178 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I raise you a 145 alphadog!

MDD-PRIME

[Kain Demos]

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

People were calling the TimberWolf overpowered before its release, too.

Sometimes predictions are correct.

I predict endless bitching and moaning about such and such being OP followed by nerfs to it. Then the next best thing will be called OP until the bitching and moaning wins out and it gets nerfed. Now the first things that got nerfed are called UP and get buffs....leading back to where we started and the circle continues.

Yes, sometimes predictions are correct. I predict plenty of QQ threads for the lifetime of this game.

[Metus regem]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 24 September 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I raise you a 145 alphadog!

MDD-PRIME

I'd drop a heat sink and add Clan Active Probe.... Still I'd run it for shits and giggles in a match.

[STEF_]

Oh well.... I'm keeping chewing mad dog match after match with my shadowhawk 2D....
I'm starting to doubt about if it's really OP.....

[Lefty Lucy]

Mott, on 24 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Ahh, i see, i took your post out of context. Sorry.

But, i'd still say that having a massive side torso that attracts a bunch of enemy fire, and in short order causes you to lose 50% (1 ST + 1 Arm) of your firepower, significantly overshadows the small benefit that having a partial shield provides once you're gimped.

Also, a gimped mech is really affected visibly in this game. As soon as other pilots see your smoking, armless, ST-less mech crawling for cover you begin attracting twice as much fire as you were just seconds earlier. A shield torso doesn't help you much at that point.

Front load your armor, and accept that 60 ton mechs only have 60 ton mech armor.

[Lefty Lucy]

Alwrath, on 24 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yes I already assumed it would have max armor. I was just saying I have 5 tons of armor over him in the catapult.

But you don't. 65 ton mechs can only equip about a half ton more armor than 60 ton mechs. The 60 ton mech has two less hit points in every torso and leg location as well. While the Cat has higher payload after max armor, the MDD has lighter weapons so it can equip more guns/ammo/heat sinks.

In the end Clan tech and superior hitboxes make the MDD superior to the A1, but the A1 isn't really a "tier 1" mech regardless, so that's no proof that the MDD is overpowered: simply more powerful than a second-rate IS heavy.

[Weaselball]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 September 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

But you don't. 65 ton mechs can only equip about a half ton more armor than 60 ton mechs. The 60 ton mech has two less hit points in every torso and leg location as well. While the Cat has higher payload after max armor, the MDD has lighter weapons so it can equip more guns/ammo/heat sinks.

In the end Clan tech and superior hitboxes make the MDD superior to the A1, but the A1 isn't really a "tier 1" mech regardless, so that's no proof that the MDD is overpowered: simply more powerful than a second-rate IS heavy.

'Atta girl Lucy :-D

[KharnZor]

Koniving, on 24 September 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

So, funny thing...

I can make a Quickdraw with 97.4 firepower, and all of it is compatible.

Is that 107 damage compatible in a single strike and pinpoint? Because my Quickdraw is 57.14% pinpoint. It also explodes after doing it.

You got SRMs (essentially shotguns) and lasers that take longer than one second to deal their full damage.

...You're kidding right?

There are 150 damage Stalker builds, and you're concerned about this?
Thing is those Stalker builds mean nothing. Your fancy build? Means nothing.

Those 6 SRM-6s generate 29.40 heat with ghost heat (shame this isn't thirty threshold, we'd all laugh at how pathetic your 'omg OP' build is...

36 heat for 5 ER ML.

That's 65.4 heat in a single shot.
With the maximum amount of DHS I can fit in, without ANY ammo... (so I fit in more than you can possibly carry). I got 25 DHS.

So here we go.
30 + (10 * 2 unseen engine DHS) + (15 *1.4 PGI edited DHS that are seen) = 71 + 20% heat containment = 85.2 threshold.
(71 - 30 / 10 seconds + 15% cool run = 4.715//sec cooling.)

There it is by hand and calculator.
By the neutral party (MWO Heat Sim).
Cooling Rate : 4.71 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 85.2

The heat sim cuts off the thousandths place, judging by the lack of going up it assumes that is cut off. That or the actual number is 4.7149999999 and my calculator rounded up.

Either way.

85.2 - 65.4 = 76.76% threshold in one shot.
Assuming you wait 5.03 seconds (the time required for ALL weapons to reprime to fire)...

41.82 heat left over then you fire again + 65.4 heat = 107.25 heat = hefty damage.



