60 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

pretty sure I covered the relevant ones, and even explained why i listed the possibility of ECM. Btw? CDC-3M, DMD-2D and AS7D-DC...know what they all have in common? No ECM, stock.

Yes, but that was sort of... an 'emergency fix', other mechs which should have likely had ECM following that principle since, haven't.

The chance of us getting another ECM Assault is also... unlikely, unless it explicitly has it stock and there isn't an alternative chasis to use.

Bront, on 21 September 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

My thoughts in another thread:

• KGC-000: two ballistics in both arms, two energy in the right torso, one missiles in the left torso, dual AMS
  
• KGC-0000: two ballistics in both arms, one energy in the Right Torso, three Missiles in the Left Torso
  
• KGC-010: ballistics in both arms, energy in both side-torsos, missiles in both side-torsos

Dual AMS seems to fit one of the 3 mechs, and since the 000 is star-league era, it's a good candidate, but it needs more than just 6 weapoon hardpoints, so inflate the Energy by 1. End result, works well as a brawler and can weather the LRM Rain as it approaches (slowly).


0000 doesn't get the second AMS or extra energy slot, so it gets 3 missile slots on the LT. Gives it reach with LRMs, or SRM Brawling, and cooler than the 000 but more ammo dependent.

Alternive to the 0000 is the 001 clan buster, which has 5 weapon hardpoints (it has 1 SSRM2 in each torso) by default, could offer 2 more in the arms, and has the missiles spread out. It could also have a higher engine cap since it's an XL mech by default, and it wouldn't have the larger missile hunch on the LT then. Not timeline correct, but might fit in well, particularly if it has some quirks that make up for having an XL (faster twist?)

010 works fine with no hardpoint growth. It's balanced with 6 hard points due to the spread. Maybe it has an increased arm range as it might get the lower arm actuators back.

I see the 000 and the 010 definately. Not sure if we'll get the 0000 or the 001, though the 001 would make some level of sense.

I can sorta see the 000 with twin AMS.
It'd be nice if it had 4B, 2E, 1M, 1AMS (8 total), just because I'd put 4 Machine Guns in it for a giggle.

The 0000 is a downgrade, so it should only have 1 AMS, and I think, the stock hardpoints 1E, 2B, 1M, 1AMS (5 total), with the STD300, STD Armour, STD Structure, etc.
The upside of this is, it would be the 'entry level' King Crab, significantly cheaper than the others.

Then the 010, because while the 001 would be nice - 3052 makes it seem less likely to me.
the 2E, 2B, 2M, 1AMS is nice too.

Though ultimately, we'll find out in 2-3 months!

[Bront]

Viktor Drake, on 21 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

However, it is still going to be a beast. Did a little theorycrafting and I came up with the following build:

2 AC/20s (6 tons ammo)
1 PPC
1 LRM10 (1 ton ammo)
300 Standard Engine
608 Armor

I'm thinking 4 MGs, a NARC, a TAG, and the largest engine I can fit in it.

It's good to be the King!

[Bishop Steiner]

Bront, on 21 September 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

My thoughts in another thread:

• KGC-000: two ballistics in both arms, two energy in the right torso, one missiles in the left torso, dual AMS
  
• KGC-0000: two ballistics in both arms, one energy in the Right Torso, three Missiles in the Left Torso
  
• KGC-010: ballistics in both arms, energy in both side-torsos, missiles in both side-torsos

Dual AMS seems to fit one of the 3 mechs, and since the 000 is star-league era, it's a good candidate, but it needs more than just 6 weapoon hardpoints, so inflate the Energy by 1. End result, works well as a brawler and can weather the LRM Rain as it approaches (slowly).


0000 doesn't get the second AMS or extra energy slot, so it gets 3 missile slots on the LT. Gives it reach with LRMs, or SRM Brawling, and cooler than the 000 but more ammo dependent.

Alternive to the 0000 is the 001 clan buster, which has 5 weapon hardpoints (it has 1 SSRM2 in each torso) by default, could offer 2 more in the arms, and has the missiles spread out. It could also have a higher engine cap since it's an XL mech by default, and it wouldn't have the larger missile hunch on the LT then. Not timeline correct, but might fit in well, particularly if it has some quirks that make up for having an XL (faster twist?)

010 works fine with no hardpoint growth. It's balanced with 6 hard points due to the spread. Maybe it has an increased arm range as it might get the lower arm actuators back.

I see the 000 and the 010 definately. Not sure if we'll get the 0000 or the 001, though the 001 would make some level of sense.

so far haven't all non hero dual AMS mechs been on chassis that already had one extant?

[Bront]

Ovion, on 21 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Yes, but that was sort of... an 'emergency fix', other mechs which should have likely had ECM following that principle since, haven't.

