gotta say, as of late with the changes to the game that the boars head is an underwhelming hero mech, unable to boat properly due to heat.
the XL engine it comes stock with lets it boat and deals with heat, but makes it an easy kill.
any chance the BH can get some quirks to help it be a lethal assault rather than a substandard?
BTW before anyone gets in my face about how i'm not piloting it right, i've had many 700-900 damage matches.. but if i'm face down with a victor or a Direwhale in my BH.. i'll usually get torn apart too easily, compared to my DDC or even my D.
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Boars Head
Started by The Dreaded Baron B Killer, Sep 21 2014 11:07 AM
45 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:12 AM
BaronBastardKiller, on 21 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:
gotta say, as of late with the changes to the game that the boars head is an underwhelming hero mech, unable to boat properly due to heat.
the XL engine it comes stock with lets it boat and deals with heat, but makes it an easy kill.
any chance the BH can get some quirks to help it be a lethal assault rather than a substandard?
BTW before anyone gets in my face about how i'm not piloting it right, i've had many 700-900 damage matches.. but if i'm face down with a victor or a Direwhale in my BH.. i'll usually get torn apart too easily, compared to my DDC or even my D.
the XL engine it comes stock with lets it boat and deals with heat, but makes it an easy kill.
any chance the BH can get some quirks to help it be a lethal assault rather than a substandard?
BTW before anyone gets in my face about how i'm not piloting it right, i've had many 700-900 damage matches.. but if i'm face down with a victor or a Direwhale in my BH.. i'll usually get torn apart too easily, compared to my DDC or even my D.
Then don't go face to face, use your superior speed to out maneuver it
They don't even have lower arm actuators
My BH tore apart a DW just last night
Close in and flank
Edited by Destructicus, 21 September 2014 - 11:12 AM.
#3
Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:13 AM
It's not "as of late with changes to the game" - the Boars Head was always somewhat meh due to energy weapons + MWO's heat system just not playing nice together. You just can't sufficiently boat energy weapons to have them work well.
#4
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:20 AM
Wintersdark, on 21 September 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:
It's not "as of late with changes to the game" - the Boars Head was always somewhat meh due to energy weapons + MWO's heat system just not playing nice together. You just can't sufficiently boat energy weapons to have them work well.
THIS.
Boars Head has always been second tier.
Lack of enough missile slots, plus the Atlases penchant for losing torsos anyhow, leave it mediocre, at best, against any decent comp level.
Heh. the TROLL'S HEAD
Go in, face tank, NARC stuff and die. Makes it more useful to the team than 90% of Boar's Heads I see on the field.
#5
Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:21 AM
Destructicus, on 21 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:
Then don't go face to face, use your superior speed to out maneuver it
They don't even have lower arm actuators
My BH tore apart a DW just last night
Close in and flank
They don't even have lower arm actuators
My BH tore apart a DW just last night
Close in and flank
They can have LAA's, but they don't really need them vs. an Atlas; it's just not fast enough to exploit that.
I'm not saying the DWF is OP - it's very vulnerable vs. faster mechs, but what it is is a stone cold assault killer.
Assuming relatively competent pilots of relatively equal skill (relatively competent is important: They need to know where they should be aiming, not spraying and praying center mass) a DWF with an even average build should flat out ruin any Atlas with an XL. The heat system impairs the BH's damage output too severely, while a DWF can have numerous low heat autocannons/gauss supporting energy weapons, and the BH can't move fast enough to stay out of the DWF's firing arcs (even if he doesn't have a LAA).
In my DWF's - with lots of matches, at moderately high Elo - I don't have trouble keeping anyone under 100kph in my firing arcs enough of the time to not lose noticable damage output. A Boar's Head is huge, even with an XL400 he's only moving at 71kph tweaked. That's just slow. Fast for an Atlas, but not even fast for a Heavy.
