279 replies to this topic

[Molossian Dog]

There is so much wrong in this thread. I don´t have the time to adress all the misconceptions. Just one point:

---

As long as the CER-Mlaser does more damage every split second than the M-Laser I will not even start to ponder about "overnerfed."
(Even if leaving the longer range aside. Leaving the chassis advantages -FF, Endo, DHS, magic engine- aside that lets you get MORE of them.)

The whole "IS has FLD-PP, the Clans DPS" train of thought is ludicrous in this light.

---

You don´t need FLD if you do more damage every split second.

This is not even debatable. You can miss with a good chunk of your beam or pour it into the ground/hillside and still do more damage. That is what more damage every split second means.
Longer burn time means nothing. The damage in those 0,25 secs is just another bonus on top of a generally better performance.

How that works with the mantra "Clan weapons aren´t OP, they need more skill" I cannot even imagine.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 21 September 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[Hoax415]

I just want to say thanks to Molossian, Crunk, Wrench, Kin3ticX and of course Adiuvo (who's credibility should be unquestioned so I see Walker and others just ignore his posts).

I don't know how you guys can stand to participate in these threads anymore.

Again I would suggest to everyone on both sides of this "debate" to suggest to Russ/PGI that they need to run a Clan vs IS test along these lines:
-Challenge Saturday
-Group Queue will be IS vs Clan

Challenge details:
X wins to complete challenge for X prize.
Group size is minimum 4 no maximum.
Groups obviously will have to be pure IS or pure Clan.

Data we would get:
-Group queue data instead of solo queue pubbing with all its vagaries.
-Data where people are more compelled to tryhard because of the challenge. This along with it being group queue should reduce the **** builds, **** mechs, trials etc. noise in the dataset.
-Data on whether more people run IS teams or Clan teams. This tells us what the perception of balance is with the so called "silent majority".

I don't think PGI wants to run this test yet because the results would be damning of how out of whack the balance on clan mechs has been for months because before the XL change they would probably post a result closer to that 90% rate than the new 73% rate. But that's my prediction only and it would be nice to have actual facts in this matter.

Edited by Hoax415, 21 September 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[Astrocanis]

Mystere, on 20 September 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Bad testing methodology? Unless of course the whole objective was to measure the performance of Joe Schmoe.

(Should a crop duster pilot be used to compare the French Rafale to the Russian SU-27?)

Given that the crop duster pilot is probably less disciplined and a generally better pilot, it's a tossup.

[oldradagast]

Fire and Salt, on 20 September 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Clans aren't OP.

The clan lights are worse than IS lights.

The nova has terrible free tonnage and its slow.

The summoner also has terrible free tonnage.

The war hawk has 20 non removable heatsinks, and ferro instead of endo, which limits the builds.




There are 3 clan mech that are completely responsible for any balance issues.
Yet, they Nerf the weapons instead of the problem chassis.

The dire wolf was fine too, until they shrunk the CT. Not sure why that was done. I liked it when it was easy to kill, and easy to kill with.

The timberwolf should get hard points for the JJs, so if you equip an S left torso, you can add 2 jus to the left torso only. This would limit some builds and it would be a good thing. Kit fox should get the same treatment for consistency, but it would barely hurt the kit fox because it has 4 available JJ omnipods.

The stormcrow is also great, but it loses side torsos a lot. I think that a penalty for losing a side torso will hurt the stormcrow alot.

Basically, this.

Clans win more often than IS because a handful of Clan mechs - Timberwolf and Stormcrow are stupidly good. And Dire Wolves are very good at specific things, so they can sometimes "auto-win" encounters.

So, check out the Stormcrown and Timberwolf and see what's up with them. Are they too good? Are there hitbox issues - supposedly, both of them have wonky hitboxes. You get the idea. Don't "fix" the Clans by nerfing something they ALL use, such as weapons.

I'm not saying Clans are NOT overly powerful, but nerfing the weapons isn't really the solution. Check out which mechs are dominating - they are not all equal.

Edited by oldradagast, 21 September 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

oldradagast, on 21 September 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

...
I'm not saying Clans are NOT overly powerful, but nerfing the weapons isn't really the solution. Check out which mechs are dominating - they are not all equal.

As are the IS chassis. See Trebuchet vs Shadowhawk.

I agree that there are huge differences between the good and bad clan chassis. I also agree that Stormcrows and Timberderps need nerfing more than Adders.

