268 replies to this topic

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jonneh, on 23 June 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Who said anything about being inept with the mechlab or wanting to "hamstring everyone" ? My point is quite simple. Are you aware that of all the games made around the battle tech IP there are exactly 0 that have been accepted into canon? We don't need or want to follow the TT rulebook, because it wont necessarily translate well into an online 12v12 pvp game.

Its simple: Nobody here has played the game yet, and nobody here is even remotely qualified to say what should and shouldn't be an available customization for balance reasons or otherwise. So threads like this one the OP made are totally pointless.



Its easy to say because its true. I don;t know the first thing about BT TT, but I'll still be playing and playing well. I couldn't care less about the TT because its not the experience I expect this game to give me.

Making threads asking for this and that to be changed, tweaked, "balanced" and etc at this stage is just moronic. Lets allow Piranha to make the game and get it out into beta before we start asking for things we have no clue or context for.

Game is based off of tabletop. Stop living in denial and ignorance.

I think a better assumption about people not playing the game yet here is that there are plenty who are holding their tongue because of the NDA.

[Calisrue]

As it is, with the hardpoint system things will be more restricted than in say, MW2. I understand some people might be concerned that customization will lead min/maxers to go to a few vanilla powerboat builds.... but really even in MW4 where you occasionally saw this happening you would also see good players take a mech and build nobody thought of as top tier and wreak havoc just because people weren't used to playing against it. Customizability is one of biggest things that sets mechwarrior apart from other FPS or tank type games. Also its very much in the canon to be able to customize mechs (although maybe not as common or easy as in the computer games)

[Remarius]

Keep thinking I should post on this thread then thinking... but this is the 10th thread like this today!!!!

Versatility and choice vs everyone in cloned rides that will drop to maybe 3-4 in total as the rest are clearly worse.

I choose versatility!

[Voyager I]

My favorite part of Mecha games is the ability to tweak out my machine. The Mech Lab we were shown in the demo has me salivating. Shut that down and I'd rather play through the Mercs campaign.


Back in Starsiege, the actual gameplay was basically just trial runs for my ongoing R&D. I'm not the only one who played Starsiege, right?

Edited by Voyager I, 23 June 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[JP Josh]

when will people learn that one variant is not the best but will be eaten alive by another varient? seriously instead of ******** about it look for that variants weakness!!

you could tweak your mech in table top so you should tweak it here and thats what the DEVS made it possible we can still tweak it but not monster mech tweak.

Edited by JP Josh, 23 June 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[Siriothrax]

The drawback to turning a 95t mech into a heavier armored Warhammer is that all you've gotten yourself is an undergunned assault; for the same drop tonnage, you could have a Warhammer and a scout. You may not be crippling yourself, but you sure as hell are crippling your team.

[Griffinhart]

Mech Modifications has always been more complex and sublte than what it appears at first blush. There is no reason to further restrict what can be done in Mechlab. It has always been a dance of balancing weight, armor, heat, amno, speed and range. Personally, I don't think we need the hardpoint restriction at all, but I'll live with it.

[Anixantheas]

Kinda funny, Everyone cries versitility. Yet it is this versitility that is going to create different versions of cookie cutter mechs than the "standard" loadout.

"Boo hoo, I don't wanna play a Hunchback 4G, I want to play my own variant becuase I'm original!"

Only then they find out that everyone else has replaced the AC/20 with a gauss, just like them.


"Boo hoo, Versitility will create balance, there is no room for TT rules in a Computer game"

Yes, The amazing amout of versitility that every keeps crying about will eventually come, it is called an OMNI-mech
IS mechs are not designed to have weapon systems swapped out willy nilly <- this is where alot of the hate for the mechlab comes from from many of the TT people.

From a Balance standpoint the IS mechs ARE optimized, if you read the writeups you will see that many times Mech A and Mech B work together, one is the fire support while one is the brawler, one covers the deficiencies of the other. THAT is how the IS field tactics work. The IS mech construction isn't based on the "one mech to rule them all" style motif that the Omni-mech represents

[HANGMAN1962]

ok 1st off a warhammers not 95 tons.
2nd its not stage 1 tt rules soo thay lets use use varients of the stock mech's
if its not official varient u cant make it{ie no missile boat hunchbacks/all energy atles or what not}
last but not least miner differences in mech layout is the back bone of inner spere mech wariors,as you cant all ways get the same weapon scavenged off the battlefeild in older time lines of battletech.
sounds like you want to play an assualt but dont want any suprizes like a med/lite with max armer that wont go pop on the 1st shot you land on it.
miner mods to your mech is the lifeblood of a mech warrior, its his personal tuoch making his/her mech there own and not a carben copy of every other one out there!

sincerly the"hangman"

[HiredGun]

I would like to see this as close to the tabletop game as possible. I say, if you got the space and got the tonnage, have at er.