#6
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:24 AM
Yeah whatever. It must not mesh with your playstyle. Last match I ran in mine on crimson I killed a whole lance and assisted with 3 others before going down. My kills were A TBR I won a brawl dual with, an Atlas D, some medium that showed himself at 100M at a very wrong time, and a Stalker. I almost killed another TBR before he scooted away with red showing and medium team mate persued for the kill, and then some other two I dont recall, likely smaller mechs.
Change to a STD, and not a 400. I ran a 375, 6ML and an AC20 with I think 3 tons ammo. I usually run out of ammo. Doresnt matter, twenty 50 point alpha strikes is enough to say I did my part, and having 30 point ML alpha for the rest of the match is nothing to sneeze at.
My only thing with the mech compared to other Atlas, especially with this loadout, but with any really, is if you lose the RT you are suddenly armed like a light mech. At that point you stick your dmg when you can but basically go into full on tank/distract/wingman mode.
The speed doesnt seem like much, but it is enough on many of the maps that if you are within a reasonable distance of your team you can movce to respond pretty well(I think it is like 65kph after tweak, I would have to go look though) compared to other atlas, especially say a DDC with the normal SRM6/AC20 combo.
My D and RS have bigger alphas. Nigther one of them run any cooler in a brawl though unless I chainfire stuff, but my RS does have longer range then the BH.
If you want it to be a DDC, it wont. If you want to use all the hardpoints, it will play like a DDC with more heat issues and no ECM. Or an RS loaded to the max but with less range. Or an RS with same range but even worse heat(more LL instead of ML or something). I think this might be the only Atlas, or even 100 ton mech we will see that skipping a hardpoint or two is beneficial to the end result. Sometimes, les is more.
But eh, I know there are quite a few that dont care for it. I like mine.
Change to a STD, and not a 400. I ran a 375, 6ML and an AC20 with I think 3 tons ammo. I usually run out of ammo. Doresnt matter, twenty 50 point alpha strikes is enough to say I did my part, and having 30 point ML alpha for the rest of the match is nothing to sneeze at.
My only thing with the mech compared to other Atlas, especially with this loadout, but with any really, is if you lose the RT you are suddenly armed like a light mech. At that point you stick your dmg when you can but basically go into full on tank/distract/wingman mode.
The speed doesnt seem like much, but it is enough on many of the maps that if you are within a reasonable distance of your team you can movce to respond pretty well(I think it is like 65kph after tweak, I would have to go look though) compared to other atlas, especially say a DDC with the normal SRM6/AC20 combo.
My D and RS have bigger alphas. Nigther one of them run any cooler in a brawl though unless I chainfire stuff, but my RS does have longer range then the BH.
If you want it to be a DDC, it wont. If you want to use all the hardpoints, it will play like a DDC with more heat issues and no ECM. Or an RS loaded to the max but with less range. Or an RS with same range but even worse heat(more LL instead of ML or something). I think this might be the only Atlas, or even 100 ton mech we will see that skipping a hardpoint or two is beneficial to the end result. Sometimes, les is more.
But eh, I know there are quite a few that dont care for it. I like mine.
#7
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:26 AM
Boars head is my favorite IS mech.
My build:
2LL
4medium lasers
AC 20
Tons of heatsinks and a standard engine that moves him well over 60kph.
Always managed to do tons of damage in him with a nice volley of lasers and ac20. He has the heat sinks to do full two alphas and not shut down. He will core most any mech heavy and under and for the assaults he has the speed to get himself out of trouble asap.
My build:
2LL
4medium lasers
AC 20
Tons of heatsinks and a standard engine that moves him well over 60kph.
Always managed to do tons of damage in him with a nice volley of lasers and ac20. He has the heat sinks to do full two alphas and not shut down. He will core most any mech heavy and under and for the assaults he has the speed to get himself out of trouble asap.
Edited by Blueduck, 21 September 2014 - 11:28 AM.
#8
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:27 AM
Wintersdark, on 21 September 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:
They can have LAA's, but they don't really need them vs. an Atlas; it's just not fast enough to exploit that.