But the same applies to the IS side as well. In fact it did already. Remember the loads of Highlanders and Victors? Where are they now? There are very bad Clan Mechs, given. But there are tons of bad IS ones too.

Maybe you could argue that so far the Clans had so few Mech types that they would be at a disadvantage in CW. But they are bound to get new chassis very soon. People are spending money on it as we speak. Some of them are bound to be good, some bad. As usual.

I don´t get how having good as well as bad chassis is somehow a mitigating factor with the Clans but not the IS.

The weapon/crit/ton and damage/dps advantages have nothing to do with the choice of chassis.

[Fire and Salt]

Molossian Dog, on 22 September 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

But the same applies to the IS side as well. In fact it did already. Remember the loads of Highlanders and Victors? Where are they now? There are very bad Clan Mechs, given. But there are tons of bad IS ones too.

Here's the problem:

When the Victor was OP, they nerfed its handing, so it feels like an atlas even though its barely bigger than a heavy.

When the highlander was the pop tart king, they gave special JJ nerfs that only applied to the highlander.

(BTW, I think both the HGN and VTR should be un-nerfed now that the global JJ change made pop sniping no longer dominant, but that's besides the point)



Now, the timberwolf and stormcrow are dominating, and in response, they Nerf the clan weapons - but not one chassis specific Nerf for the timberwolf or stormcrow.

The dire wolf - they actually buffed it with a hit box change.



They need to Nerf the TBR like they did the VTR and stop nerfing all of the weapons.


The kitfox, adder, nova, and summoner definitely do not need nerfs.
The warhawk is only excessively powerful when used as a missile boat...(which makes me sad) But even the pretty baby can LRM boat so I'm not impressed.

Really its the timberwolf that needs the Nerf bat, with a little stormcrow nerfing.

I don't really care about the dire... Too slow. Although it may be the king of that base defense mode I've been hearing about, since it sounds like the defenders would basically be stationary anyways..

Edited by Fire and Salt, 22 September 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Regarding to the JJ-Nerf i can only say that i would have done the opposite - make JJs that strong that any use pushes you out of cover!

Edited by Thorqemada, 22 September 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[Gyrok]

stjobe, on 20 September 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

So how do you explain the latest round of IS vs Clan testing then? You know, the one in which Clans still won 73% of matches?

Pilot skill, Clans had higher Elo through ALL of those matches. Period.

[Johnny Z]

At the topic title HAHAHAHAHA

[Lily from animove]

Molossian Dog, on 21 September 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

There is so much wrong in this thread. I don´t have the time to adress all the misconceptions. Just one point:

---

As long as the CER-Mlaser does more damage every split second than the M-Laser I will not even start to ponder about "overnerfed."
(Even if leaving the longer range aside. Leaving the chassis advantages -FF, Endo, DHS, magic engine- aside that lets you get MORE of them.)

The whole "IS has FLD-PP, the Clans DPS" train of thought is ludicrous in this light.

---

You don´t need FLD if you do more damage every split second.

This is not even debatable. You can miss with a good chunk of your beam or pour it into the ground/hillside and still do more damage. That is what more damage every split second means.
Longer burn time means nothing. The damage in those 0,25 secs is just another bonus on top of a generally better performance.

How that works with the mantra "Clan weapons aren´t OP, they need more skill" I cannot even imagine.

Wrong way to undertsand that, how many fld/heta does Clan throw out?

Its right dmage per tic is higher, but a clanmech reaches heat cap faster and this sufficiently drops is dps at vital mech parts. While the IS mech can still fire and fire and fire. I was surpeised after all this time going back for some matches to my phract and man, the heatscale feels like being endless. you can fire and fire and fire and fire, while a clanners has just a few momeents at the beginnign bfore he runs into heat issues.

so try to calculate on a mech of 40 heat treshold and with 14DHS who can land more FLP damage to the right parts, befor he reaches heatcap with 4 CERML vs 4 ISML

Edited by Lily from animove, 22 September 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[Moonlander]

While Clan mech's may not be doing the type of damage they have in the past, I don't feel they are weak in the least. I often feel they're still just as powerful. Then again, my inexperience with Clan mech's before their nerfs may attribute to my opinion. I honestly always feel I'm more powerful in my Clan mech's when going toe to toe with an IS mech of the same weight class. Then again, when I go toe to toe in my Atlas against a Dire, I usually feel I have the upper hand. Same goes for IS light vs Clan light.

