319 replies to this topic

[9thDeathscream]

1453 R, on 23 September 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

A note that many people are forgetting:

The small-group guys are indeed seeing their Elo-mandated 50% W/L rates or close to it. The problem is that the two-man buddy teams are not contributing to either their own wins or their own losses.

When a two or three-man team is used as grease to get two big ultracomp groups into a match together, that small squad is completely inconsequential to the ultimate result of the match. It doesn’t matter one tiny jot what we do; as I’ve said before, that small casual team can take themselves into a corner and produce a bong and still have exactly the same impact on the match that they would have had if they’d dove in with all their might and fury and strove with every fiber of their being to smite the enemy, especially if a friend is trying to introduce his new-player buddy(z) to the game.

This produces ‘wins’ almost as frustrating as the losses are. The big comp groups in this thread are all telling us “We’re looking for competition, we’re not out to ruin your fun.” I totally get that. Point is that the player-starved matchmaker gives neither you nor us any choice. We’re as sick of being carried as you are of carrying us. Nobody wants to be that 10+2 team – the ten-man group sneers at the twobies and is all “fuggin’ scrubs crampin’ our style” and gets bitter and pissed off because they’re suffering a handicap in their Glorious Comp Games, and the two-man group gets to be a superfluous third wheel getting scheiss from their own team as well as the enemy team, and with no real option to contribute to the match.

It’s a crap situation for everyone, and it puts Piranha in a lousy situation. I can very easily understand Piranha’s frustration with the group matchmaker woes, because the big-unit players who DEMANDED the ability to drop in any group size they pleased are now seeing first-hand the results of just precisely what Piranha told them would happen – large groups are massively polarizing and end up forcing a lot of the small groups they theoretically need in order to get on with their games into simply disbanding back into the solo queue in order to get out from under the 8+ hammer. It’s just not worth it to be a two-man group in the group queue anymore.

And now, for Small-Group Q&A, by 1453-R
“But 1453-R, you small-timers can just join a big unit and get in on the right end of the 8+ groups!”

-No. I have work, and I work a late shift that pushes me out of NA primetime, and my buddies all have either more work than I do or unpredictable college schedules. On top of that, as much as I’ve spent on MWO and as much as I love the MechWarrior franchise, my life does not revolve around MWO. Sometimes I’d rather play Path of Exile, or hit up GW2, or try out some quirky new Steam game I found, or breed another crop of Failtinis in search for that one perfect specimen for that team I’m putting together to crush Swordgoat under my fashionably booted foot in Y. I have neither the time nor the inclination to roleplay some goon’s toy soldier and make my mandatory 10h/week training time in some unit or other, and I’m far and away the most rabid MechWarrior fan amongst my little circle of buds. If I’m not even remotely close to willing to put up with the playtime, attendance, and soon-to-be C-bill donation requirements of a big unit, what makes any of you think any of the rest of my casual-time buddies are going to be?

Also: how does this actually solve the problem, again?

“But 1453-R, you can just start some threads and stuff on the forum and organize a Small Fry Play Night over private matches!”

-I seem to recall that the big league-playing 12-man comp teams – who are vastly more motivated and disciplined, and who were also the actual target audience for the entire private match lobby feature which was implemented to make player-organized league play easier– telling everyone most firmly that no, private matches were not a substitute for a proper in-game competition system. If private matches weren’t a realistic option for the ultracomps private matching was built for, what in Creation makes you think it’s the right solution for small casual groups looking for a consistent good time? (Note: “consistent good time” does not mean 100% awesome matches. It means the reasonable expectation that two-odd hours spent on MWO on any given night will produce more Fun than Anger.) Besides. If I had the time, motivation, and graphical arts skill to start organizing big galumphing forum events, I’d find, or start, a unit of my own and skip the need to do so.

“But 1453-R, F*** YOU! We waited forever to be able to drop with all our friends at once, and ain’t none of you jackholes are gonna screw that up for us! Go cry me a river, scrub!”

-Gee. Aren’t you glad Piranha didn’t think like that when they screwed over small groups in exchange for big ones like yours? Nobody’s asking for a return to lowball-only days, a lot of people are just desperately throwing ideas out there in order to try and find some tiny shred of game space where we can bring in a new buddy, or play with a small gathering of IRL friends somewhere. You’d be a lot more likely to keep your current happy bubbly fun-times large group drops by helping us find an agreeable solution for all parties involved, instead of being a snide, condescending basshole dismissing the problem out of hand and making threats whenever anyone tries to discuss it.

My feelings exactly!!!!