I'm not saying the DWF is OP - it's very vulnerable vs. faster mechs, but what it is is a stone cold assault killer.
Assuming relatively competent pilots of relatively equal skill (relatively competent is important: They need to know where they should be aiming, not spraying and praying center mass) a DWF with an even average build should flat out ruin any Atlas with an XL. The heat system impairs the BH's damage output too severely, while a DWF can have numerous low heat autocannons/gauss supporting energy weapons, and the BH can't move fast enough to stay out of the DWF's firing arcs (even if he doesn't have a LAA).
In my DWF's - with lots of matches, at moderately high Elo - I don't have trouble keeping anyone under 100kph in my firing arcs enough of the time to not lose noticable damage output. A Boar's Head is huge, even with an XL400 he's only moving at 71kph tweaked. That's just slow. Fast for an Atlas, but not even fast for a Heavy.
I'm not saying the DWF is OP - it's very vulnerable vs. faster mechs, but what it is is a stone cold assault killer.
Assuming relatively competent pilots of relatively equal skill (relatively competent is important: They need to know where they should be aiming, not spraying and praying center mass) a DWF with an even average build should flat out ruin any Atlas with an XL. The heat system impairs the BH's damage output too severely, while a DWF can have numerous low heat autocannons/gauss supporting energy weapons, and the BH can't move fast enough to stay out of the DWF's firing arcs (even if he doesn't have a LAA).
In my DWF's - with lots of matches, at moderately high Elo - I don't have trouble keeping anyone under 100kph in my firing arcs enough of the time to not lose noticable damage output. A Boar's Head is huge, even with an XL400 he's only moving at 71kph tweaked. That's just slow. Fast for an Atlas, but not even fast for a Heavy.
I know what you're saying, I'm just OP shouldn't try to go toe to toe with one, he stands a better chance playing it's weakness'
I know the BH is relatively slow, but still has a mobility advantage, which also means retreating is a bit easier.
It doesn't matter what you're playing, if you stand in front of a DW you've only got a few seconds to get out of it's LoS, no amount of heat scale tweaks is going to help
Edited by Destructicus, 21 September 2014 - 11:30 AM.
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#10
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:29 AM
Eldagore, on 21 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:
But eh, I know there are quite a few that dont care for it. I like mine.
I love Boar's Heads.
I know, short of a few maps, even in my Medium Mechs, I can usually snatch off the RT or open it up enough to force the guy to go into Cautious Mode, before he ever get's in range.
It's not so much that it's bad, but it's as your own post pointed out, very much a 1 trick pony. It can be an effective trick, but that's pretty bloody situational for a 35 dollar mech.
#11
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:29 AM
Blueduck, on 21 September 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:
Boars head is my favorite IS mech.
My build:
2LL
4medium lasers
AC 20
Tons of heatsinks and a standard engine that moves him well over 60kph.
Always managed to do tons of damage in him with a nice volley of lasers and ac20. He has the heat sinks too two do full two alphas and not shut down. He will core most any mech heavy and under and for the assaults he has the speed to get himself out of trouble asap.
My build:
2LL
4medium lasers
AC 20
Tons of heatsinks and a standard engine that moves him well over 60kph.
Always managed to do tons of damage in him with a nice volley of lasers and ac20. He has the heat sinks too two do full two alphas and not shut down. He will core most any mech heavy and under and for the assaults he has the speed to get himself out of trouble asap.
this is actually very similar to my build, except I swap out the LL for MLAS and use that tonnage for DHS, with a bit of self control it can run pretty cool and be very effective.
#12
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:31 AM
Warblood, on 21 September 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:
XL plus Gauss bomb strapped to it. (And command console....troll post?)
Even better. I weather 1-2 Gauss hits, and the RT blow, killing the whole mech.
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 September 2014 - 11:32 AM.
