481 replies to this topic

[VixNix]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 September 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

Soooo ....

Somebody is playing for lulz with no intend to work on their skill, their builds and bother about teamwork. They get constantly outplayed by people who do work on their skill, their mechs and use teamwork.

Can anyone please explain to me where is the problem? Because I see none.

This is a competitive game by nature. You are either competitive yourself, or you are casual. If you are casual prepare to get rolled often. Plus, if you are casual as you claim why you even bring this "can't drop with friends" topic? You can't group up with any number of friends between 2 and 10? Or you are waiting for a match for like 2 hours like 12-mans used to?

If you are playing for fun then get fun from the process regardless of winning/losing. And if you can only get fun when winning then you aren't one bit casual.

Then there are the people who do work on that, but only play a few hours a week...

AND

Then there are the people who do work on that and want to bring friends in who have never played before or played very little...

AND ETC...

YOU see none because you have what you want here and can see nothing else.

You state the issue in your response and can't see it... "If you are casual prepare to get rolled often."

I personally don't care win or lose, I care about having fun doing it, and I don't know anyone who says truthfully after being stomped into the dirt with no chance to do anything "Gee that was fun!".

[-Natural Selection-]

The Wakelord, on 24 September 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

Agree 100% Worse than PUGs in that sense, as the majority of the team is presumably on teamspeak or something, so we just have to assume they know what they are doing and try to guess (like a PUG), while they do their own thing (like a team).

You know why? I am going to assume other groups have picked up the habit like ours.. Spent quite a while strying to spell out what we were doing every match to only have the "You are not the boss of me" (as many respond) run off and do their own thing any way.

So now we just assume they are going to do what the hell ever they want. And the FEW that speak up and ask "whats the plan?", one of our assaults GLADLY walk them through it while doing the slow walk.

TLDR; people ask, we gladly fill them in. They don't, we hope they will follow the group but assume they will run out and die and glorious death.

[Valore]

So what happens with people who want to play drunk? Are they even more casual? Should we have a SUPER CASUAL queue to cater for them? And should we start different levels of casualness?

[PhoenixFire55]

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

Then there are the people who do work on that, but only play a few hours a week...

So? I play football a few hours a week. I demand NFL to change matchmaker so I can win superbowl at least once in two years. Get real.

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

Then there are the people who do work on that and want to bring friends in who have never played before or played very little...

Lobby.

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

YOU see none because you have what you want here and can see nothing else.

I see none because there is none. So far it just "I'm a baddie but I want to win too, PGI fix this whaa whaa whaa". If you are a casual player you don't care. You are having fun just driving stompy robots and shooting crap. Casual players don't come with tears all over the forum, only baddies do. No offense.

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

You state the issue in your response and can't see it... "If you are casual prepare to get rolled often."

Just as it is in any other PvP game. Try EVE. That'll change your opinion on how casuals are having hard time in MWO.

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

I personally don't care win or lose, I care about having fun doing it, and I don't know anyone who says truthfully after being stomped into the dirt with no chance to do anything "Gee that was fun!".

Sure, blame your own lack of cohesion on matchmaker, PGI or whatever. Yeah, big organized groups do drop vs casuals at times, but it happens like 1 out of 100 times, the other 99 times its casuals being rolled by same casuals on the other side. Why? Because when there are 24 people in game with absolutely no clue the result is totally random.

[Andross Deverow]

I would like to see Russ comment on this issue as it is a real issue.

Regards.

[VixNix]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 September 2014 - 04:11 AM, said:

So? I play football a few hours a week. I demand NFL to change matchmaker so I can win superbowl at least once in two years. Get real.

Lobby.

I see none because there is none. So far it just "I'm a baddie but I want to win too, PGI fix this whaa whaa whaa". If you are a casual player you don't care. You are having fun just driving stompy robots and shooting crap. Casual players don't come with tears all over the forum, only baddies do. No offense.

Just as it is in any other PvP game. Try EVE. That'll change your opinion on how casuals are having hard time in MWO.

Sure, blame your own lack of cohesion on matchmaker, PGI or whatever. Yeah, big organized groups do drop vs casuals at times, but it happens like 1 out of 100 times, the other 99 times its casuals being rolled by same casuals on the other side. Why? Because when there are 24 people in game with absolutely no clue the result is totally random.

You keep bringing up the reasons why its broken and don't see it...

Do you play foot ball vs the NFL?
NO
Why not, because you can't get in.
Do you demand to get in?
NO
Why not, because they will kill you and you WONT HAVE ANY FUN.


Lobby what?
I brought in 5 IRL friends to the game, only 1 still plays, why did the others stop.... NO FUN.

I am not the worlds greatest player, I do have a positive k/d ratio, do you assume because I want to have fun I am a bad player?
Again I state you see no issues because YOU have what YOU want and no one else is entitled to opinions...