[darknothing]

Bad idea, way to much.

[Birddog FAC]

Thariel, on 23 June 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

As we all know there's hardpoints for weapons and these are limited by numbers, not weight, like 1 Slot energy-weapon can be re-equipped with just one e-weapon, no matter what kind (if the tonnage and max-crits fit).

first i'd like to have this more strictly. like not just energy-slot but Laser-slots, PPC-slots, AC-slots, Gauss-Slots etc.

So you can change your PPC for the ER-Variant , but not for lasers.

Same goes with this: (From the dev-Corner-thread Q& A no. 5)
[b]

I hope this gets changed so the engine can't be altered at all, armor can be upgraded only and only a little and no further heatsinks can be added, no change from normal to endo- structure, normal to ferro-fibrus armour, normal to xxl engine.


Why do i want it this way? Well if we can change whatever we want, what's the use of different mechs. I chose the speed i want, take a mech builder programm, find out what weight gives me most free tonnage for my desired speed and buy that mech and then just rebuild it.

Example:
I want to play a warhammer? Sure, but why stick with it, I need 4/6 movement (tabletop). So with a xxl reactor, a 95 ton mech gives me the most free tonnage. So I can take any 95 ton mech, boost it to 4/6 speed, pick one of the dozens of variants that has 2 e-slots in the arms, put the ppc's in, add 2 med lasers srm6 and a machine gun, add a huge amount of double heatsinks and have still about 10 tons left, means I have an even better warhammer with way more armour, way more heatsinks and room for another ppc+ heatsinks at no disadvantage (this doesn't even include ferro-fibrus or endo steel, with both I have more than 15 tons free).

If we do so, why do we need lots of different mechs. One of the fun parts of battletech is having lots and lots of different mechs. If I could change 1 mech into whatever I need atm, I lose one major part of the game.


Would like to hear you unbiased ("I want want want want to play MY build") opinions on that.

The idea of a Mechlab is to allow customization of your mech doing thing this way only allows "upgradeing its stock weapons" you can argue that in the Mechwarrior universe that there are verry few cutomized mechs or that only aces have truly custom mechs. but thats in accurate as different factions modify mechs and even different units. plus that has been the main draw if the battletech/ mechwarrior universes if im correct you are in fact a noob to this game. And this was probably not one of the best ideas posted. that said. when they release the clan mechs when ever they choose to do so they are fully customize able known as Omni Mechs with quick change parts. so this system would make innersphere mechs un playable. in an online game like this... to put it in perspective if you have played MW3 or COD there is nobody except the newest player playing with a stock configuration and as soon as they lvl up a bit they find a combo of weapos and attachments that work for them. therefore a custome loadout... even in th U.S. Millitary there is personal load out customization ... not at the rate of MW3 or COD but you can request permission for sights and imple mods for your personal weapon or add a few magazines... so by saying you can get the longer range varient but not any other weapon is like saying choose between an M16A2 and an M4. but we will not field pistols the Squad automatic weapon or the M203 grenade launcher to your troops just because.


there is no way this game would not survive in an online universe.

[Primarck]

BLeeD, on 23 June 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Freaking table toppers. Its a video game, this is made for mass appeal not a small % of the population of table top players. We understand you love the game and want it to be whats written in the game manual but this game has evolved. Its going to be a semi persistent or persistent universe. Try it before you start bashing it please.

I hate the haters,

raging , , im out

How did those other games with all those options work out for ya? In the end, all mechs will be the same once the uber build is figured out. Then the devs will nerf it, and a new one will come along...rinse and repeat.

Freaking FPSers...it's Mechwarrior...it should fit the history and lore of the universe...not appeal to some 1337 idiots who like to hop around the screen pwning nubs. We understand that you love FPS games and you want this to be exactly like Counterstrike, but this is a Mechwarrior game, and it has evolved. Try something other than FPS games before bashing thoughts and ideas from folks who love the Mechwarrior universe.

I hate the haters too,

not so much rage, but I'm out...

P.

Jonneh, on 23 June 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Another thread trying to turn the PC game into the table top.

Sorry dudes. Freedom, customization and accessibility are a big pull for me and I'm sure a lot of others. I don't want to be restricted just because the table top says so.

I'm sure the Devs are capable of balancing this game without the need to pick up the rule book and start copying it into the mechlab. Lets see what they come up with before making more threads like this ok?