I dunno... it's early and I'm tired... Going back to bed!

[DarthPeanut]

OP...



Clans are still very strong after the changes. Now clans pilots just have to consider their heat management a little more carefully.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 22 September 2014 - 06:34 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Hey, look at the bright side, the clan weapons won't see any more nerfs. The devs said the nerfing is done.

[Koniving]

Mcgral18, on 21 September 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I say it's because there isn't any good testing method involved. MM also seems fairly poor during these events, since it splits the queue in half. Open ALL the release valves! After 5 minutes.

IS or Clan, this team was stomped, not due to OP Clans, but by bad mechs and bad players. You need private match testing with 24 competent players to actually get credible testing.

Agreed.

IS mechs can pretty much slaughter anything in good hands with good design. The problem is lots of IS meta designs are looking for heavy impact damage, burst damage. With long delays in which a Clan mech will kill them. This gives Clan mechs LOTS of time to cool off.

That's just plain god damn stupid!

What you do is you give them NO time with superior IS heat efficient weaponry.




In essence, you play your IS mech like a Clan mech, and you slaughter Clan mechs because the IS mechs, when designed as heat efficient DPS brawlers, can heavily outperform and slaughter Clan mechs.

Just attack and never stop moving. Engage one enemy at a time, go for the stragglers or, in the case above, I attacked five mechs at once from behind at 400 meters. The first one I got before anyone realized what was going on by coring into the backside of an Atlas.

Immediately upon its death, a Timber Wolf reacted and was quickly dispatched (went for the legs).

Following that was a Nova who had reacted at the same time. The excessive heat nerfs made his mech virtually unusable and he only had 4 ER mediums and 2 medium pulses. Overheated like nothing and his damage spread heavily as I bunny hopped him into a corner and ripped him apart shoulder from shoulder. He lost both shoulders and a leg from my onslaught.

Next, a twin AC/20 Jagermech turned and saw me, slamming a shot into my ballistic arm. I started in on him. He had yellow armor all over with a tinge of yellowish orange on the RT. I laid into it. (These bams are his damage to me with his overpowered super weapons, damn one shot AC/20s) BAM! CT. He kept torso twisting, making this much harder. BAM! Left leg (he wasn't aiming for it, but bunny hop)! Little guy wouldn't stand still! BAM! CT stripped! But he went down.

Coming around the corner, I found a Gauss Jagermech. Only now has anyone grown any damn balls to start moving forward from the huddle-pit they formed because they were pinned. Some other mechs are still fighting, but my attention settles on the Gauss Jager. Whoosh! Left torso, stripped! (2 Gauss + 4 ML) Incoming lasers! Bunny hop! Tore into his side torso. Ripped away at it, destroyed it, victo---whaT? Standard engine! ZOMG! Whoosh! LT red, critical! Lasers! Bunny hop! Jumped over him (helped that he was going downhill and I was going uphill with an angle to kinda go around one another), turned and though he ripped off my cannon arm with his next shot, I took him out.

My weapons? 1 LBX. 1 AC/5. 3 Streaks. 2 ML. Heatsinks and ammo with 2 JJs.

Incredible ease.
Based on this design, which was 3 ML, 2 Streaks, 1 LBX and 1 AC/2.


Visual demonstrations. Skip to 6:30


Skip to 3:18 where multiple groups introduce themselves. 5 in for the fight to start.


Notice that heat has almost no meaning to this style of build. None at all. Allowing it to constantly move when other mechs can't. What happens when you rush while the enemy is very heated? They die. Clans are always hotter than IS. And lets face it, they don't carry a sufficient enough amount of heatsinks. 34% heat efficiency is usually good enough for the typical player. I strive for 50% bare minimum, 60+ even better. This doesn't just mean better cooling but because of the B.S. way the game works, far more maximum heat allowed. Meaning I can run almost eternally while still laying down some kind of fire and cool off even when near shutdown.

This is how you kill Clanners.

These small pulses are 3.4 heat each. An IS medium laser is supposed to be 3 heat each. Imagine how much more efficient IS combat would be with the proper, canon heat values on IS medium and small lasers, even against pre-nerf Clan medium and small lasers. Said Clan nerfs would never have been necessary (to small and medium class Clan laser heat; the ones to range and Clan large class damage were necessary as they exceeded canon values.)

