip 30% armor off my Thor and get over 600+ damage with 6+ mission kills, components destroyed to remove guns, ammo and legs, just by using the brain case.

Wow. so 1337. Wonder why the comps don't do that...

DONTOR, on 19 September 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

For now ECM beats JJs by 1000%, well see where ECM lands though.

Number of Mechs I own with ECM? 1 (about to be 3, apparently).
Number of Mechs I own with JJs? Every one I can get my hands on that weight under 80 tons.

DONTOR, on 19 September 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

For now ECM beats JJs by 1000%, well see where ECM lands though.

Waddya think DON? After all, you do favor the triple Gauss Ilya, still, right?

Blue Boutique, on 19 September 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

I usually strip 30% armor off my Thor and get over 600+ damage with 6+ mission kills, components destroyed to remove guns, ammo and legs, just by using the brain case.

Summoner with less armor than a Firestarter? Gonna end well with any regularity against opponents who know how to aim? Or does Brain case in this mean hiding in the back and sniping?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 19 September 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

The Summoner doesn't suck, it's all about the pilot. The Summoner is but a tool.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gremlich Johns, on 19 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

The Summoner doesn't suck, it's all about the pilot. The Summoner is but a tool.

What if the pilot is a tool, too?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 19 September 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Khobai, on 19 September 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

I dont think the Summoner is underpowered. The Summoner seems to stack up pretty good against 70 ton IS mechs.

The problem is the Timber Wolf is way overpowered.



Except tonnage should have no bearing on how "good" a mech is.

A mech thats lighter should simply have different strengths than a mech thats heavier (i.e. faster, more agile, smaller profile, etc...). Equalizing weight classes is an integral part of role warfare, which is an aspect of this game thats unfortunately lacking.

Again the problem is the Timber Wolf gets a lot of strengths over the Summoner which it shouldnt have. The Timber Wolf S isnt penalized nearly enough for gaining jumpjets.

The Locust disagrees with you.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

I feel the Summoner is balanced. I mean sure if you compare it to the Timber Wolf it's underwhelming, but so are most other heavies. It's also 5 tons lighter so I really don't think it's meant to compete, at least not in terms of raw firepower. The Summoner can REALLY take a beating though, like to the point where I've been shocked and asking myself "how am I not dead yet?". Better hitbox profile than the Timber Wolf and jumpjetting around can really help spread that damage. I think buffing it would be a huge mistake.

Edited by Iyica de Tylmarande, 19 September 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

It would be one thing if we had CW active and we could choose not only the maps and environments we'd fight in, but also the mechs and loadouts. I think that once CW is active, people will choose the best mech for the mission and map. That mech might just be the Summoner.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 19 September 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

Gremlich Johns, on 19 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

It would be one thing if we had CW active and we could choose not only the maps and environments we'd fight in, but also the mechs and loadouts. I think that once CW is active, people will choose the best mech for the mission and map. That mech might just be the Summoner.

I would certainly take the Summoner in urban environments.

[SgtMagor]

jump jet nerf hurt a lot of mechs, and taking a Summoner with low performing jump stats wouldn't be the best thing to do!

[Blue Boutique]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Summoner with less armor than a Firestarter? Gonna end well with any regularity against opponents who know how to aim? Or does Brain case in this mean hiding in the back and sniping?

Wow, you admonished those who use Victors and Highlanders yet you abolish those who are creative? Sorry to say that the skilled players don't reside in the high elo brackets .

[KharnZor]

Before the jj nerf i used to approach my summoner builds with a do more with less philosophy, did middling to well with them.
They lost so much agility. Victor lvls imo

Edited by KharnZor, 19 September 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[Ultimax]

Iyica de Tylmarande, on 19 September 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

I feel the Summoner is balanced. I mean sure if you compare it to the Timber Wolf it's underwhelming,

I compare it to my Stormcrow and my CTF-3D.


I find it lacking in those specific comparisons.

[Mystere]

Gremlich Johns, on 19 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

The Summoner doesn't suck, it's all about the pilot. The Summoner is but a tool.

Well, there are good tools and bad tools.

[Pika]

Let's at least wait until it's in the game before we write the whole mech off, yeah?

[Quxudica]

Celthora, on 19 September 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Yes, it does not add something, its only a lower version of Madcat even Ryoken atm, nevertheless it has a sucky pitch ang. Therefore there is something need to do about saving it like done to Awesome. Maybe make JJ's preferable for 1 variant at least and increase other stuff.

Thor is a mech that supposed to use less amount number of weapons but heavier weapons. If they keep it weak we will keep seeing more Madcats, Ryokens that using bunch of lasers at a time, plays with 1 weapon group, which much easier to hit.

Edit: The thing i tried to say is you can do better of the same thing with Madcat, so there is no reason to use Thor now. Consider about all builds, Madcat has more space for weapons, more armor wtih better hitbox, more hardpoints. So Madcat>Thor atm. You can't compare and say Kintaro is better than Hunchback right? They are different mechs and add different things to the game but Madcat is just the better of the same thing of Thor.

Only difference is u can load 5 missles to Thor, mass ssrm6 or srm6+art are fun indeed, but when riding a Thor you should expect more than a 1 group stupid build. Madcat even makes better srm6 playing, remove 1 of it and get some medlas instead and its beat again by Madcat...

And the right name of topic should be: "Thor is a fail compared to Madcat"

Problem is MWO's heat system and convergence cause the gameplay to gravitate favorably towards combo's that yield very high alpha numbers, generally speaking. While their are exceptions (some small boom mechs can use a single ac20, some mechs can use a single gauss or dual guass/ac20), generally speaking it's less advantageous to bring a few heavy weapons than it is to bring many small/medium weapons.

This is especially true as you go up in mech size. A single ppc can be usable on a light or medium with decent effect, but a heavy or assault really needs that high alpha number and bringing only a couple weapons generally does not cut it. If the game mechanics encouraged firing only a couple weapons at a time, instead of en mass, it would be more favorable for mechs like the Summoner I think.