178 replies to this topic

[Mott]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 September 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

It's not a big issue, it's just the reason why big side torsos are a benefit, not a hindrance.

Ahh, i see, i took your post out of context. Sorry.

But, i'd still say that having a massive side torso that attracts a bunch of enemy fire, and in short order causes you to lose 50% (1 ST + 1 Arm) of your firepower, significantly overshadows the small benefit that having a partial shield provides once you're gimped.

Also, a gimped mech is really affected visibly in this game. As soon as other pilots see your smoking, armless, ST-less mech crawling for cover you begin attracting twice as much fire as you were just seconds earlier. A shield torso doesn't help you much at that point.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 September 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

[/size]

The first thing pretty much anyone's going to do when customizing a mad dog is max its armor.

Yes I already assumed it would have max armor. I was just saying I have 5 tons of armor over him in the catapult.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 September 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

But you were still wrong, because a mad dog can do 6xASRM6 with max armor, plenty of ammo, and some back up lasers.

The catapult has mobility, and slightly higher armor/hit points, but far inferior hit boxes.

In a duel, the MDD wins if he can use the laser range advantage, but IMO it's a moot point, because if 6xSRM6 heavies were a major factor then the A1 would still be a commonly-used brawling mech.

The MDD isn't OP, but the A1 still can't beat it in a duel, realistically.

Me and the OP were talking about 6 srm6 builds vs each other. Of course there are different loadouts available to the Mad dog but that was not what we were specifically talking about. I dont mind other discussion on the topic of Mad dogs vs Catapults but please try not to but in and say I am wrong because you created a different situation than me and the op were talking about.

If anything goes, who knows who would win, it mostly depends on pilot skill, but I agree a slight nod to the Mad dog for a better overall mech. I see splatcats now and then and take mine out for a hoot once in a while, and they can still be very devastating if you know how to sneak in at the right time, or JJ poptart up and alpha someone unsuspecting.

Edited by Alwrath, 24 September 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[TamCoan]

I guess my question is, if a mad-dog can take out the catapult in a duel, does it really matter all that much? Everything has a counter/bad matchup.

[zagibu]

This 6xSRM6 build is pretty brutal on the new map. One wrong turn and your whole armor is stripped from your whole mech.

[CygnusX7]

OOOOHHHH WEEEEE LOOK AT ALL THE WEAPONZ!!!!111!!!!
HOT AS * * * * ! ie: It has to be piloted correctly.

[TamCoan]

CygnusX7, on 24 September 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

OOOOHHHH WEEEEE LOOK AT ALL THE WEAPONZ!!!!111!!!!
HOT AS * * * * ! ie: It has to be piloted correctly.

Yeah, I stripped two of them off so I could upgrade armor, larger arm weapons and to add some heatsinks.

[MischiefSC]

My new Dire build does 122pts in 2.5 seconds. I can burn death on people for about 6 seconds before it starts to overheat. Which is overkill plenty.

Mad dog don't bug me.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I find the 6x SSRM4+A build to be much more effective than using 6x SRMs. When chainfired they just wreck people, and any light that comes across your path is dead, period.

Having a 370m range of doom doesn't hurt either.

Edited by Kevjack, 24 September 2014 - 11:39 AM.

[mongo2006]

Ummm.. all that heat, virtually no ammo.. i'm sorry what where you crying about?... tears and snot dude..

[Koniving]

So, funny thing...

I can make a Quickdraw with 97.4 firepower, and all of it is compatible.

Is that 107 damage compatible in a single strike and pinpoint? Because my Quickdraw is 57.14% pinpoint. It also explodes after doing it.

You got SRMs (essentially shotguns) and lasers that take longer than one second to deal their full damage.

...You're kidding right?

There are 150 damage Stalker builds, and you're concerned about this?
Thing is those Stalker builds mean nothing. Your fancy build? Means nothing.

Those 6 SRM-6s generate 29.40 heat with ghost heat (shame this isn't thirty threshold, we'd all laugh at how pathetic your 'omg OP' build is...

36 heat for 5 ER ML.

That's 65.4 heat in a single shot.
With the maximum amount of DHS I can fit in, without ANY ammo... (so I fit in more than you can possibly carry). I got 25 DHS.

So here we go.
30 + (10 * 2 unseen engine DHS) + (15 *1.4 PGI edited DHS that are seen) = 71 + 20% heat containment = 85.2 threshold.
(71 - 30 / 10 seconds + 15% cool run = 4.715//sec cooling.)