It's easy!

But, as for the balancing being overdone? Oh definitely. The problem was that Clanners had higher than canon weapon ranges and higher than canon damages for the ER Large and Large Pulse. Having the LONGEST RANGE WEAPONS BE THE COLDEST AND MOST HEAT EFFICIENT was also really stupid...They are NOT supposed to be heat efficient at all. At best, Clan ER Large is supposed to be LESS than 1 damage per 1 heat. Large Pulse is supposed to be 1 damage to 1 heat. This hugely offsets their ranges, giving the IS a chance.

Now, the other issue is that IS weapons are too hot. Specifically small and medium lasers; the weapons that Battletech intended for players to boat easily. Large lasers are too hot (or they are supposed to be), thus not easily boated. IS Large Laser does 8 damage for 8 heat in canon. Not very efficient but good range. But medium lasers? 3 heat each for 5 damage? That is super efficient.

But what do we have? 4 heat for 5 damage. ....Why?

I have a new signature link.
Where Clan balancing went wrong. Should make a good read for anyone here.

Feel free to even quote it (along with Russ or Nikolai or Paul or whoever might be listening to balance suggestions so that they might see it). Paul's pretty busy though and Russ said he was taking over balance until CW is up.

Edited by Koniving, 22 September 2014 - 06:52 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Ok, before clan tech came out I ran a standard engine in my heavy mech. Since then I have been forced to switch to an XL egnine, literally forced. Clan weapons weigh less and take up less slots, as well their heat sinks take up less slots.

Without an XL engine in my heavy, clan lights had more firepower and Im not joking. Clan medium lasers have the range of large lasers and do more damage etc.

So now with an XL engine my heavy mech has more firepower to compete a little better and moves slightly faster to survive better.

When my mech goes down, its the same thing EVERY SINGLE TIME, SIDE TORSO GONE MECH WRECKED. EVERY TIME.

So I giggle at the topic title, literally and not in a healthy way.

Actually trying to be funny and dramatic here, but I will laugh at every topic complaining about the XL engines balance.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 September 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[Phashe]

80% of made-up statistics are incorrect 60% of the time. ;-)

Make clans SUFFER when they loose a side torso ( 1/3rd speed & heat penalties). Then I am golden with balance. All else ok.

[Johnny Z]

Phashe, on 22 September 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

80% of made-up statistics are incorrect 60% of the time. ;-)

Make clans SUFFER when they loose a side torso ( 1/3rd speed & heat penalties). Then I am golden with balance. All else ok.

So you think a Clan ERLL having more damage, more range and weighs less than a IS ERLL is balanced? Some say it has better heat efficiency also.

Think that a Clan heat sink taking up a third less space than a IS heat sink is balanced?

I could go on and on about the inbalances.

I agree the balance is closer and there are several factors going on here, but there is a long way to go yet.

By the way, this topic is a nice change from the "Clan mechs are supposed to be way better than the IS mechs" that usually explains the inbalances.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 September 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Molossian Dog, on 21 September 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

There is so much wrong in this thread. I don´t have the time to adress all the misconceptions. Just one point:

---

As long as the CER-Mlaser does more damage every split second than the M-Laser I will not even start to ponder about "overnerfed."
(Even if leaving the longer range aside. Leaving the chassis advantages -FF, Endo, DHS, magic engine- aside that lets you get MORE of them.)

The whole "IS has FLD-PP, the Clans DPS" train of thought is ludicrous in this light.

---

You don´t need FLD if you do more damage every split second.

This is not even debatable. You can miss with a good chunk of your beam or pour it into the ground/hillside and still do more damage. That is what more damage every split second means.
Longer burn time means nothing. The damage in those 0,25 secs is just another bonus on top of a generally better performance.

How that works with the mantra "Clan weapons aren´t OP, they need more skill" I cannot even imagine.

That's why we're saying the IS ML should have it's heat brought back to 3 instead of 4. One of them is almost twice as hot as the other, for a minuscule increase in damage. It's better to actually read the numbers than just whine incessantly without knowing the mechanics.

Right now C-ERML is 0.40 damage per second higher than IS ML, for 0.40 heat per second more than the IS ML.