Of course... if we had the proper system, fired across 10 seconds you'd be fine. Fired all at once? You'd instantly explode at 65.4 over 30 which is 218% heat. Killed by ammo explosion/overheating.

Either way the build is a joke.
And here's a stronger alpha strike. But good luck containing your laughter at how pathetically bad it would work.

[Bront]

SI The Joker, on 23 September 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Don't forget about the side torsos the size of Lake Superior.

And a CT you can hit from the side.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 24 September 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I raise you a 145 alphadog!

MDD-PRIME

I saw one that kind on Frozen, he wased 4 salvoes trying to hit my IS assault, but than was punished badly. All those MadDog MadBuilds nothing just a bullsh!t. Or such builds like 2xERMLL+2PPC+6xSRM6 or SSRM6, easy to eat that clanfood while he is cooling down. Try to ult in game when there is a enemy mech capable to deliver 4x48 damage to you before overheat when you can't even shot your alpha. Make my day.

ryoken12, on 23 September 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

All this whining over a mech that has paper armour, and extreme heat issues. What will happen when they release the Kodiak, or Novacat for clans.
Or the Devastator or Thunderhalk, Pilager for the IS. And hell if y ever release Arrow IV missiles, or those Uber 3075 Comstar mechs with 2/3 pilots.
Those Kurita MRMs will be nasty, not to mention MMLs and plasma cannons if thyrelease them.
So all in all people no worries. There ill always be something OP thn nerfed, tn OP again. So learn to live with it, ad adapt.

You forget that PLG carry twin GR or AC20 in torsos, I means that it can easy carry such biuld as 3xERLL or 3xLPL + twin Heavy Gauss Rifle... or even 3xHPPC+2xHGR which means that 95 damage will be delivered at least twice or 3 times before overheat. 95x3=285 damage, pinpoint. TRO3070 good to roll IS to the top of food chain.

I just leave this'ere...



Firstly my dear clanfangirls you need a deal with KGC, than prepare that after "clanbusters" you'll get screwed with "Jihad spectres" such as DVS and PLG.

[-Natural Selection-]

Or you could just run the 9 erppc Direwolf. Lots of cram crap on builds out there, don't mean they will work good.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ph30nix, on 23 September 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

yea its nice having all those launchers and lasers sad that with heat limitations you can only fire one or the other. You fire all at once you will cook or just BARELY avoid shut down but then your dead in the water for about 20 seconds.

i love how people fail to realize the limitations heat introduces and no you can not fit enough heat sink in to counteract that much extra heat.

Clan weapons and their low weight at BEST give you one good alpha after that your firepower goes to absolute crap until you cooldown. in the end most clan weapons turn into situational ones or back ups. my direwolf has 2 gauss 2 LL 6 ML and i use the gauss and LL 80% of the time, i use the ML in oh **** moments or when i have all my heat available to try and throw everything i have at someone, if i dont kill them im usualy going to take a beating. especially if its an assault.

also,even with artemis, they group laughably bad. 40 PP damage is a heck of a lot more useful than 100 spread over the whole target.

[Willard Phule]

Glythe, on 23 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Really?

So it's an A1 splatcat with 6 srm 6 but it also has lasers.

And you're trying to say this game isn't pay to win?



I haven't even patched but I know that is just asking for trouble. On the one hand you're trying to get people to play with less high alpha builds and on the other hand you come out with this monster.

Can it do that 107 damage without overheating, shutting down and dying like a Dragon in the next 5 seconds?

[Glythe]

Alwrath, on 24 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I was talking about strictly a 6x srm6 build vs each other.

And that's ridiculous because if I have 800m max range lasers and you have 270m max range missiles I will most certainly use my speed and long range to force you to rush me. You will never win unless the battle starts inside your max range (close enough where the clan mech can't just turn and run away out of your missile range).



The problem that no one seems to be noticing is that the IS mech is once again left so far behind in the dust by comparison. Everyone keeps saying well there are other 100 firepower mechs in the game. There are no equals among the same intended role in the same weight class.

The level of buffs needed to make the IS mech a fair fight against the clan mech is quite staggering. What are these quirks going to be? They pretty much have to start with mostly removing ghost heat rules for the IS mechs because the clan mechs basically already have this (by intelligently skirting ghost heat rules with extra weapon hardpoint choices).

Given the choice no one would bother with an A1 if they had the Mad Dog. That's the definition of poor design. The choice should be something like I can either go left (catapult) or right (Mad Dog). It shouldn't be the choice of a free dinner at Captain D's or a free dinner at a 4 star seafood seafood restaurant.