The chance of us getting another ECM Assault is also... unlikely, unless it explicitly has it stock and there isn't an alternative chasis to use.

I can sorta see the 000 with twin AMS.
It'd be nice if it had 4B, 2E, 1M, 1AMS (8 total), just because I'd put 4 Machine Guns in it for a giggle.

The 0000 is a downgrade, so it should only have 1 AMS, and I think, the stock hardpoints 1E, 2B, 1M, 1AMS (5 total), with the STD300, STD Armour, STD Structure, etc.
The upside of this is, it would be the 'entry level' King Crab, significantly cheaper than the others.

Then the 010, because while the 001 would be nice - 3052 makes it seem less likely to me.
the 2E, 2B, 2M, 1AMS is nice too.

Though ultimately, we'll find out in 2-3 months!

Just because it's a downgrade in tech, doesn't mean it needs to be blatently inferior.

All will have 1 AMS, we know that (Only IS mech without AMS is the X5 I think), I think you need to have some variety in the mechs though, which is what I proposed, and dual AMS is hardly OP for one variant, and I think not making it the missile inflated hardpoint variant means you've balanced them (dual AMS in missile mechs can be powerful, as they sit back and LRM from range while being somewhat immune to LRMs themselves)

[Ovion]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

so far haven't all non hero dual AMS mechs been on chassis that already had one extant?

Yes.
So far it's simply a case of +1AMS to all chasis (apart from the X5, and the Clan Mechs which are round-abouts).

Bront, on 21 September 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Just because it's a downgrade in tech, doesn't mean it needs to be blatently inferior.

All will have 1 AMS, we know that (Only IS mech without AMS is the X5 I think), I think you need to have some variety in the mechs though, which is what I proposed, and dual AMS is hardly OP for one variant, and I think not making it the missile inflated hardpoint variant means you've balanced them (dual AMS in missile mechs can be powerful, as they sit back and LRM from range while being somewhat immune to LRMs themselves)

Really, 5 hardpoints (4 weapons), when 2 of those weapons are AC20's, or another large ballistic~

Twin AC10s / LBX10s / AC20s, an (ER) Large (Pulse) Laser, and an SRM6 / LRM20 would be pretty damn nasty.

Edited by Ovion, 21 September 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Bront]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

so far haven't all non hero dual AMS mechs been on chassis that already had one extant?

I'm not 100% sure, and that does put some doubt into my theory. (Did the Firestarter S and Locust 3M come with AMS stock? I don't think so on the Firestarter)

Edit: Correct, the Locust, Firestarter, Thudnerbolt and Atlas all had 1 to start with.

Edited by Bront, 21 September 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Ovion]

Bront, on 21 September 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'm not 100% sure, and that does put some doubt into my theory. (Did the Firestarter S and Locust 3M come with AMS stock? I don't think so on the Firestarter)

Edit: Correct, the Locust, Firestarter, Thudnerbolt and Atlas all had 1 to start with.

heh, beat me to it as I was looking it up.
Yes, yes they did.

[Bront]

Either way, I hope we get 4B in the arms on at least 1 variant. Quad AC2s might be fun in a big boy mech (You'd have the HS to keep it cool, space for ammo, and the armor to dish out the damage), and quad UAC5s sounds downright scary. Dual AC20s could be fun too. Biggest issue it will have is Ghost Heat (thanks Boom-Jagers).

Keep in mind that it's quite possible this may end up being a mech you can't shove Endo-Steel in, which means it may have to give up 5 tons to the Atlas in some fashion. Need to play around with it a bit more.

A dual AC20, LPL, SRM6 build sounds promising.

[Bront]

Another thought to the hardpoints, if they do the 000, 001, and 010 (Look, binary!)

000 - Stock has 2B, 1E, 1M, likely will get 4B at the very least.
001 - Stock has 2B, 1E, 2M, may also get 4B since it's a retrofit of the 000, the 000 will need some kind of quirk.
010 - Stock has 2B, 2E, 2M, likely not getting the extra 2B, will have extra arm actuators, so better side to side range, seems balanced with the 001, less punch, can't use AC20s, but is more agile and gets an extra energy slot)

So, if they want 3 different models (the 0000 just seems like a bad idea, and they have tweaked the timeline a bit as far as mechs go anyway). They could balance the 000 with a balistics quirk, adding an extra AMS (I can dream, can't it I?), other quirks (twist, armor, whatever), or it's possible all KGCs will have some kind of ballistic quirk (like the Vindicator).

I mostly hope the 000 won't be the worst one due to hardpoints and no quirks (or a module quirk, bletch) because I assume that's likely the one we're getting as the freebie (though the 001 would be an option due to it being the clan buster, and I wouldn't even mind because free XL300 engine!)

