319 replies to this topic

[Too Much Love]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Getting on with it, isn't possible. Any change we make is viewed as a fatal error by some and the right move by others. We need more agreement on what the best trade offs are.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Solo queue was very upset that any groups at all were in and wiping them.
2) Putting all 2-3 man groups in with the solo queue means removing groups of 9 and 10 from the group queue.

We can make this a lot more competitive but you guys need to let me know what is acceptable. Off the top of my head if we could put groups of 2 and 3 in solo queue and restrict group queue to group sizes of 4, 8 and 12. Then make game mode selection a vote instead of a hard stop. Then make groups of 4 made up of one of each weight class, groups of 8 made of of 2 of each weight class, finally 12 mans made up of the 3,3,3,3.

The match maker would have a grand time of putting matches together.

nooo! Separation of queues was the best what you did to mm so far. At least, don't ruin this please.

[Russ Bullock]

Boris The Spider, on 22 September 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Russ, wouldn’t the easiest way to fix this is to go back to a single queue and let Elo sort it out. Low/mid Elo solos will play mostly other solos and occasionally small low Elo groups, and instead of getting small low Elo groups as filler for the larger high Elo groups we get the high Elo solo players who should have no problem playing in that environment (many have been asking for this option). It should be, over the passage of time self correcting. If a group is stomping, their Elo goes up until they are again, primarily filler for the high Elo groups.

Honestly any groups in the solo queue really screws it up. The solo Queue right now is actually pretty amazing with an average team elo difference of around 40. Exact weight class matching 95% of the time etc.

It is the group queue that is frustrating players - especially groups on the smaller side.

[Utilyan]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Getting on with it, isn't possible. Any change we make is viewed as a fatal error by some and the right move by others. We need more agreement on what the best trade offs are.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Solo queue was very upset that any groups at all were in and wiping them.
2) Putting all 2-3 man groups in with the solo queue means removing groups of 9 and 10 from the group queue.

We can make this a lot more competitive but you guys need to let me know what is acceptable. Off the top of my head if we could put groups of 2 and 3 in solo queue and restrict group queue to group sizes of 4, 8 and 12. Then make game mode selection a vote instead of a hard stop. Then make groups of 4 made up of one of each weight class, groups of 8 made of of 2 of each weight class, finally 12 mans made up of the 3,3,3,3.

The match maker would have a grand time of putting matches together.

I pug solo drop only. But I'm willing to face groups even 12 man.

I think what people want to see is much like the game mode select. Where opponents are marked 1-12. And you check off what is not acceptable but its limited to the size of your group. So if your a 8-man you don't have the option of unchecking vs 8-mans or less but you do have the option of avoiding 9-man through 12. A 12-man will have no option in deciding what they fight.

You can even have it where the solo-player or small group gets "compensated" for willing to face 12-man gets you a slight bonus in reward cbill/xp.

If you want to avoid over-rewarding. Then have it where the current values we normally get right now are only obtainable by willing to face off 12-man groups and opting for lesser challenges reward less. But I wouldn't word it in a penalizing manner rather you get a bonus for being open to fight anything.

[STEF_]

MM with elo SEEMS to work, but don't: newbies should start with elo 0 after completing first 25 matches.
AND MM should group togheter pilots with similar elo (bracket)

edit: lance group 4 vs 4. Or at least give people the possibility to choose.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 22 September 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Too Much Love]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Honestly any groups in the solo queue really screws it up. The solo Queue right now is actually pretty amazing with an average team elo difference of around 40. Exact weight class matching 95% of the time etc.

It is the group queue that is frustrating players - especially groups on the smaller side.

Really? I have the opposite impression. While I have good time in group queue, I simply can't play solo - it is defeat after defeat. While team ELO difference there may be around 40, I wonder what is inside team ELO spread. Because most of the time it is like 2 good players + 10 newbies.

[KingCobra]

Russ Bullock said (Honestly any groups in the solo queue really screws it up. The solo Queue right now is actually pretty amazing with an average team elo difference of around 40. Exact weight class matching 95% of the time etc.

It is the group queue that is frustrating players - especially groups on the smaller side. )
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And I could not agree with you more the solo/pug queue is fun and exciting only needing some new maps new game modes and better map rotations. Also looking into sync drops still occurring in solo /pug queues would help.

P.S Russ truly a live-chat-lobby launcher system with a battle statistics system would be much better than the private group matches we have now so anyone could play 1v1-12v12 matches in fun open games or league battles using 3rdparty websites like we had in past MechWarrior PC games.