[Revis Volek]

1453 R, on 23 September 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

A note that many people are forgetting:

The small-group guys are indeed seeing their Elo-mandated 50% W/L rates or close to it. The problem is that the two-man buddy teams are not contributing to either their own wins or their own losses.

When a two or three-man team is used as grease to get two big ultracomp groups into a match together, that small squad is completely inconsequential to the ultimate result of the match. It doesn’t matter one tiny jot what we do; as I’ve said before, that small casual team can take themselves into a corner and produce a bong and still have exactly the same impact on the match that they would have had if they’d dove in with all their might and fury and strove with every fiber of their being to smite the enemy, especially if a friend is trying to introduce his new-player buddy(z) to the game.

This produces ‘wins’ almost as frustrating as the losses are. The big comp groups in this thread are all telling us “We’re looking for competition, we’re not out to ruin your fun.” I totally get that. Point is that the player-starved matchmaker gives neither you nor us any choice. We’re as sick of being carried as you are of carrying us. Nobody wants to be that 10+2 team – the ten-man group sneers at the twobies and is all “fuggin’ scrubs crampin’ our style” and gets bitter and pissed off because they’re suffering a handicap in their Glorious Comp Games, and the two-man group gets to be a superfluous third wheel getting scheiss from their own team as well as the enemy team, and with no real option to contribute to the match.

It’s a crap situation for everyone, and it puts Piranha in a lousy situation. I can very easily understand Piranha’s frustration with the group matchmaker woes, because the big-unit players who DEMANDED the ability to drop in any group size they pleased are now seeing first-hand the results of just precisely what Piranha told them would happen – large groups are massively polarizing and end up forcing a lot of the small groups they theoretically need in order to get on with their games into simply disbanding back into the solo queue in order to get out from under the 8+ hammer. It’s just not worth it to be a two-man group in the group queue anymore.

And now, for Small-Group Q&A, by 1453-R
“But 1453-R, you small-timers can just join a big unit and get in on the right end of the 8+ groups!”

-No. I have work, and I work a late shift that pushes me out of NA primetime, and my buddies all have either more work than I do or unpredictable college schedules. On top of that, as much as I’ve spent on MWO and as much as I love the MechWarrior franchise, my life does not revolve around MWO. Sometimes I’d rather play Path of Exile, or hit up GW2, or try out some quirky new Steam game I found, or breed another crop of Failtinis in search for that one perfect specimen for that team I’m putting together to crush Swordgoat under my fashionably booted foot in Y. I have neither the time nor the inclination to roleplay some goon’s toy soldier and make my mandatory 10h/week training time in some unit or other, and I’m far and away the most rabid MechWarrior fan amongst my little circle of buds. If I’m not even remotely close to willing to put up with the playtime, attendance, and soon-to-be C-bill donation requirements of a big unit, what makes any of you think any of the rest of my casual-time buddies are going to be?

Also: how does this actually solve the problem, again?

“But 1453-R, you can just start some threads and stuff on the forum and organize a Small Fry Play Night over private matches!”

-I seem to recall that the big league-playing 12-man comp teams – who are vastly more motivated and disciplined, and who were also the actual target audience for the entire private match lobby feature which was implemented to make player-organized league play easier– telling everyone most firmly that no, private matches were not a substitute for a proper in-game competition system. If private matches weren’t a realistic option for the ultracomps private matching was built for, what in Creation makes you think it’s the right solution for small casual groups looking for a consistent good time? (Note: “consistent good time” does not mean 100% awesome matches. It means the reasonable expectation that two-odd hours spent on MWO on any given night will produce more Fun than Anger.) Besides. If I had the time, motivation, and graphical arts skill to start organizing big galumphing forum events, I’d find, or start, a unit of my own and skip the need to do so.

“But 1453-R, F*** YOU! We waited forever to be able to drop with all our friends at once, and ain’t none of you jackholes are gonna screw that up for us! Go cry me a river, scrub!”

-Gee. Aren’t you glad Piranha didn’t think like that when they screwed over small groups in exchange for big ones like yours? Nobody’s asking for a return to lowball-only days, a lot of people are just desperately throwing ideas out there in order to try and find some tiny shred of game space where we can bring in a new buddy, or play with a small gathering of IRL friends somewhere. You’d be a lot more likely to keep your current happy bubbly fun-times large group drops by helping us find an agreeable solution for all parties involved, instead of being a snide, condescending basshole dismissing the problem out of hand and making threats whenever anyone tries to discuss it.