Why would I play EVE?
I don't play games I don't enjoy, that's the point here, make it fun or lose a lot of players.

There have been tons of posts showing the end games with 12-0, 12-a few stomps and until we can see the real numbers you can go and spot your trash elsewhere, you don't even see that you don't make sense.

Edited by VixNix, 24 September 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[Hoax415]

Man all I have to say is you people are really going to be QQ'ing if CW comes out and you expect it to cater to your casual but I deserve 50%+ winrate mentality.

[Gyrok]

Akulla1980, on 23 September 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I have 2 boys who play this game and they avoid the group queue like it has the plague.

A 10 and 11 year old saying that group queue is horrible and NO FUN. Man outa the mouth of babes. Do you guys need anybody else to tell you whats happening? How small groups are being hammered.

The issue is small groups are not really getting hammered. On average you do not see large groups in queue unless one of the following is true:

1. Your ELO is sufficiently low enough to balance out a big group.

Or

2. Your ELO is sufficiently high enough you need to be balanced out.

Now, this does suck for some, but it should not be a surprise.

This is an online multiplayer PVP game. The queues will be what they are because the player base is not sufficiently large enough to allow tighter ELO gating.

So, play during prime time when your odds of having a better player pool are dramaticaly higher...or...*gasp* join a group and pick up a couple guys to drop as a 5-6 man on comms so you can actually have a bigger impact on the outcome. Sure you will still win and lose, but your outcome will see marked improvement. Groups around 4-6 are probably the sweet spot right now in terms of being able to directly effect the outcome of a match without running into large groups. Much smaller and you get matched with 9-10 mans and much bigger you become the large groups you see in the group queue.

Edited by Gyrok, 24 September 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[Squally160]

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

You keep bringing up the reasons why its broken and don't see it...

Do you play foot ball vs the NFL?
NO
Why not, because you can't get in.
Do you demand to get in?
NO
Why not, because they will kill you and you WONT HAVE ANY FUN.


Lobby what?
I brought in 5 IRL friends to the game, only 1 still plays, why did the others stop.... NO FUN.

I am not the worlds greatest player, I do have a positive k/d ratio, do you assume because I want to have fun I am a bad player?
Again I state you see no issues because YOU have what YOU want and no one else is entitled to opinions...

Why would I play EVE?
I don't play games I don't enjoy, that's the point here, make it fun or lose a lot of players.

There have been tons of posts showing the end games with 12-0, 12-a few stomps and until we can see the real numbers you can go and spot your trash elsewhere, you don't even see that you don't make sense.

We fought for a usable group q and now you "casuals" (read: lazy players) dont want to have to fight to win. Sorry. But if we go up against you we arent goin to hold back because you feel entitled to play against people only of your mindset.

If that was the case, us "big bad groups" should feel bad too because we keep being forced to either play against you or even have you on our team. You are a waste of our time. Your mindset is a waste of our time. Im sorry you somehow feel that your playstyle is the best, but it isnt.

[L A V A]

The community obviously cannot support a competitive 12 man queue.

If PGI wants to promote competitive playing there should be an 8-man queue... as in 8v8.

If PGI want to continue to allow 10/12 mans to stomp people's faces in and destroy the community, they should leave things as they are.

Edited by xLAVAx, 24 September 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Valore]

There's a massive fallacy here.

Small groups claim they're being destroyed by big groups all the time.

Yet dropping as a big group, I'd say only one out of 10 matches, we face another big group.


Both sides can't be telling the truth.

I'm more than happy to take up the following challenge from anyone who claims they only face big groups:

1. Play games in groups.

2. Take post-game screenshots. These must be validated as recent by you posting the word 'CHALLENGE' in chat before taking the screenshot.

3. Post all the screenshots here of all the big bad groups trashing you.

I'm willing to bet if I do this, I'll come up with more screenshots of me facing random mashup groups, than you will facing 12 man groups.

There. Challenge on the table. Anyone who still insists otherwise that there are millions of big organised groups ruining the group queue, go ahead. Take it up.

Edited by Valore, 24 September 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

Squally160, on 24 September 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

We fought for a usable group q and now you "casuals" (read: lazy players) dont want to have to fight to win. Sorry. But if we go up against you we arent goin to hold back because you feel entitled to play against people only of your mindset.

If that was the case, us "big bad groups" should feel bad too because we keep being forced to either play against you or even have you on our team. You are a waste of our time. Your mindset is a waste of our time. Im sorry you somehow feel that your playstyle is the best, but it isnt.

The game needs to cater to more than just clans/units or it will die. Alot of the player base is casual due to real life working/families and such, you cannot begrudge people for that and niether shoud PGI. This elite attitude some people have just plain amazes me. I have a unit I play with that unit but...... If there are not many of us online which happens from time to time it does suck to drop with 3 players and get pounded by organized 10-12 man teams. There is room for improvement somehow they just need to put a little effort into it. Make a separate que for smaller groups, sure it will maybe bump up wait times a bit for larger group "Pro's" but so be it.