Edited by KingCobra, 22 September 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Domoneky]

I'm' fine with how the MM is right now. Granted fine tuning is always welcome but otherwise I'm just happy I can finally drop with my friends.

[9thDeathscream]

DarthRevis, on 22 September 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Actually we do this ALL THE TIME when we have enough players on to permit. Then we know we are going against others player that we similar ELO's and ti will be a good fight. I actually HATE when i get stuck fighting a few small groups in my 12. Its not a good show of skill really to beat up on a handicapped team for whatever reason.

But its often wise to not make assumptions about a player base you are not directly involved with.

Yes and again why should we have to do this? Manny people just want to run with 1 or 2 buddies and jump on a queue. No screw around finding enough players to make a decent run of it in a private match. The operate word in this whole thred is CASUAL.

[Gas Guzzler]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Also if we left the grouping as it is now, how willing would players be to have more weight restrictions in their group window? for instance you have a group of 2 you would not be allowed to drop with 2 heavies etc. More rules within the group window will also help greatly.

I am hesitant to like that idea because it is nice to drop with a friend in the same weight class to have similar roles. For instance, what if two wanted to run around at 150 kph in lights... would make it difficult if you had to settle for a Cicada especially if you don't have one.

[Aym]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Getting on with it, isn't possible. Any change we make is viewed as a fatal error by some and the right move by others. We need more agreement on what the best trade offs are.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Solo queue was very upset that any groups at all were in and wiping them.
2) Putting all 2-3 man groups in with the solo queue means removing groups of 9 and 10 from the group queue.

We can make this a lot more competitive but you guys need to let me know what is acceptable. Off the top of my head if we could put groups of 2 and 3 in solo queue and restrict group queue to group sizes of 4, 8 and 12. Then make game mode selection a vote instead of a hard stop. Then make groups of 4 made up of one of each weight class, groups of 8 made of of 2 of each weight class, finally 12 mans made up of the 3,3,3,3.

The match maker would have a grand time of putting matches together.

Why not use any group of 1-4 to be filler on either queue. If a group is in a pug queue team then the other pug queue team needs a group, and wablow you continue allowing all current groups and ease restrictions. Many have said before me that allowing 1-2 solo players with a 10-player group will give them a taste of some of the positives of group play and allow them to perhaps be exposed to groups they would never otherwise get exposed to, ie no in game method of meeting groups (lobby etc).

[Gas Guzzler]

Aym, on 22 September 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Why not use any group of 1-4 to be filler on either queue. If a group is in a pug queue team then the other pug queue team needs a group, and wablow you continue allowing all current groups and ease restrictions. Many have said before me that allowing 1-2 solo players with a 10-player group will give them a taste of some of the positives of group play and allow them to perhaps be exposed to groups they would never otherwise get exposed to, ie no in game method of meeting groups (lobby etc).

It was like this initially and they shut it down because solos didn't like groups of 4 in their queue

[Dolph Hoskins]

Agreed that solo que does feel vastly improved after the MM update. Occasionally when I group up with a couple of friends it would be nice to not be put up against a stacked team. Still though I wouldn't trade the current solo que for that. Solo is the most open game type considering real life time constraints and what not.

Edited by The Ripper13, 22 September 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

As usual it's all the players who form 12 mans who are screaming no. Because the can't go wiping out the small pug groups.

So what needs to be decided is does this game cater for a smaller hardcore player base with a few 12 mans and everyone else who has the shits getting stomped playing only in solo
Or a broader base of players in a more FUN CASUAL ENVIROMENT. With more smaller groups?

Edited by Akulla1980, 22 September 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Boris The Spider]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

It is the group queue that is frustrating players - especially groups on the smaller side.

Dont forget the noobs Russ.

I have been mentioning a new player in the group queue, its been tough going but he's getting there, I don't think its too far off, perhaps your plan to remove game mode choice might be enough to put things in balance. Don't like the idea, but retention of grouping new players needs to improve somehow.

[J0anna]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Getting on with it, isn't possible. Any change we make is viewed as a fatal error by some and the right move by others. We need more agreement on what the best trade offs are.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Solo queue was very upset that any groups at all were in and wiping them.
2) Putting all 2-3 man groups in with the solo queue means removing groups of 9 and 10 from the group queue.