It's fine that the Mad Dog will be available for Cbills. My question is when will it be roughly equal to the catapult as a missile delivery system?

Edited by Glythe, 24 September 2014 - 07:03 PM.

[Logan Hawke]

I'm about 99% sure that these forums are filled with more screams of 'This isn't fair because I say so!' than dumblr. It just never ends and it never comes out as anything constructive. Just bitching and whining.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Logan Hawke, on 25 September 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

I'm about 99% sure that these forums are filled with more screams of 'This isn't fair because I say so!' than dumblr. It just never ends and it never comes out as anything constructive. Just bitching and whining.

I'll expand on this and say it goes both ways though. A lot of people scream "Don't touch this, its fine because I say so".

With a lot of different people, different experiences and different agendas all on one forum, you will get radically different ideas on what is fair and what isn't.

One thing is sure, there are a lot of opinions and the right one is rarely one extreme or another, its generally in the middle ground somewhere.

[Duran Vancor]

What's with the "It's sooooo hot" nonsense?

MDD-A

86 damage alpha
8.3 sutained dps
39% heat efficiancy
6 tons of ammo

Everybody here knows this is beyond overpowered. It's actually damaging the game over time and will only get worse as more and more c-bill Clans will be available.

The only difference is, some players actually admit they want Clans to be better than Innerspheres. I disagree with them, but they are at least honest.

Claiming Clans are even remotely comparable to Innersphere mechs is just dishonest and damaging for this game. How many Innersphere mechs will we see in a couple of months? I fear not many. Mine will sit in their hangars, I know that much.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Duran Vancor, on 25 September 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

What's with the "It's sooooo hot" nonsense?

MDD-A

86 damage alpha
8.3 sutained dps
39% heat efficiancy
6 tons of ammo

Everybody here knows this is beyond overpowered. It's actually damaging the game over time and will only get worse as more and more c-bill Clans will be available.

The only difference is, some players actually admit they want Clans to be better than Innerspheres. I disagree with them, but they are at least honest.

Claiming Clans are even remotely comparable to Innersphere mechs is just dishonest and damaging for this game. How many Innersphere mechs will we see in a couple of months? I fear not many. Mine will sit in their hangars, I know that much.

Except that is not the build everyone is saying is too hot is it, i mean lets just shift the goal post of the topic!

SRM spread is laughable, even worse without Artemis.

[Mott]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

also,even with artemis, they group laughably bad. 40 PP damage is a heck of a lot more useful than 100 spread over the whole target.

I only just recently noticed how bad the spread is on CSRMs+Artemis... like... terribad.

I took an untested (dumb move on my part but i ran out of time!) 3xCSRM6+artemis & 3xCERMLs stormcrow into a competitive drop and my missile spread was abominable.

My 4xMLS & 3xSRM6+artemis WVR is a far more deadly mech just because of the increased tankiness & better accuracy weapons.

The more i play the clan mechs, the more glaring their failings become and the less fun they are to play. The nerfs and tweaks to clan weaponry have finally broken my fun.

[Mott]

Duran Vancor, on 25 September 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

What's with the "It's sooooo hot" nonsense?

MDD-A

86 damage alpha
8.3 sutained dps
39% heat efficiancy
6 tons of ammo

Everybody here knows this is beyond overpowered. It's actually damaging the game over time and will only get worse as more and more c-bill Clans will be available.

The only difference is, some players actually admit they want Clans to be better than Innerspheres. I disagree with them, but they are at least honest.

Claiming Clans are even remotely comparable to Innersphere mechs is just dishonest and damaging for this game. How many Innersphere mechs will we see in a couple of months? I fear not many. Mine will sit in their hangars, I know that much.

Your build is a complete joke.

The Clans' one big advantage over IS is the XL engines that require BOTH STs to be destroyed to drop a mech... you do NOT place ammo in the STs. And don't pile it in the legs either. Arms and CT are your ammo bins.

Also, CSRM spread is so bad it's nearly unplayable. Up that to CSRMs+Artemis to make it viable and you're dropping either tons of ammo, tons of heatsinks or reducing the 6s to 4s. Any way you slice it, you're not keeping those firepower OR dps stats.

So no, that build is not OP and it has not broken the game. All it does is offer up a juicy target that will 'splode real good in the first heavy exchange of fire.

Edited by Mott, 25 September 2014 - 04:37 AM.