Regards

[Squally160]

Andross Deverow, on 24 September 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

The game needs to cater to more than just clans/units or it will die. Alot of the player base is casual due to real life working/families and such, you cannot begrudge people for that and niether shoud PGI. This elite attitude some people have just plain amazes me. I have a unit I play with that unit but...... If there are not many of us online which happens from time to time it does suck to drop with 3 players and get pounded by organized 10-12 man teams. There is room for improvement somehow they just need to put a little effort into it. Make a separate que for smaller groups, sure it will maybe bump up wait times a bit for larger group "Pro's" but so be it.

Regards

Why are you more important then me? That is my point.

Also, pulling small teams into a different que will mean no longer can groups of 9 or 10 or even 8 play anymore. Wed have to have: small group que.
8 man q
12 man q
Do you REALLY want to split the playerbase more in hopes of keeping people around?

[Andross Deverow]

Squally160, on 24 September 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Why are you more important then me? That is my point.

Also, pulling small teams into a different que will mean no longer can groups of 9 or 10 or even 8 play anymore. Wed have to have: small group que.
8 man q
12 man q
Do you REALLY want to split the playerbase more in hopes of keeping people around?

Goes both ways, no one should be more important than anyone else and that is the kunundrum. PGI needs to try and keep all players satisfied and having fun or the game dies. I just think that they are not looking at the smaller groups at all by making groups smaller than 4 play games that have the potential of being against fully organized 10-12 man teams. Its not fair.

Regards

[TLBFestus]

Personally I think that this is the biggest issue facing PGI at this point.

Why?

Because it creates a "barrier" to new players. Sure there are lots of solo players out there, but I'm thinking that there is an equally large number of casual players that just want to group up and play together and just have fun.

The current model punishes them too much and it hurts player retention. Player retention is the LIFEBLOOD of a game and as such should be paramount in the Devs eyes.

I'm not sure it can be done, but perhaps if they allowed 1-4 mans in the solo queue (1-3?), but only allowed 1 group per match, it might help. Yes, it might take longer to find a match, but I'm willing to bet many of the small groups would be willing to wait.

Eventually (?) they might have lobbies and let the players create matches and that would help too.
PGI really does need to come up with something to solve this.

[Lily from animove]

The issue is the teamplay and competitive situation.

2 skilled players team up go to temaspeak and play. they are a high competitive thing and a thread for a pug.

Then you have the other guys, socialising puggers.

Pugger one drops with pugger two. Makes a cheap joke in chat and pugger two laughs. They make friendship, and just wanna play together. They don't even use any team speak or other voip stuff. Skillwise, they are now not better teamed up as before where MM randomly threw them together. But now they are Group queue, an entirely different world. And thats kinda not working well, so they may quit their group and drop solo together. Which is hardly the sense of an online game.
Same would be when i drop with a newbie friend. He is not much different from "me teamed up dropping in Pug" than "me dropping alone in OPug + getting a random bob instead of him." . And this is the true issue, because right now the game judges everyone in a group as higher skilled competitive players. Why? not enough players to create an elo gap which seperates "pug groups" from competitive goups. And so the attemp of socialising for newbies and low skilled players is somethign they may not wanna do at all.

[VixNix]

Hoax415, on 24 September 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Man all I have to say is you people are really going to be QQ'ing if CW comes out and you expect it to cater to your casual but I deserve 50%+ winrate mentality.

When the player base drops out because they only cater to the rest of you then what?

[girl on fire]

it seems to me 99% of the problems with communication between large and small premade groups on the same team would be... Now, stay with me here, I know this is crazy... But let's just say, HYPOTHETICALLY, in some alternate universe where this is the standard that... There be in game VOIP.

[Andross Deverow]

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

When the player base drops out because they only cater to the rest of you then what?

New player comes in game with a friend that invited them to try it out..... New guy and his friend get roflstomped multiple times by an organized team of 10-12 players...... New guy says "jeez, this game isnt for me", goes plays something else and takes his wallet with him.

Regards

Edited by Andross Deverow, 24 September 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[VixNix]

Squally160, on 24 September 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

We fought for a usable group q and now you "casuals" (read: lazy players) dont want to have to fight to win. Sorry. But if we go up against you we arent goin to hold back because you feel entitled to play against people only of your mindset.

If that was the case, us "big bad groups" should feel bad too because we keep being forced to either play against you or even have you on our team. You are a waste of our time. Your mindset is a waste of our time. Im sorry you somehow feel that your playstyle is the best, but it isnt.

I'm not lazy.

I don't want people to hold back.

I want to be able to queue with friends and have fun.

I'm asking for "us" to have a place to play so you can stop bitching about "us".

Why is you feel entitled to have everything your way?

You didn't build this, you don't own it...

I didn't ask to be on your team.