178 replies to this topic

[Duran Vancor]

Mott, on 25 September 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Your build is a complete joke.

The Clans' one big advantage over IS is the XL engines that require BOTH STs to be destroyed to drop a mech... you do NOT place ammo in the STs. And don't pile it in the legs either. Arms and CT are your ammo bins.

Also, CSRM spread is so bad it's nearly unplayable. Up that to CSRMs+Artemis to make it viable and you're dropping either tons of ammo, tons of heatsinks or reducing the 6s to 4s. Any way you slice it, you're not keeping those firepower OR dps stats.

So no, that build is not OP and it has not broken the game. All it does is offer up a juicy target that will 'splode real good in the first heavy exchange of fire.

Really? Of all the things you could talk about you pick ammo location? Move it around then... Remove them from the legs and put them in the arms, put the side torso ones in the ct. The basic build is the same and it's definately not "unplayable".

Yes srm without artemis spread, just like they do for the Innersphere. So upgrade to artemis launchers and do the same on any Innerspehre mechs. The Clan still wins.

I don't really know what your argument is, other than you don't like the build, so it's bad?
Log into the game and you will see many people play the same or a variation of it. It seems to be working for them and is far from "unplayable"...

Around 40%-50% of the mechs I see in a match are currently Clan mechs. This is in a time where most are still behind a paywall and we have way more Innersphere mechs to choose from. How will it look, once they are all available for cbills? Is this the game we should want? If community warfare ever becomes a reality, will we have enough Innersphere and Clan pilots, or will we have too many on one side?

Those are legitimate concerns and sooner or later we will see if it'll be as bad as I think it will.

Edited by Duran Vancor, 25 September 2014 - 04:53 AM.

[Curccu]

Glythe, on 23 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Really?

So it's an A1 splatcat with 6 srm 6 but it also has lasers.

And you're trying to say this game isn't pay to win?



I haven't even patched but I know that is just asking for trouble. On the one hand you're trying to get people to play with less high alpha builds and on the other hand you come out with this monster.

107? LOL I can make 141.5 easily, totally OP build
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...804ab017f10bc2a

[Piney II]

Willard Phule, on 24 September 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Can it do that 107 damage without overheating, shutting down and dying like a Dragon in the next 5 seconds?

^^^^This - 107 alpha given the luck that EVERY missile hits the target.

This mech runs HOT. If you're already carrying mid scale heat when you launch this mighty alpha, you will shut down.............and more than likely be ripped open before you power up again.

I own the mech and I've tried this build out - once. It looks great on paper but it is actually hard to employ in battle. Even chain firing those SRMs builds the heat up rapidly.

OP, I guess your next nerf crusade should be the 9 ER PPC Dire Wolf.....................that alpha makes the Dog's look like a pop gun.

Edited by Piney, 25 September 2014 - 05:01 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mott, on 25 September 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Your build is a complete joke.

The Clans' one big advantage over IS is the XL engines that require BOTH STs to be destroyed to drop a mech... you do NOT place ammo in the STs. And don't pile it in the legs either. Arms and CT are your ammo bins.

Also, CSRM spread is so bad it's nearly unplayable. Up that to CSRMs+Artemis to make it viable and you're dropping either tons of ammo, tons of heatsinks or reducing the 6s to 4s. Any way you slice it, you're not keeping those firepower OR dps stats.

So no, that build is not OP and it has not broken the game. All it does is offer up a juicy target that will 'splode real good in the first heavy exchange of fire.

was running the MDD-A, stock last night for Clan v IS SMW. Only way to be semi effective was 150 meters or less, chain firing the SRM6s. And boy howdy did she run hot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Duran Vancor, on 25 September 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Really? Of all the things you could talk about you pick ammo location? Move it around then... Remove them from the legs and put them in the arms, put the side torso ones in the ct. The basic build is the same and it's definately not "unplayable".

Yes srm without artemis spread, just like they do for the Innersphere. So upgrade to artemis launchers and do the same on any Innerspehre mechs. The Clan still wins.

I don't really know what your argument is, other than you don't like the build, so it's bad?
Log into the game and you will see many people play the same or a variation of it. It seems to be working for them and is far from "unplayable"...

Around 40%-50% of the mechs I see in a match are currently Clan mechs. This is in a time where most are still behind a paywall and we have way more Innersphere mechs to choose from. How will it look, once they are all available for cbills? Is this the game we should want? If community warfare ever becomes a reality, will we have enough Innersphere and Clan pilots, or will we have too many on one side?

Those are legitimate concerns and sooner or later we will see if it'll be as bad as I think it will.

The argument is, that CLAN SRMs, especially the 6 spread far worse, in many cases, certainly the MDD, than IS; Artemis, or not. I can pack 4x SRM4-6 into the arms of my Orion and keep them all decently clustered to 200 meters. The MDD, with artemis, they are spread all over the mech at that range. Not as bad as SSRMs, but it's pretty ludicrous.

Oh, and your "mighty build?" Is missing that Aremis. So there goes 6 tons.
MDD-A
Wow, heat efficiency is kinda MEH..and the ammo levels, a joke.