#13
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:39 AM
Eldagore, on 21 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:
Yeah whatever. It must not mesh with your playstyle. Last match I ran in mine on crimson I killed a whole lance and assisted with 3 others before going down. My kills were A TBR I won a brawl dual with, an Atlas D, some medium that showed himself at 100M at a very wrong time, and a Stalker. I almost killed another TBR before he scooted away with red showing and medium team mate persued for the kill, and then some other two I dont recall, likely smaller mechs.
Change to a STD, and not a 400. I ran a 375, 6ML and an AC20 with I think 3 tons ammo. I usually run out of ammo. Doresnt matter, twenty 50 point alpha strikes is enough to say I did my part, and having 30 point ML alpha for the rest of the match is nothing to sneeze at.
My only thing with the mech compared to other Atlas, especially with this loadout, but with any really, is if you lose the RT you are suddenly armed like a light mech. At that point you stick your dmg when you can but basically go into full on tank/distract/wingman mode.
The speed doesnt seem like much, but it is enough on many of the maps that if you are within a reasonable distance of your team you can movce to respond pretty well(I think it is like 65kph after tweak, I would have to go look though) compared to other atlas, especially say a DDC with the normal SRM6/AC20 combo.
My D and RS have bigger alphas. Nigther one of them run any cooler in a brawl though unless I chainfire stuff, but my RS does have longer range then the BH.
If you want it to be a DDC, it wont. If you want to use all the hardpoints, it will play like a DDC with more heat issues and no ECM. Or an RS loaded to the max but with less range. Or an RS with same range but even worse heat(more LL instead of ML or something). I think this might be the only Atlas, or even 100 ton mech we will see that skipping a hardpoint or two is beneficial to the end result. Sometimes, les is more.
But eh, I know there are quite a few that dont care for it. I like mine.
Change to a STD, and not a 400. I ran a 375, 6ML and an AC20 with I think 3 tons ammo. I usually run out of ammo. Doresnt matter, twenty 50 point alpha strikes is enough to say I did my part, and having 30 point ML alpha for the rest of the match is nothing to sneeze at.
My only thing with the mech compared to other Atlas, especially with this loadout, but with any really, is if you lose the RT you are suddenly armed like a light mech. At that point you stick your dmg when you can but basically go into full on tank/distract/wingman mode.
The speed doesnt seem like much, but it is enough on many of the maps that if you are within a reasonable distance of your team you can movce to respond pretty well(I think it is like 65kph after tweak, I would have to go look though) compared to other atlas, especially say a DDC with the normal SRM6/AC20 combo.
My D and RS have bigger alphas. Nigther one of them run any cooler in a brawl though unless I chainfire stuff, but my RS does have longer range then the BH.
If you want it to be a DDC, it wont. If you want to use all the hardpoints, it will play like a DDC with more heat issues and no ECM. Or an RS loaded to the max but with less range. Or an RS with same range but even worse heat(more LL instead of ML or something). I think this might be the only Atlas, or even 100 ton mech we will see that skipping a hardpoint or two is beneficial to the end result. Sometimes, les is more.
But eh, I know there are quite a few that dont care for it. I like mine.
umm its not a play style issue my friend. it's a "anything other than 6 mlas and it overheats to the point where u can't dish out enough firepower to kill whatever is shooting u". and 9/10 i will always lose the ac20 quickly in the brawl (and yes i do torso twist). The mech flat out overheats to the point where having a powerful build isn't an option,and you end up with the amount of firepower a medium or heavy has... not an assault class...
as for it being a DDC... um.. no.. the BH against a DDC will always get torn to pieces... 1xballistic and 1Xmissile vs 2x Ballistic and 3xMissile? not a chance...
Bishops points are valid. and for the love of god.. i didn't say the BH sucks or anything. I'm just saying for the hero variant of an assault mech, it needs to be fleshed out more and actually turned into a mech that excels more than the regular variants is all.. at the moment, it's very meh in that regard.