So you are gonna seriously say in the same post that you with your high ELO and your buddy which comprise a 2 man group dont matter in the game? Have you read your own signature? Sounds to me like most of you are defeated the second you see the large group in the ready screen. I witnessed a jenner last night win the game for us with a crit torso....he killed 3 mechs including a Highlander. So please continue to tell me how 2 and 3 man groups just dont matter?

I think the issue mainly stems from hidden ELO, i think most of you think you are a lot better then you actually are and get upset when you lose.... Its understandable no one wants to admit then need more work. Small groups will never have the coordination and the speed at which they operate that the large groups have. In a teamwork oriented game this is OP and makes or breaks the match for you.

Also, whats wrong with creating a NEW account to play with buddies....I have one and it works out MUCH better. I have tried putting friends in Small groups with me and i have even got them into some of the 12 mans but we have more fun and find better matches by creating a group or 2-4 and going to town. If you keep your lance together and work with the Other team you can sway a battle on your own. But everyone here whining about how their 10 or 11 year old cant compete in a queue which is comprised of 18-45 year old e sport competitive adults who have played for years and have fully mastered top tier mechs. I have no remorse for you....you realize you threw your kid into the lions den right? That is the equivalent of starting a new account and trying to battle a lvl 60 in any other game, Or taking the LVL 1 character and going to the End game dungeon.

I'm sorry there is no REAL answer for the small groups right now, i wish we had small group on small group queue but we know that would ruin the 12 man search times. Most of this comes down to a player base that is too small.....so if you want the game to get better you gotta get more then just your kids on board....try the neighborhood.

[9thDeathscream]

DarthRevis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

So you are gonna seriously say in the same post that you with your high ELO and your buddy which comprise a 2 man group dont matter in the game? Have you read your own signature? Sounds to me like most of you are defeated the second you see the large group in the ready screen. I witnessed a jenner last night win the game for us with a crit torso....he killed 3 mechs including a Highlander. So please continue to tell me how 2 and 3 man groups just dont matter?

I think the issue mainly stems from hidden ELO, i think most of you think you are a lot better then you actually are and get upset when you lose.... Its understandable no one wants to admit then need more work. Small groups will never have the coordination and the speed at which they operate that the large groups have. In a teamwork oriented game this is OP and makes or breaks the match for you.

Also, whats wrong with creating a NEW account to play with buddies....I have one and it works out MUCH better. I have tried putting friends in Small groups with me and i have even got them into some of the 12 mans but we have more fun and find better matches by creating a group or 2-4 and going to town. If you keep your lance together and work with the Other team you can sway a battle on your own. But everyone here whining about how their 10 or 11 year old cant compete in a queue which is comprised of 18-45 year old e sport competitive adults who have played for years and have fully mastered top tier mechs. I have no remorse for you....you realize you threw your kid into the lions den right? That is the equivalent of starting a new account and trying to battle a lvl 60 in any other game, Or taking the LVL 1 character and going to the End game dungeon.

I'm sorry there is no REAL answer for the small groups right now, i wish we had small group on small group queue but we know that would ruin the 12 man search times. Most of this comes down to a player base that is too small.....so if you want the game to get better you gotta get more then just your kids on board....try the neighborhood.

Yep they come on board get smashed in group queue and don't play again. Your arguments circular.

[Jon Phoenix]

Why do we have to rely upon a match maker and a group queue? Why can't we have public lobbies, like almost every other multiplayer online game for the last 20 years? I started talking about it here. Public lobbies would at least allow the players to see whom they're going to play and decide if that's the match they want to join. Some guys like playing the odds against 10-12 man teams and others don't. The public lobby system would at least give players that choice and they could repeat matches with the same teams if they like. It seems like the player base really isn't big enough for the private lobbies to handle this. Group players either can't find enough private game people or they are unwilling to do so.

There could still be a match maker run solo queue for people who enjoy the random experience. But I wouldn't stop solo players from joining public lobbies either. It would be up to them.

Isn't this the best all-around compromise to get the small group players and the large group players into more competitive games? Wouldn't everyone find what suits them? It's been working for online multiplayer games for so many years. And it would take some of the heat off of PGI. No one could blame PGI if they knowingly play against a team that kicks their butts. There'd be no combersome or unnecessarily complex match maker to blame for it's mismatching.

Edited by Jon Phoenix, 23 September 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Desirsar]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Getting on with it, isn't possible. Any change we make is viewed as a fatal error by some and the right move by others. We need more agreement on what the best trade offs are.

Separate them. If two groups disagree on how queuing should be done, they probably don't want to play each other anyway. Figure out how each side typically plays and make a hard division between the two.