Because the other mech games where crazy free customization were balanced? Sure they were, once everyone started taking the same broken crap.

P.

[Primarck]

sgt coloncrunch, on 23 June 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Variety is the spice of life, please don't try and force your flavorless grool on the rest of us.

Thanks.

So you are the type of guy who wants to take a Bomber and put fighter weapons on it so you can be in a fighter? Why not just use the fighter?

I think a lot of the point is this;

Why build a fire support mech out of a close range brawler, then there are already fire support mechs out there? No one is limiting your play style, but for the most part, mechs had roles in a battle, why would we want a system where any mech can fit any role? To me, that's pretty boring.

Why force your halo/counterstrike/insert other fps game, bs on us? Goes both ways.


P.

[Primarck]

Jonneh, on 23 June 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Clearly the OP is asking for a restriction, quoting the table top as a source. I just responded to his post. I don't know the table top rules, and I don't care to. They are not relevant to this game imo and will not assist me in being a better MWO player.

So, I don't care to learn the facts sorry. I do care to rebutt clueless posts demanding this game be more "true to canon" and "following the TT".

Lets play what they see as the vision for their own game first before we spout fanboyish stuff about how we think it can be better.

Like how all the FPS folks raised hell early on in these forums demanding full customization? You mean like that? Well, turns out the loud minority seems to have gotten it;s way. Grats on that I guess. I hope it's good enough to keep the game going, but you don't seem to care about how many people play and spend money on the game, you only want it your way. I really hope your way doesn't cost the game players and in the end kill it outright. I have seen very little compromise from the FPS complainers, they just keep spouting the TTers should "shut up and get over it".

Again, I hope for the sake of the game, you guys are right.


P.

[StriplingWarrior]

Fl3tcher, on 23 June 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

I have this gut feeling that Omnis will be like the Omnis in the later MW games. . 1 maybe 2 omni slots and lots of regular hardpoints. . You can already swap the loadout of an IS mech for a totally different set of weapons in the MechBay (Lasers for a PPC, LRMs for SRMs Smaller ACs for Bigger ACs). . isn't that what the Omni mechs supposed to be for?

Example:
Timber Wolf Prime Lasers and LRMs,
Timber Wolf A, PPC, Lasers, SRM

With the mech bay you could do that to any mech with laser and missile hardpoints

Mechbay? making Omnimechs out of anything?

(yeah, I know the B/C varients use AC and Gauss but that's what the omni slot is for )

Yes and No, hopefully the devs have worked a simple solution. It should cost a huge heap of c-bills to change your mech around every time you change it. Not just the first time(so what if it is off the shelf components, I have to move this cross member and relocate these fuel and coolant lines). However want to change your Omni's omni weapons with something off the shelf(in your invintory), that will be $7.50/hour and about an hour and a half. That is the difference between Omni and Standard mechs. Rightfully so.

I think the omni pod containing the weapon systems should cost on par with the standard mech mods, more even, but there should be an advantage, it is better tech. Ugly as sin for the most part, but better tech.

I think mech bay mods should be similar to TT rules, with changes for the genre, do what you want within the constraints of:
crit space
tonnage
weapon hardpoint layout(it is a good idea for a video game)

This does not mean it should not cost you your first born to do it, along with the ability to have more...every time you want to change it. The cost alone would reduce the amount of changes people make and increase the chassis variety on the battlefield, simply because it will encourage us to buy the chassis or variant that we have to mod the least to get what we want. At the least it would force people to buy 2 different hunchies for their ballistic variant and energy variant.

[PANZERBUNNY]

It's safe to say that people who want to stick with one variant or build they have created will be at a disadvantage because people will always be seeking out the weakness of the best "meta mech" and trying new things out.

[LesIzmore]

I must be a better tech than the OP , I am willing to make my Mech into what I want, not what the factory cheaped out building.

[garreth]

My solution is simple. Make two tiers of battle. Classic, and Open. In classic matches, you are required to use a stock Mech with known, IN print approved variants. in open matches. You can use any homebrew you want. You get put into matches with like Mechs. Classic, or homebrew. Simple fix.

[Birddog FAC]

Gorith, on 23 June 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

The general Idea is that it forces you and your team to weigh more carefully what you are bringing to the field. Also it gives each mech it's own feel rather than just being a "skin". Along with this comes the ability to identify a mech for scouting purposes and each mech having it's own set of weaknesses. It comes from the idea that doing well with what you are given is much harder than doing well with what you feel is the ideal setup.

i am fine with the weapon type restiction and mount location restriction but there should be no futher restriction... so if you want a PPC instad of an ML you should be able to make it happen if you can open up the tonnage needed.