#14
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:46 AM
BaronBastardKiller, on 21 September 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:
umm its not a play style issue my friend. it's a "anything other than 6 mlas and it overheats to the point where u can't dish out enough firepower to kill whatever is shooting u". and 9/10 i will always lose the ac20 quickly in the brawl (and yes i do torso twist). The mech flat out overheats to the point where having a powerful build isn't an option,and you end up with the amount of firepower a medium or heavy has... not an assault class...
as for it being a DDC... um.. no.. the BH against a DDC will always get torn to pieces... 1xballistic and 1Xmissile vs 2x Ballistic and 3xMissile? not a chance...
Bishops points are valid. and for the love of god.. i didn't say the BH sucks or anything. I'm just saying for the hero variant of an assault mech, it needs to be fleshed out more and actually turned into a mech that excels more than the regular variants is all.. at the moment, it's very meh in that regard.
Maybe not excel more, but actually have niche in the Atlas family it excels at. Right now, it really is pretty MEH-tastic. I honestly would rather run my plain old RS. I can make the same build on both, (Gauss, 325 std and 4 Large) but it's funny how in matches, the plain jane, boring painted RS draws no attention...once people see no DDC, or the Flashy "Hero" paint, it's like I become a second rate target, lol.
So why paint a huge, gaudy target on myself for 30-40 bucks when I can do as well, or better, for free? I'll take my RS build against any ac20/6x Mlaser BH, and win, 75% of the time (the other 25% the BH is a better, short burst brawler., so if it can start close, it does have a fair shot).
But anytime I see one at 1000 meters? That RT is off before it hits 500 meters and then it is a 60 kph 3 medium laser mech.
#15
Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:52 AM
Gauss in the RT with an XL engine? That'll get you killed really, really fast. Even without a XL, I love gauss rifles in Atlases. Because that ballistic torso is very often the first target; the Gauss Rifle just means that it'll pop even faster. 20 damage may not be like a full on ammo explosion, but it's 20 damage after you've lost your armor and are already taking fire to internal structure. It's good enough.
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:55 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:
Maybe not excel more, but actually have niche in the Atlas family it excels at. Right now, it really is pretty MEH-tastic. I honestly would rather run my plain old RS. I can make the same build on both, (Gauss, 325 std and 4 Large) but it's funny how in matches, the plain jane, boring painted RS draws no attention...once people see no DDC, or the Flashy "Hero" paint, it's like I become a second rate target, lol.
So why paint a huge, gaudy target on myself for 30-40 bucks when I can do as well, or better, for free? I'll take my RS build against any ac20/6x Mlaser BH, and win, 75% of the time (the other 25% the BH is a better, short burst brawler., so if it can start close, it does have a fair shot).
But anytime I see one at 1000 meters? That RT is off before it hits 500 meters and then it is a 60 kph 3 medium laser mech.
So why paint a huge, gaudy target on myself for 30-40 bucks when I can do as well, or better, for free? I'll take my RS build against any ac20/6x Mlaser BH, and win, 75% of the time (the other 25% the BH is a better, short burst brawler., so if it can start close, it does have a fair shot).
But anytime I see one at 1000 meters? That RT is off before it hits 500 meters and then it is a 60 kph 3 medium laser mech.
well that's kinda what I mean. if it had some quirks to make it a viable lasboat then it would be neat.
and it's funny, in the BH as you said everyone just goes after me. last night I got irked and broke out my beastly "violator" build DDC.. which despite the paint job everyone didn't really go after me, and the ones that did I tore to pieces.
and yeah, pretty much every other BH match my ac20 is gone by the time i've moved in, and i'm left with only 6mlas to do anything.
for awhile I ran las only build with no ballistic or missile, 4 LpL and a 3 LpL 1ERPPC n stuff and it was capable of doing damage with chainfire, but I had to be careful and choose already damaged mechs. facing off against an undamaged, i'd usually overheat and shutdown 2-3 times and just get torn apart trying to land the kill.