[-Natural Selection-]

Ok, so now it is a problem to loose to a 9 man, and also to win while in a 9 man. And the reason is you do not feel as though your contribution was needed?

I have seen one other guy I group with on here in defense of groups, and nothing from the other 40-60 that that we drop with that are happy with things. I think maybe some of the groups may want to get their players to come and speak up before groups get slap hammered back down to the way it was before.

[Shredhead]

1453 R, on 23 September 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

A note that many people are forgetting:

The small-group guys are indeed seeing their Elo-mandated 50% W/L rates or close to it. The problem is that the two-man buddy teams are not contributing to either their own wins or their own losses.

I agree on the losses. It's most often as frustrating and cringeworthy as playing in solo queue. However, I can make sure I get my share on every win we get in a 2 man team, my buddies as well. Maybe you should take a day and drop with an open minded unit in 12 mans, for example Jaeger's Meat Shield Mondays, to get a grasp on group tactics. You'll be able to keep up way better and contribute.

Quote

When a two or three-man team is used as grease to get two big ultracomp groups into a match together, that small squad is completely inconsequential to the ultimate result of the match. It doesn’t matter one tiny jot what we do; as I’ve said before, that small casual team can take themselves into a corner and produce a bong and still have exactly the same impact on the match that they would have had if they’d dove in with all their might and fury and strove with every fiber of their being to smite the enemy, especially if a friend is trying to introduce his new-player buddy(z) to the game.

This produces ‘wins’ almost as frustrating as the losses are. The big comp groups in this thread are all telling us “We’re looking for competition, we’re not out to ruin your fun.” I totally get that. Point is that the player-starved matchmaker gives neither you nor us any choice. We’re as sick of being carried as you are of carrying us. Nobody wants to be that 10+2 team – the ten-man group sneers at the twobies and is all “fuggin’ scrubs crampin’ our style” and gets bitter and pissed off because they’re suffering a handicap in their Glorious Comp Games, and the two-man group gets to be a superfluous third wheel getting scheiss from their own team as well as the enemy team, and with no real option to contribute to the match.

I've never experienced behaviour like that with a ten man, be it one I am in nor being in the 2 man filler.

Quote

It’s a crap situation for everyone, and it puts Piranha in a lousy situation. I can very easily understand Piranha’s frustration with the group matchmaker woes, because the big-unit players who DEMANDED the ability to drop in any group size they pleased are now seeing first-hand the results of just precisely what Piranha told them would happen – large groups are massively polarizing and end up forcing a lot of the small groups they theoretically need in order to get on with their games into simply disbanding back into the solo queue in order to get out from under the 8+ hammer. It’s just not worth it to be a two-man group in the group queue anymore.

And now, for Small-Group Q&A, by 1453-R
“But 1453-R, you small-timers can just join a big unit and get in on the right end of the 8+ groups!”

-No. I have work, and I work a late shift that pushes me out of NA primetime, and my buddies all have either more work than I do or unpredictable college schedules. On top of that, as much as I’ve spent on MWO and as much as I love the MechWarrior franchise, my life does not revolve around MWO. Sometimes I’d rather play Path of Exile, or hit up GW2, or try out some quirky new Steam game I found, or breed another crop of Failtinis in search for that one perfect specimen for that team I’m putting together to crush Swordgoat under my fashionably booted foot in Y. I have neither the time nor the inclination to roleplay some goon’s toy soldier and make my mandatory 10h/week training time in some unit or other, and I’m far and away the most rabid MechWarrior fan amongst my little circle of buds. If I’m not even remotely close to willing to put up with the playtime, attendance, and soon-to-be C-bill donation requirements of a big unit, what makes any of you think any of the rest of my casual-time buddies are going to be?

Also: how does this actually solve the problem, again?

I wouldn't suggest units right away, but you can find like minded casual players on every MWO related TS server. Just take a look in the dropships. Most often it's enough to get 4 players together to have a way bigger impact on the games. I can also only recommend the 228th IBR, as we have a large chunk of casual players. You don't have to attend trainings, no mandatory times to play, no RP needed etc. Just drop by and have fun with other casuals. We have players from all time zones, so you should easily be able to find someone to play with.

Quote

“But 1453-R, you can just start some threads and stuff on the forum and organize a Small Fry Play Night over private matches!”