With the IS ML brought back to it's proper heat level of 3, instead of the current 4. It's going to be a 0.40 dps increase for 0.65 hps. That can bring the weapons more in line in that aspect.

Hoax415, on 21 September 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

I just want to say thanks to Molossian, Crunk, Wrench, Kin3ticX and of course Adiuvo (who's credibility should be unquestioned so I see Walker and others just ignore his posts).

I responded to every one of his posts, he's the one that argued a point with me and then moved on. Please don't make claims about people without actually reading the thread.

Also, his credibility shouldn't be questioned when he spends almost all of his time in the group queue, while we're in both queues? In a debate that had the PuG queue as a component? He's also in the top tier, the game is very different for him than it is for some of us. Just like it's extremely different between the mid tier players and the bottom rung players.

Again, he's representing his tier of the game, where people are a lot less likely to be stupid, while the lower tiers can afford many mistakes, and afford to run entire teams of non-comp mechs. Or even ECM. (Last night I was with a group of new players. out of the 12 mechs on my team, I was the only ECM mech for the team for 90% of the matches, it was a nightmare running into teams with 4+ ECM mechs, while I was the only one providing ECM cover for people that still couln't grasp how cover works.)

I have no problem with his opinions and his thoughts on the game, they're not wrong, but they're not 100% right either. They are for his tier, not the others. Also, competitive is still very different from casual. These are very different things that you are trying to compare here.

Hoax415, on 21 September 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Again I would suggest to everyone on both sides of this "debate" to suggest to Russ/PGI that they need to run a Clan vs IS test along these lines:
-Challenge Saturday
-Group Queue will be IS vs Clan

Challenge details:
X wins to complete challenge for X prize.
Group size is minimum 4 no maximum.
Groups obviously will have to be pure IS or pure Clan.

Queue all of the "my group is too small and we get fed to the larger groups" (maybe fixed groups of 4 only? That way each team is 3 premades, and the group queue is locked into groups of 4 only.)
Or better yet: What about the groups that ran mix? (A Better solution would be to lock the queue into IS Vs. Clan, before locking the groups)
Or, the good players for X side finished the challenge early and went back to regular queue. (Lock the queues, to prevent that)

Hoax415, on 21 September 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Data we would get:
-Group queue data instead of solo queue pubbing with all its vagaries.
-Data where people are more compelled to tryhard because of the challenge. This along with it being group queue should reduce the **** builds, **** mechs, trials etc. noise in the dataset.
-Data on whether more people run IS teams or Clan teams. This tells us what the perception of balance is with the so called "silent majority".

I would rather it wasn't the challenge, because once they win the challenge there is no need to really try hard. You need an incentive that keeps them playing for the duration of the test (could be a few days long maybe?) Something like a tourney, or a match win farm fest, like the faction war event? (Still laugh at the fact that the lone wolves won that one)


However, all of these tests shouldn't be done now. They should be done after the quirk passes for both sides, and after they bring down the IS lasers heat back to where they should be. Possibly adjust the burn times more on the C-lasers as well.

---

This is to clarify my position:

I'm not saying clan tech is balanced right now. I'm saying that most people in this thread are wrong. They're thinking "it's too powerful, nerf it". Which is the wrong course of action. First of all, it's not THAT powerful, second of all, what should be done is buffing and tweaking the IS tech to where it's on equal footing. IS tech has had some egregiously unnecessary nerfs done to it over the years, and it's time to start removing/tweaking some of them.

The solution isn't nerfing everything without any proper thought or understanding. No, it's fixing what is now broken. When IS tech was competing just against IS tech some stuff had to be nerfed at the time to keep it balanced (it didn't, just made pulse lasers more useless, and made the ML a bit annoying to use, but still ton for ton the best DoT weapon in the game, at the time)

Now, bring back the proper stats for these lasers, and you have proper contenders with clan tech. Adjust the burn times as well.

Here's an example of what an IS ML should look like: (Next to it is the current C-ERML)

IS ML: C-ERML

Damage: 5 7

Heat: 3 6

Cooldown: 2.85 3.00

Range: 270 400

Max: 540 800

Slots: 1 1

Tons: 1 1

Duration: 0.85 1.25

DpS: 1.35 1.65

HpS: 0.81 1.41

Just comparing those stats to the current clan ER-ML already bridges the gap, and makes the weapons comparable, without losing their flavors. Instead of having a 2 second burn time on the C-ER ML, buff the overly-nerfed IS ML instead.