#17
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:02 PM
Someone I knew ran a fun BH build with the 400XL and 6 ERLLs (later LLs with range mod). You have to watch your heat, but you can stay at a bit of a distance, and bring a bunch of firepower.
But yeah, BH never was that awesome due to needing an XL to boat larger stuff, or being slow and not boating much, making it not that much better than the RS.
But yeah, BH never was that awesome due to needing an XL to boat larger stuff, or being slow and not boating much, making it not that much better than the RS.
#18
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 01:07 PM
Bront, on 21 September 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:
Someone I knew ran a fun BH build with the 400XL and 6 ERLLs (later LLs with range mod). You have to watch your heat, but you can stay at a bit of a distance, and bring a bunch of firepower.
But yeah, BH never was that awesome due to needing an XL to boat larger stuff, or being slow and not boating much, making it not that much better than the RS.
But yeah, BH never was that awesome due to needing an XL to boat larger stuff, or being slow and not boating much, making it not that much better than the RS.
the XL isn't just about speed: the amount of heatsinks in it are the only way the BH is a viable laser boat. Once u take it out, you have issues with space for heatsinks... fitting the most 2-4 on the engine.
I tell you, if the BH 6 energy hard points were changed to ballistic.. then it would be one nasty mech.
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 01:31 PM
BaronBastardKiller, on 21 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:
the XL isn't just about speed: the amount of heatsinks in it are the only way the BH is a viable laser boat. Once u take it out, you have issues with space for heatsinks... fitting the most 2-4 on the engine.
I tell you, if the BH 6 energy hard points were changed to ballistic.. then it would be one nasty mech.
Yes, I am aware of the "Bigger Engine = More space" quirk of assault mechs (it's why the standard 300 is great in Stalkers), so I will give you that. Sadly, it also makes the mech extremely vulnerable, or needing to run smaller weapons.
#20
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Posted 21 September 2014 - 01:33 PM
I love the boars head. Bought it the day it came out. It is a beast. I have tried many variations on the BH. 4 MLas, 2LL, AC20. 4LL with a AC20. No ballistics and went with missile. The list goes on. I have found the BH performs best as a flanker. The heat it generates if you run the 6MLas, which in my opinion is the only way to do it, doesn't make it a great in your face brawler and the lack of extra ballistic or missile slot hurts it also.
With my playstyle I have found that 6 MLas, AC20, AMS, LRM15, 6 DHS, endo, and a STD 350 makes it a mean mofo. You have great brawl with the MLas when coupled with the AC20, have a ranged option with the LRM. The LRM gives you the ability to soften up the target on the way in plus since you aren't going to be firing it when while brawling usually, saves you some heat.
If you wanted more DHS change the LRM15 to a 10. I run 3 tons of AC20, 2 tons of LRM, and a single ton of AMS ammo. It also has almost maxed armor except the legs.
Now this is just what I have found works for me and my playstyle. It's all about trying to find what works for you. The BH has 2 things that set it apart from the other Atlai, the 6 energy hard points and the ability to run a 400 engine. Running a STD 400 doesn't give you enough space for firepower and running a XL is suicide, so you focus on the 6 energy.
Hope you find something that works for you.
With my playstyle I have found that 6 MLas, AC20, AMS, LRM15, 6 DHS, endo, and a STD 350 makes it a mean mofo. You have great brawl with the MLas when coupled with the AC20, have a ranged option with the LRM. The LRM gives you the ability to soften up the target on the way in plus since you aren't going to be firing it when while brawling usually, saves you some heat.
If you wanted more DHS change the LRM15 to a 10. I run 3 tons of AC20, 2 tons of LRM, and a single ton of AMS ammo. It also has almost maxed armor except the legs.
Now this is just what I have found works for me and my playstyle. It's all about trying to find what works for you. The BH has 2 things that set it apart from the other Atlai, the 6 energy hard points and the ability to run a 400 engine. Running a STD 400 doesn't give you enough space for firepower and running a XL is suicide, so you focus on the 6 energy.
Hope you find something that works for you.
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