[Strum Wealh]

MisterPlanetarian, on 20 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Going by this I'd Say the Hardpoints are:

4xB(looks like 2x Per pincer)
2xE(obviously slots for 2)
2xM(Toss up could be just 1)

MisterPlanetarian, on 20 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

Thats concept art for the Special version. It seems to be running with a stock loadout, 2x AC20, 1xLRM20 and 1xLarge Laser with room for 1 more.

The paint scheme corresponds to that of the canonical merc unit, "Greenburg's Godzillas" ("...favor a dark green paint scheme, sometimes accented with lighter green scales and the classic 'shark teeth' nose art...").

Given that the concept art shows 15 individual ports on that KGC, it's very likely just a normal KGC-000 or KGC-0000 rather than any sort of "special model".

[mithril coyote]

it is worth pointing out that in regards to the KGC-000b, being a royal design, is not only extinct but also completely unknown outside Comstar or the clans.. the Royals were the terran hegemony's "secret weapons", and their exact loadouts were top secret, usually designed to mimmic the standard star league designs externally. while rumors of alternate performance existed in universe, no one was aware of the difference, especially after the SLDF left with Kerensky. Comstar actively destroyed records and researchers during the 1st and 2nd succession wars to ensure knowledge of any royal variants was lost. (Comstar having kept the designs as its 'ace in the hole' for its own defense.. even after the comguard went public their small stockpile of royals were not employed, and were kept hidden from the comguard by the upper echelons, as they didn't fully trust Focht and the people they had recruited to fill out the comguards.)

the KGC-010 falls into a similar fate. it was also a royal design, and the hegemony took great care to disguise it's armament to hide the PPC's, and make it look less powerful than it was. unlike the -000b it's modifications could not be completely hidden, but it's exact specs were never obtained by the IS, comstar wiped out all records of it, and any surviving in comstar's stockpile were kept hidden from even the comguard.

so the only real variants available are the;
KGC-000
KGC-0000
KGC-001 clanbuster.

the clanbuster should be available because while it is listed as 3052, the modification work for it began in 3049! when comstar first met the clans. 3052 is just the battle of tukayidd, where the clanbuster's got their first major deployment.
but the modifications for it are perfectly within the IS power's capabilities, as are the theories behind it.

Edited by mithril coyote, 21 September 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

yeah, I think I threw a theory craft one together with a 325 std, 2 ac20, 6x ammo, ER large, LRM15 with 2x ammo. Armor was about 1.5 tons lighter though.

Yep there are quite a few options. Also depending on how XL friendly it ends up being (doubt it will be but hey you never know) you could really up the speed.

In any case, I think I kind of like yours better to be honest. Faster and with a more useful LRM. The extended range on the ER LL doesn't hurt either, especially on maps like Alpine.

Honestly I am really hoping for the KGC-010. 2 AC/10s and 2 PPCs would be sweet. Would have to ditch the SRMs for DHS though to run it. Maybe 2 AC/10s, 2 ER LLs and 2 Streak SRM2s to keep the lights off. Anyway, wish they would release all the variant info so someplay like Smurfy's could get them up on their site so we could theorycraft with ease.

[Bishop Steiner]

mithril coyote, on 21 September 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

it is worth pointing out that in regards to the KGC-000b, being a royal design, is not only extinct but also completely unknown outside Comstar or the clans.. the Royals were the terran hegemony's "secret weapons", and their exact loadouts were top secret, usually designed to mimmic the standard star league designs externally. while rumors of alternate performance existed in universe, no one was aware of the difference, especially after the SLDF left with Kerensky. Comstar actively destroyed records and researchers during the 1st and 2nd succession wars to ensure knowledge of any royal variants was lost. (Comstar having kept the designs as its 'ace in the hole' for its own defense.. even after the comguard went public their small stockpile of royals were not employed, and were kept hidden from the comguard by the upper echelons, as they didn't fully trust Focht and the people they had recruited to fill out the comguards.)

the KGC-010 falls into a similar fate. it was also a royal design, and the hegemony took great care to disguise it's armament to hide the PPC's, and make it look less powerful than it was. unlike the -000b it's modifications could not be completely hidden, but it's exact specs were never obtained by the IS, comstar wiped out all records of it, and any surviving in comstar's stockpile were kept hidden from even the comguard.

so the only real variants available are the;
KGC-000
KGC-0000
KGC-001 clanbuster.

the clanbuster should be available because while it is listed as 3052, the modification work for it began in 3049! when comstar first met the clans. 3052 is just the battle of tukayidd, where the clanbuster's got their first major deployment.
but the modifications for it are perfectly within the IS power's capabilities, as are the theories behind it.

point in fact, the -010 was a SLDF regular army Command Model. At no point has it ever been indicated it was a Royals.

It is however, supposedly extinct in the IS.

[PANZERKAT]

Mechs are supposed to be almost extinct in the IS, yet here we are.