There it is by hand and calculator.
By the neutral party (MWO Heat Sim).
Cooling Rate : 4.71 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 85.2

The heat sim cuts off the thousandths place, judging by the lack of going up it assumes that is cut off. That or the actual number is 4.7149999999 and my calculator rounded up.

Either way.

85.2 - 65.4 = 76.76% threshold in one shot.
Assuming you wait 5.03 seconds (the time required for ALL weapons to reprime to fire)...

41.82 heat left over then you fire again + 65.4 heat = 107.25 heat = hefty damage.



Of course... if we had the proper system, fired across 10 seconds you'd be fine. Fired all at once? You'd instantly explode at 65.4 over 30 which is 218% heat. Killed by ammo explosion/overheating.

Either way the build is a joke.
And here's a stronger alpha strike. But good luck containing your laughter at how pathetically bad it would work.

[Kubernetes]

It's certainly a brutal build if you get within SRM range. And so what if it's not heat efficient? It will tear open most assaults with two salvos. And yeah it's way superior to a Splatcat because 4 ERMLs are nothing to laugh at. Even if it runs out of ammo it's still packing a respectable midrange punch. I don't see the need for nerf though. People are definitely packing more SRMs these days, but they're hardly OP.

[Russ Bullock]

I think the main point to remember is that this mech will be available for C-Bills.

Look at Wave 1 now - we have four available for C-Bills ans before long even the MadCat will be out for C-Bills as well

[Weaselball]

To be honest I went up against a few of them last night in my Atlas, and I'm still more afraid of going up against a Timber/Dire than the SplatDog.

[Metus regem]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I think the main point to remember is that this mech will be available for C-Bills.

Look at Wave 1 now - we have four available for C-Bills ans before long even the MadCat will be out for C-Bills as well

Not cool Russ...

"We do not have Mad Cats, we have Timber Wolves."
--Phelan Kell

But at leas that is along the lines of what I've been saying, give them time to hit c-bills and people will have the chance to use them and build a more complete opinion on the mech.

[Alistair Winter]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I think the main point to remember is that this mech will be available for C-Bills.

Look at Wave 1 now - we have four available for C-Bills ans before long even the MadCat will be out for C-Bills as well

I don't mean to be obtuse, but... isn't that somewhat irrelevant? I think most people are bothered by the impression that the Mad Dog that it's OP. Not that it's P2W. Although if it is OP, then it still opens up a P2W discussion.

But that's not what this thread is about, as far as I can tell. Most of the people with pitchforks and torches are just concerned that this mech is hideously OP.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I think the main point to remember is that this mech will be available for C-Bills.

Look at Wave 1 now - we have four available for C-Bills ans before long even the MadCat will be out for C-Bills as well

Russ, to be very honest, I think the Main Point isn't the MC-only or the Preorder-Only...

It's that we're having a hard time thinking of any IS Mech that competes with the Mad Dog on a ton-for-ton basis given the Mad Dog's quantity of hardpoints and missile tubes... and the death-resistant XL engine.

A Mad Dog available for C-Bills is still a Mad Dog.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 24 September 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Everything is OP to someone. It is whatever killed them last apparently.

I've already posted about a match last night where this build completely dominated and (last man left and wiped out 4 for the win) but it has severe limitations:

Limited Ammo
Short Range
Glass cannon-fails apart fast under fire

24 hrs after release, its already OP. Just like when the Hellbringer was announced--people calling for nerfs months ahead of its release.

[Metus regem]

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Russ, to be very honest, I think the Main Point isn't the MC-only or the Preorder-Only...

It's that we're having a hard time thinking of any IS Mech that competes with the Mad Dog on a ton-for-ton basis given the Mad Dog's quantity of hardpoints and missile tubes... and the death-resistant XL engine.

A Mad Dog available for C-Bills is still a Mad Dog.

I think I said something a few days back about the calls for blood will shift from the Timber Wolf to the Mad Dog, when she came out... sure seems like I was right...

higher alpha damage possibility? Check!

lower weight? Check!

same speed? Check!

Nearly the same armour? Check!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Kain Thul, on 24 September 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Everything is OP to someone. It is whatever killed them last apparently.

I've already posted about a match last night where this build completely dominated and (last man left and wiped out 4 for the win) but it has severe limitations:

Limited Ammo
Short Range
Glass cannon-fails apart fast under fire

24 hrs after release, its already OP. Just like when the Hellbringer was announced--people calling for nerfs months ahead of its release.

People were calling the TimberWolf overpowered before its release, too.

Sometimes predictions are correct.