-I seem to recall that the big league-playing 12-man comp teams – who are vastly more motivated and disciplined, and who were also the actual target audience for the entire private match lobby feature which was implemented to make player-organized league play easier– telling everyone most firmly that no, private matches were not a substitute for a proper in-game competition system. If private matches weren’t a realistic option for the ultracomps private matching was built for, what in Creation makes you think it’s the right solution for small casual groups looking for a consistent good time? (Note: “consistent good time” does not mean 100% awesome matches. It means the reasonable expectation that two-odd hours spent on MWO on any given night will produce more Fun than Anger.) Besides. If I had the time, motivation, and graphical arts skill to start organizing big galumphing forum events, I’d find, or start, a unit of my own and skip the need to do so.

“But 1453-R, F*** YOU! We waited forever to be able to drop with all our friends at once, and ain’t none of you jackholes are gonna screw that up for us! Go cry me a river, scrub!”

-Gee. Aren’t you glad Piranha didn’t think like that when they screwed over small groups in exchange for big ones like yours? Nobody’s asking for a return to lowball-only days, a lot of people are just desperately throwing ideas out there in order to try and find some tiny shred of game space where we can bring in a new buddy, or play with a small gathering of IRL friends somewhere. You’d be a lot more likely to keep your current happy bubbly fun-times large group drops by helping us find an agreeable solution for all parties involved, instead of being a snide, condescending basshole dismissing the problem out of hand and making threats whenever anyone tries to discuss it.

And hopefully these ideas can bring better experiences for everyone. Until they are implemented, however, we can't offer you anything besides some good advice, our own ideas and a substitute in form of trying to make you visit our TS and play with other like minded people.

[Desirsar]

Random crazy idea - allow matches of 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 players on a side, instead of just 12. Any group of 8 or more would be matched only with another group of the same size (or the off chance matching 8+4s or 9+3s could be found.) 4-7 would be primarily matched with other 4-7, and could launch if a suitable smaller sized team game could be created. (7s would obviously never be in an 8 man side, since they'd need to be matched with at least a 7+2.) Do the same for 2 and 3 man groups, primarily match them against each other and only add them to larger matches when they fit exactly, but also allow for 2 man groups to drop down into solo queue if necessary.

Hopefully I'm not the first person thinking of this, and I missed it by only skimming the thread.

[The Lonegopher]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Getting on with it, isn't possible. Any change we make is viewed as a fatal error by some and the right move by others. We need more agreement on what the best trade offs are.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Solo queue was very upset that any groups at all were in and wiping them.
2) Putting all 2-3 man groups in with the solo queue means removing groups of 9 and 10 from the group queue.

We can make this a lot more competitive but you guys need to let me know what is acceptable. Off the top of my head if we could put groups of 2 and 3 in solo queue and restrict group queue to group sizes of 4, 8 and 12. Then make game mode selection a vote instead of a hard stop. Then make groups of 4 made up of one of each weight class, groups of 8 made of of 2 of each weight class, finally 12 mans made up of the 3,3,3,3.

The match maker would have a grand time of putting matches together.

Make it so number 1

[9thDeathscream]

Mickey Knoxx, on 23 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Ok, so now it is a problem to loose to a 9 man, and also to win while in a 9 man. And the reason is you do not feel as though your contribution was needed?

I have seen one other guy I group with on here in defense of groups, and nothing from the other 40-60 that that we drop with that are happy with things. I think maybe some of the groups may want to get their players to come and speak up before groups get slap hammered back down to the way it was before.

In other words your worried about loosing your ability to keep ur stranglehold over small groups. Did you ever think if the group queue was more attractive to smaller groups, that u might keep pilots in the queue, then they might join up with a larger group. Net result being more competitive matches and less stomps.

[Jon Phoenix]

Desirsar, on 23 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Random crazy idea - allow matches of 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 players on a side, instead of just 12. Any group of 8 or more would be matched only with another group of the same size (or the off chance matching 8+4s or 9+3s could be found.) 4-7 would be primarily matched with other 4-7, and could launch if a suitable smaller sized team game could be created. (7s would obviously never be in an 8 man side, since they'd need to be matched with at least a 7+2.) Do the same for 2 and 3 man groups, primarily match them against each other and only add them to larger matches when they fit exactly, but also allow for 2 man groups to drop down into solo queue if necessary.

Hopefully I'm not the first person thinking of this, and I missed it by only skimming the thread.

That would essentially work with my suggestion of having public lobbies here and here.

-Jon (nods)

[1453 R]

DarthRevis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

So you are gonna seriously say in the same post that you with your high ELO and your buddy which comprise a 2 man group dont matter in the game? Have you read your own signature? Sounds to me like most of you are defeated the second you see the large group in the ready screen. I witnessed a jenner last night win the game for us with a crit torso....he killed 3 mechs including a Highlander. So please continue to tell me how 2 and 3 man groups just dont matter?