[Bishop Steiner]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 21 September 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

Mechs are supposed to be almost extinct in the IS, yet here we are.

last I checked, the FedSuns, circa 3025, before the Tech Revival of the 30s and 40s, was sitting on 110 Battlemech regiments (courtesy Mechwarrior 1st Ed Sourcebook). Even if we were to (safely) assume most of these were "short" regiments, and not the full 108-124 of a full strength Mech regiment, that would be about 10,000 battlemechs....in the Federated Suns, alone.

The LyrCom fielded 75+ regiments, CapCon 60 regiments, DracCom 80 and the FWL, approximately 40. As of 3025. Since then, the CapCon forces did indeed dwindle, but the Lyran, Kuritan and Marik numbers all increased. That's around 30-35,000 battlemechs just in the armies of the House Lords, not counting a few thousand more in Independent Merc, Bandit and Periphery Lord hands.


Mind you, that is spread over 1700 star systems in the Inner Sphere alone, but still a pretty large number.

Doesn't sound that extinct, to me. Held together with duct tape, perhap, but not extinct. (Now Considering over 100,000 Archers alone had been constructed pre Succession War, the number had certainly dwindled)

[CycKath]

mithril coyote, on 21 September 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

the clanbuster should be available because while it is listed as 3052, the modification work for it began in 3049! when comstar first met the clans. 3052 is just the battle of tukayidd, where the clanbuster's got their first major deployment.
but the modifications for it are perfectly within the IS power's capabilities, as are the theories behind it.

While we have a couple of examples of earlier ComStar doing "close the gap with the Clans" refits such as the ER PPC packing Thorn N1 for example from 3051, the Tukayyid scenario pack is fairly explicit that the Clanbusters and the "appropriation" of the plans for Successor State refits like the 1M Orion were all rush jobs the Com Guards initiated after Focht and Waterly agreed that ComStar would have the face the Clans militarily, so at most from Janurary 3052 until May when the battle started.

That doesn't preclude a variant with similar hardpoints though.

[Johnny Reb]

Wintersdark, on 20 September 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Few, heavy hardpoints would be a way to go.

A real danger with the King Crab is totally obsoleting the Atlas. As such, I think the likelyhood of an ECM KC is pretty damn near zero.

Realistically, I think the first two variants Mr. Steiner posted above are highly likely - 2B/2B/1E/1M and a 1B/1B/2E/2M version, the third, though? I was digging through Sarna, and there's pretty much nothing else as viable options really, unless PGI goes quite off the wall for hardpoints - many of the listed variants are effectively the same from an MWO point of view

On the other hand, it's not like PGI has shied away from making flat out inferior or effectively identical variants before.

The two posted offer lots of good options, though.

Obviously, I'll want an AC40 and DualGauss pair, but I'd really like it if one of these sported 3x3 ballistics - see: JM6-DD, embiggened.

I'd love to play with a KC mounting a UAC5, AC5, and AC2 in each arm. The above versions would be more effective, yes, but this would be GLORIOUS DAKKA.

I highly doubt KC's will be XL friendly. They'll be wide mechs, and wide mechs means either instant CT death or vulnerable side torsos - has to be one or the other.



Now... a KC with 1B in each arm, and high mounted (shell mounted!) 2E in each torso would be freaking awesome. I'd love twin gauss and 6 ML's.

I would like 2 ac 20 with 2 er large in the high shell myself.

[Bront]

Ok, I think I just crafted an odd build with 4 AC2s, 1 ERLL, a Standard 350, 13 HS, FF, and Endo, and 9 tons of ammo.

I found a reason to use FF on a king crab. Maybe. (Still should be hot)

Using 4 ballistics is hard in an IS mech.

[Yiazmat]

I see it going in like this:

-000, standard variant. Less hard points, positive 'quirk' mobility
-0000, lower tech, more hard points, negative 'quirk' mobility
-010, c&c, ecm available (not stock), no hard point inflation, neutral 'quirk' mobility


Now for tin-foil-hat speculation!

Hero King Crab (no, not the pre-order, just a hero for later in December) 3 energy in each arm, 1 ballistic each side torso. Essentially, it's an IS Supernova (which was a clan copy of the king crab). This would give it a heavy laser payload with large ballistic backups. Possibly XL stock. Dual ac10's, four large lasers with 2 mediums? NOM NOM NOM!

[Chuck B]

I think its going to be the

000 with 4B 1E 2M

0000 with 6B 1E 1M

010 with 2B 4E 2M but with lower arm actuators (only 9 open crits the the arms)

Also I like Alex's concept it reminds me of the OLD Japanese Battletech Mech images.

Here is a link to the majority or the images. http://jubei.ceyah.o.../~jandrese/jbt/

I sort of wish they had used some of these to replace the unseen images they lost, but oh well.
Though some of the images were used in the solaris box set.