We can make this a lot more competitive but you guys need to let me know what is acceptable. Off the top of my head if we could put groups of 2 and 3 in solo queue and restrict group queue to group sizes of 4, 8 and 12. Then make game mode selection a vote instead of a hard stop. Then make groups of 4 made up of one of each weight class, groups of 8 made of of 2 of each weight class, finally 12 mans made up of the 3,3,3,3.

The match maker would have a grand time of putting matches together.

I still believe that putting any groups in the solo que is a bad idea. It would be great if the group que worked to put small groups up against each other the majority of time. But I don't believe that to be a MM problem, I suspect it's more of a numbers problem.

Also you're belief that eliminating hard choices will make matches better (on average) has some flaws. 1) when in group que (especially in larger groups) we're almost always set to play in 'any' mode - simply to have the greatest choice of opponents. 2) The matchmaker's workings have never been explained to the players. Most of us suspect it works on "average" elo which does not always make for a balanced match.

While I feel for the OP (in fact my son and I no longer drop together, which we did quite often) but now we have a great clan of people to drop with. And what will really keep people involved and playing MWO is being part of something bigger.

[zortesh]

I'm not sure the group quee can be fixed as easily as peeps think, everyone fills assault and heavy mechs first when making a group, excepting those odd times we all fight over medium slots.

Its why you can go out with a 8+man group and end up facing 2 sixman groups who brought 2 direwhales and 2 timbys each... which means you got a real hard time on your hands.

I mean, fixing the players overwhelming preference for heavier mechs is hard to do without extending wait times ridiculously long.

Edited by zortesh, 22 September 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

The only issue I have with with the group queue is that the match maker doesn't try to force 3/3/3/3 all the time. You can still get beef heavy games just because the match maker seems to seek the same group size and then factors in chassis types seem to be secondary, when they should be weighed more heavily, especially for assaults and heavies.

[Crockdaddy]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

I have to at least high lite these posts to show that not everyone feels the same way as the OP - believe it or not many don't.

It does a pretty dang good job of putting even tonnage per side, on average around 20 tons diff the last time I checked.

I think if we can smartly remove a few restrictions the MM is working with like the game mode selection hard stop.

Also if we left the grouping as it is now, how willing would players be to have more weight restrictions in their group window? for instance you have a group of 2 you would not be allowed to drop with 2 heavies etc. More rules within the group window will also help greatly.

Russ,

I have not always been a fan of yours and despite my CW before clans tag line in my signature I've bought every major pack you guys have sold. I am keeping the faith even when I am pissed off. Right now the Group queue is working better than it ever has. Honestly the flexibility in grouping has been amazing. Guys in the unit are not left out hanging anymore. No longer do we bother with sync dropping (we didn't care if we dropped same team or opposite sides ... just that we dropped together). I wouldn't mind sharing the 2 to 4 guys with the solo queue ... if they hit solo then they get an ELO bump ... if they hit group they get their normal ELO. I am often in 2 to 5 man groups as often as I am in 5 to 10 .... when we are in the smaller groups we often take command and work on getting guys in the same spot. If the other groups go a different way, we just simply adjust what we do.

Focus on CW. Get it moving forward. Get us an IS Mech pack and if you get a Mauler into that baby my money is yours very quickly. CW will focus everyone's attention from our Team Death match mode we currently play to something bigger. Which will make the groupings more natural.

Anyway, while I have often been disappointed at times I am happy or at least satisfied at the recent improvements and especially the community engagement. I find it very important and it is the main area where I have always felt SC and Chris Roberts has kicked everyones ass in so far is the community engagement. Yes I do realize 50+ million player funded development not shared with a publisher helps too. Keep moving forward .... I can accept some more bumps in the road at this point.

Edited by CrockdaddyAoD, 22 September 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[DasaDevil]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Honestly any groups in the solo queue really screws it up. The solo Queue right now is actually pretty amazing with an average team elo difference of around 40. Exact weight class matching 95% of the time etc.

It is the group queue that is frustrating players - especially groups on the smaller side.

Back in the days of 4 man grouping, if you throw in a lance into a game with 12 pugs on the other side, that lance alone will be coordinated enough to obliterate the entire enemy team by using the rest of their pugs as bait, for the most part. This game is pretty rough in terms of communication, and I really think the underlying problem comes down to the lack of VOIP. At the very least, we need some way of issuing commands, or at least making it easier for pugs to not be pugs and start working as a team.

[9thDeathscream]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 September 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

It was like this initially and they shut it down because solos didn't like groups of 4 in their queue

Nope it was shut down so they could get the mm to work in group queue with sizes bigger than 4.