The game in my signature was a particularly memorable one, indeed. However, it doesn’t speak to my Elo score – I dropped those three ‘Mechs within a single fifteen second span of time, as each was significantly weakened and needed one more dose of laserfire to finish off. Which I was, somehow, able to provide. Still makes me smile to remember it, though. I can count on the fingers of one hand the games I’ve had where the enemy team offers its compliments to me specifically on a game well-played, and this is Game #1 on that shortlist.

DarthRevis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I think the issue mainly stems from hidden ELO, i think most of you think you are a lot better then you actually are and get upset when you lose.... Its understandable no one wants to admit then need more work. Small groups will never have the coordination and the speed at which they operate that the large groups have. In a teamwork oriented game this is OP and makes or breaks the match for you.

On the contrary. I consider myself mid-low Elo at best – I know how to make the ‘Mech go, I’ve got a grip on the game’s fundamentals, I’m not a bad hand at all in the ‘Mechlab, but my aim is atrocious and always has been. It’s why I was consistently surprised at first to see myself thrown up against so many ultracomp units, wondering what the bloody hell they were doing slumming around down in my Elo, until such time as I figured out that the group queue matchmaker is so starved for players that it basically disregards Elo completely and just puts together any mix of units that starts a match with something vaguely resembling proper weight matching.

DarthRevis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Also, whats wrong with creating a NEW account to play with buddies....I have one and it works out MUCH better. I have tried putting friends in Small groups with me and i have even got them into some of the 12 mans but we have more fun and find better matches by creating a group or 2-4 and going to town. If you keep your lance together and work with the Other team you can sway a battle on your own. But everyone here whining about how their 10 or 11 year old cant compete in a queue which is comprised of 18-45 year old e sport competitive adults who have played for years and have fully mastered top tier mechs. I have no remorse for you....you realize you threw your kid into the lions den right? That is the equivalent of starting a new account and trying to battle a lvl 60 in any other game, Or taking the LVL 1 character and going to the End game dungeon.

Beyond the fact that smurfing myself out to a second account with the specific intention of bottoming out my ELO is all manner of against the EULA? I spoke with the friend in question about this very possibility actually, and he told me he found the notion both insulting and humiliating. He most emphatically doesn’t want me to throw away the hundreds of dollars and hours I’ve put into the game already specifically to cater to his nubness. I don’t blame him; I’d feel the exact same way if he were the long-established vet flushing his time and money down the tubes for my sake.

DarthRevis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I'm sorry there is no REAL answer for the small groups right now, i wish we had small group on small group queue but we know that would ruin the 12 man search times. Most of this comes down to a player base that is too small.....so if you want the game to get better you gotta get more then just your kids on board....try the neighborhood.

So the small group folks should just stop trying?

Not how it works, Darth. We’ll keep looking for solutions until we find one that works. You can tell us to shut up and deal all you like, doesn’t make it the right thing to do.

[Revis Volek]

Akulla1980, on 23 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

In other words your worried about loosing your ability to keep ur stranglehold over small groups. Did you ever think if the group queue was more attractive to smaller groups, that u might keep pilots in the queue, then they might join up with a larger group. Net result being more competitive matches and less stomps.

Akulla, Stop spamming the thread, you do not need to keep beating the same dead horse and quoting everything everyone says. We understand you stance so please let someone else get some ideas in before you drown them out with your constant spam.

Dunno weather you have some Agenda or not but being fanatic is not going to get you anywhere....let people talk about it. We know how you feel from the 40 post you have put on this thread disagreeing and insulting just about everyone who isnt in the same boat as you.

At this point i dont care what happens to the Large Queue, either way everyone will hate playing us and we will still do just fine im sure. Just wish we could get more 12's to play against because going agaisnt people who cant even express their opinions without sounding like children more then likely cant play better then them either.

1453 R, on 23 September 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

The game in my signature was a particularly memorable one, indeed. However, it doesn’t speak to my Elo score – I dropped those three ‘Mechs within a single fifteen second span of time, as each was significantly weakened and needed one more dose of laserfire to finish off. Which I was, somehow, able to provide. Still makes me smile to remember it, though. I can count on the fingers of one hand the games I’ve had where the enemy team offers its compliments to me specifically on a game well-played, and this is Game #1 on that shortlist.