Couple those suggested changes to the IS ML, with some proper tweaking of the C-ERML, and you've got 2 weapons that have a sense of balance between them.

I hope this explains somewhat, where I'm coming from.

[Hoax415]

Fire and Salt, on 22 September 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Here's the problem:

When the Victor was OP, they nerfed its handing, so it feels like an atlas even though its barely bigger than a heavy.

When the highlander was the pop tart king, they gave special JJ nerfs that only applied to the highlander.

Now, the timberwolf and stormcrow are dominating, and in response, they Nerf the clan weapons - but not one chassis specific Nerf for the timberwolf or stormcrow.

They need to Nerf the TBR like they did the VTR and stop nerfing all of the weapons.

Who are you disagreeing with? The OP is claiming that clan mechs are overnerfed. They are not. The clan weapon nerfs are stated to be finished. Nobody saying "clan isn't UP, this thread is a joke" has stated that more across the board weapon nerfs are needed in this thread. Find me a quote if they have I haven't seen it. You are arguing with a total strawman.

Therefore the reasonable question is will the SMN with Clan XL change be much worse than the CTF?

We could have a reasonable thread on that. But instead we get the boards clogged with this type of garbage. People with obvious bias that blinds them making arguments devoid of any facts to support what they want to be true.

Clan weapons except probably ERML seem close enough to balanced in light of all the heat nerfs which was how PGI opted to try to obtain balance so they could leave them with the signature range/damage/crit space/weight advantages.

Gyrok, on 22 September 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Pilot skill, Clans had higher Elo through ALL of those matches. Period.

You don't understand how this works do you.

PGI knows what a winrate should be on average based on elo difference. They have infinite data of mixed clan/is teams to go over and say "if the elo difference is 100 the higher elo team wins X% of the time, if the difference is 500 the higher elo team wins Y% and if the elo difference is 750 the higher elo team wins Z% of the time".

X < Y < Z

They know those numbers. If they don't know them they can get them quickly enough.

So they run the Clan vs IS test. Clan teams over the entire test are on average 100 elo higher is what they have told us.

PGI can see that 73% winrate was much much higher than you would see with the same elo differences in mixed IS/Clan games.

For instance if normally the winrate for +100 elo is 67%? Then the test would have suggested solid balance. Because 67 and 73 are fairly close to each other you see?

If normally the winrate for +100 is 53%? We have a problem.

Your post like so many others makes it seem you suffer from the misguided impression that any data from games with unequal team elo has no value.

That's patently false and its getting quite tiresome to see it repeatedly over and over in this whine threads as if it were gospel.

Edited by Hoax415, 22 September 2014 - 07:43 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Johnny Z, on 22 September 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

So you think a Clan ERLL having more damage, more range and weighs less than a IS ERLL is balanced? Some say it has better heat efficiency also.

Think that a Clan heat sink taking up a third less space than a IS heat sink is balanced?

I could go on and on about the inbalances.

I agree the balance is closer and there are several factors going on here, but there is a long way to go yet.

By the way, this topic is a nice change from the "Clan mechs are supposed to be way better than the IS mechs" that usually explains the inbalances.

Clan ERLL:
Heat per second: 2.06

IS ERLL:
Heat per Second: 1.78
Not more heat efficient.


As for balancing them, that's not that difficult, it's something along the lines of what I suggested for the IS ML. Dial down the heat, and adjust burn times, and you have comparable weapons.

The trade off is that the gun is heavier, but colder to run, with faster firing. While the Clan one is lighter, burns for longer, and generates more heat, while having more range.

As for the heatsinks, clan weapons generate more heat. So when you get a Nova with 6 ERMLs, and 18 DHS, next to a Hunchie with 6 MLs and 18 DHS, the Hunchie is cooling A LOT faster.


As for all of the idiots that keep spouting "Clan is supposed to be OP DUrr", I just wish they would stop posting that on the forums, in threads that can actually talk about balance, because all those guys care about is having OP mechs that can help them win. They're idiots who don't even know the lore behind why clan tech was supposedly OP. (most IS mechs were SHS, no Endo, and no FF, with big STD engines, and clans had the pod system, meaning they can fully repair a mech in a couple of days, while the IS had to take weeks/months to repair a mech, with a few more factors added here and there, and now you know why clan tech was "OP")