On the contrary. I consider myself mid-low Elo at best – I know how to make the ‘Mech go, I’ve got a grip on the game’s fundamentals, I’m not a bad hand at all in the ‘Mechlab, but my aim is atrocious and always has been. It’s why I was consistently surprised at first to see myself thrown up against so many ultracomp units, wondering what the bloody hell they were doing slumming around down in my Elo, until such time as I figured out that the group queue matchmaker is so starved for players that it basically disregards Elo completely and just puts together any mix of units that starts a match with something vaguely resembling proper weight matching.



Beyond the fact that smurfing myself out to a second account with the specific intention of bottoming out my ELO is all manner of against the EULA? I spoke with the friend in question about this very possibility actually, and he told me he found the notion both insulting and humiliating. He most emphatically doesn’t want me to throw away the hundreds of dollars and hours I’ve put into the game already specifically to cater to his nubness. I don’t blame him; I’d feel the exact same way if he were the long-established vet flushing his time and money down the tubes for my sake.



So the small group folks should just stop trying?

Not how it works, Darth. We’ll keep looking for solutions until we find one that works. You can tell us to shut up and deal all you like, doesn’t make it the right thing to do.

WE both know why it doesn't work....you hid it in you reply and i flat out said it....SMALL PLAYER BASE!

I never said to stop playing....i play small groups all the time and do my best every day to bring new players on board because that is THE ONLY WAY MM will be fixed in its current operation. Also never said "Deal with it" you must have no understood what i wrote and are now putting words in my mouth. I said a larger player base could potentially fix it. So get more friends involved....


BTW im sorry your friend is insulted you are better then him at a game you clearly have played more then him (which doesn't make sense) but i would never ask a buddy of mine to keep up on foot while i ride my Dirt bike....id ditch the bike and start huffing it right next to him. But maybe id rather have the personal time with a good person then worry about my ELO, W/L, or anything else.....to each his own i guess not saying my idea is better then yours but to each his own. Which is the problem Russ has stated....everyone wants something different and you cant please everyone.

Edited by DarthRevis, 23 September 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[Hoax415]

This thread is such a joke.

Can you people take a second to think about what you are QQ'ing about.

You are a niche of a niche of a niche and you are demanding that the game somehow cater to your imprecise demands.

You could just form bigger groups, there are many many avenues where people can find pick up groups of various level of tryhard to pug with.

"no me and my friends hate playing with others! we don't wanna! its too much time commitment! i hate using voice!"

OK well then all you can do is contribute as much as possible to the team you are on...

"noooooo me and my friends don't want to try that hard. its lame. we don't want to bring consumables we want to run mediocre builds on mediocre mechs if we feel like it! Just because we're playing together doesn't mean we don't just want to have casual fun! Stop forcing us to play with tryhards!"

OK so you aren't going to contribute 100% you won't form a bigger group when you believe that group size is the determining factor in winning...

Nothing about that behavior says you are trying very hard to win. So if you don't win you cry on the forums?

BECAUSE REASONS.

Think about the community and the game as a whole for once. This entire attitude expressed in this thread is ridiculous.

Edited by Hoax415, 23 September 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

I am reposting this here from the other "complaint" post as it applies all the same..

Mickey Knoxx, on 23 September 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Personally I think people are missing the ultimate goal some are trying to achieve..

With what some presume will be coming with CW. Where they hope and intend on fighting for territories as a 12 man. Taking the opportunity we have now to grow from a 4 man, to a 5, to a 6 and so on. Working up to a functional semi competitive unit to actually be effective against people who have had established 12 man groups for a couple years on here. Using this time to work out effective group builds and strats while not being fed straight to the sharks when it happens.

So what it seems is there allot of casual players who have no long term goals to try to do the same. And are only focused on the match to match satisfaction of a win or loss without any concern for what is to hopefully come.

So many have complained about "lack of content" or "no objective" to the game. However when it appears the goal is in sight, rather than seize the opportunity to build up now, they just focus on trying to keep the rest down to where they are.

Done..

Edited by Mickey Knoxx, 23 September 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Squally160]

Akulla1980, on 23 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

In other words your worried about loosing your ability to keep ur stranglehold over small groups. Did you ever think if the group queue was more attractive to smaller groups, that u might keep pilots in the queue, then they might join up with a larger group. Net result being more competitive matches and less stomps.

Nope. We are worried you will get in our way of fun because you want to play casually, with bad mechs, with only a few friends, and completely refuse to accept that the majority (according to you as well) want to play competative games.

[1453 R]

Shredhead, on 23 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

I agree on the losses. It's most often as frustrating and cringeworthy as playing in solo queue. However, I can make sure I get my share on every win we get in a 2 man team, my buddies as well. Maybe you should take a day and drop with an open minded unit in 12 mans, for example Jaeger's Meat Shield Mondays, to get a grasp on group tactics. You'll be able to keep up way better and contribute.

Unfortunately it doesn’t really work that way. There isn’t a single unit in this game which, if asked “Hey! Would you guys be willing to kick open a Slot 12 for that 1453-R guy from the forums for a game or two?”, would respond with anything other than either “…who? o_O” or “man, that scrub? Hell no.” Other than CWDG, which isn’t an option for entirely separate issues specific to myself.

Heh…I’m not a particular popular or well-thought-of guy around these parts, or well-known enough to be worth the bother for most any particular team. Also a reason why public TS servers are generally contra-indicated. Beyond needing to leave my personality at home any time I might choose to venture onto such a thing, the first time I ran into someone from around here who knew me, it’d be a case of “GTFO YOU S***HEAD”.

Shredhead, on 23 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

And hopefully these ideas can bring better experiences for everyone. Until they are implemented, however, we can't offer you anything besides some good advice, our own ideas and a substitute in form of trying to make you visit our TS and play with other like minded people.

Which is why I keep trying to champion discussion and understanding on the topic. I have no idea what the right answer is, but so long as we can admit that it is a problem in need of a solution and keep a dialogue open on the subject, someone more inventive than I am will at some point come up with a right answer, or as close to one as we’re ever likely to get anyways.

[Squally160]

1453 R, on 23 September 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Unfortunately it doesn’t really work that way. There isn’t a single unit in this game which, if asked “Hey! Would you guys be willing to kick open a Slot 12 for that 1453-R guy from the forums for a game or two?”, would respond with anything other than either “…who? o_O” or “man, that scrub? Hell no.” Other than CWDG, which isn’t an option for entirely separate issues specific to myself.

Heh…I’m not a particular popular or well-thought-of guy around these parts, or well-known enough to be worth the bother for most any particular team. Also a reason why public TS servers are generally contra-indicated. Beyond needing to leave my personality at home any time I might choose to venture onto such a thing, the first time I ran into someone from around here who knew me, it’d be a case of “GTFO YOU S***HEAD”.



Which is why I keep trying to champion discussion and understanding on the topic. I have no idea what the right answer is, but so long as we can admit that it is a problem in need of a solution and keep a dialogue open on the subject, someone more inventive than I am will at some point come up with a right answer, or as close to one as we’re ever likely to get anyways.

Cant edit easily so sorry.

We constantly pick up smaller groups and get them on coms with us. We are very open door about it to. Pm me and ill get you info.

[9thDeathscream]

DarthRevis, on 23 September 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Akulla, Stop spamming the thread, you do not need to keep beating the same dead horse and quoting everything everyone says. We understand you stance so please let someone else get some ideas in before you drown them out with your constant spam.

Dunno weather you have some Agenda or not but being fanatic is not going to get you anywhere....let people talk about it. We know how you feel from the 40 post you have put on this thread disagreeing and insulting just about everyone who isnt in the same boat as you.

At this point i dont care what happens to the Large Queue, either way everyone will hate playing us and we will still do just fine im sure. Just wish we could get more 12's to play against because going agaisnt people who cant even express their opinions without sounding like children more then likely cant play better then them either.




WE both know why it doesn't work....you hid it in you reply and i flat out said it....SMALL PLAYER BASE!

I never said to stop playing....i play small groups all the time and do my best every day to bring new players on board because that is THE ONLY WAY MM will be fixed in its current operation. Also never said "Deal with it" you must have no understood what i wrote and are now putting words in my mouth. I said a larger player base could potentially fix it. So get more friends involved....


BTW im sorry your friend is insulted you are better then him at a game you clearly have played more then him (which doesn't make sense) but i would never ask a buddy of mine to keep up on foot while i ride my Dirt bike....id ditch the bike and start huffing it right next to him. But maybe id rather have the personal time with a good person then worry about my ELO, W/L, or anything else.....to each his own i guess not saying my idea is better then yours but to each his own. Which is the problem Russ has stated....everyone wants something different and you cant please everyone.

Darth so u don't like what you are reading. Well tough. Truth hurts.

I have a right to voice my opinion here or anywhere else. As many times as i wan't. I don't come to your house, hold open your eyes and force you to read it.

I am done with this topic.

Edited by Akulla1980, 23 September 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Squally160]

Akulla1980, on 23 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Darth so u don't like what you are reading. Well tough. Truth hurts.

I dont want to get forum banned over something so dumb, so I will keep it civil.

Get out aku. We get it. You are butthurt on the highest of levels.