OK..so finally enough ammo.....
MDD-A
and wow the heat sucks. As does the ability to actually land the damage in any focused, meaningful way.

[Duran Vancor]

CPLT-A1

This a Catapult with Artemis upgrade

MDD-A

This is a Mad Dog with Artemis upgrade

Advantages Catapult:
- 1 Jumpjet

Advantages Mad Dog:
- 2 ERML as backup (fights without ammo, can engage from 400+ range)
- 7 kph faster Speed
- 3 more heat sinks (Only firing SRM it runs cooler)
- clan xl engine

The Mad Dog also has vastly superior hitboxes, but I'll give you that. The Catapult has 4 points more armor on the torso section so whatever.

So a 60 ton mech, that we could compare to the Dragon but that would be ridiculous and pointless, is a straight up upgrade to the Catapult. You don't have a a jumpjet and... that's it with the downsides.

I'm curious to see how PGI wants to keep the Innersphere relevant to casual players like me. I'm here telling you, that I won't be using my old mechs anymore, if I can copy every single build on a superior Clan mech.

Why play a Dragon if I can play a Mad Dog?
Why play an Orion if I can play a Timber Wolf?
Why play a Hunchback if I can play a Nova?
etc.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

The argument is, that CLAN SRMs, especially the 6 spread far worse, in many cases, certainly the MDD, than IS; Artemis, or not. I can pack 4x SRM4-6 into the arms of my Orion and keep them all decently clustered to 200 meters. The MDD, with artemis, they are spread all over the mech at that range. Not as bad as SSRMs, but it's pretty ludicrous.

Oh, and your "mighty build?" Is missing that Aremis. So there goes 6 tons.
MDD-A
Wow, heat efficiency is kinda MEH..and the ammo levels, a joke.

OK..so finally enough ammo.....
MDD-A
and wow the heat sucks. As does the ability to actually land the damage in any focused, meaningful way.

Build a Catapult with 6 SRM 6 + Artemis that's actually as good, if not better than the 2 you just posted. You can't. The Mad Dog is a straight upgrade and only lacking the ability to use jumpjets.

Edited by Duran Vancor, 25 September 2014 - 05:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Duran Vancor, on 25 September 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

CPLT-A1

This a Catapult with Artemis upgrade

MDD-A

This is a Mad Dog with Artemis upgrade

Advantages Catapult:
- 1 Jumpjet

Advantages Mad Dog:
- 2 ERML as backup (fights without ammo, can engage from 400+ range)
- 7 kph faster Speed
- 3 more heat sinks (Only firing SRM it runs cooler)
- clan xl engine

The Mad Dog also has vastly superior hitboxes, but I'll give you that. The Catapult has 4 points more armor on the torso section so whatever.

So a 60 ton mech, that we could compare to the Dragon but that would be ridiculous and pointless, is a straight up upgrade to the Catapult. You don't have a a jumpjet and... that's it with the downsides.

I'm curious to see how PGI wants to keep the Innersphere relevant to casual players like me. I'm here telling you, that I won't be using my old mechs anymore, if I can copy every single build on a superior Clan mech.

Why play a Dragon if I can play a Mad Dog?
Why play an Orion if I can play a Timber Wolf?
Why play a Hunchback if I can play a Nova?
etc.



Build a Catapult with 6 SRM 6 + Artemis that's actually as good, if not better than the 2 you just posted. You can't. The Mad Dog is a straight upgrade and only lacking the ability to use jumpjets.

which is a big lack. Your er mediums are all but useless with the heat on that design, so scrap them. Oh, and the SRMs on the CPLT do more damage and group better.


Ears vs Side torsos are a bit of a trade off as both get popped with silly ease.

Also, the CPLT is MASSIVELY more agile.

But since neither design is good for anything outside of ambush attacks? The standard CPLT with JJs, better grouping, better agility has the edge. The moment either is focused, they are screwed.

[Verdic Mckenna]

The spirit of the Mad Dog in general. Get it's teeth around you at range and then move in for the kill. Easily dispatched if focused and has its teeth cut out. Otherwise its a gamble.

Narcissistic, on 23 September 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Regardless of armor relocation and pilot skill, it's simply easy to handicap these Mad Dogs. However, I do NOT like facing them, at all. If I can catch one off gaurd, peace of cake. If he is coming after me....... I may make it out but not without a lot of pain.

[Tombstoner]

Glythe, on 23 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Really?

So it's an A1 splatcat with 6 srm 6 but it also has lasers.

And you're trying to say this game isn't pay to win?



I haven't even patched but I know that is just asking for trouble. On the one hand you're trying to get people to play with less high alpha builds and on the other hand you come out with this monster.

Yup made this for TT

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

which is a big lack. Your er mediums are all but useless with the heat on that design, so scrap them. Oh, and the SRMs on the CPLT do more damage and group better.


Ears vs Side torsos are a bit of a trade off as both get popped with silly ease.

Also, the CPLT is MASSIVELY more agile.

But since neither design is good for anything outside of ambush attacks? The standard CPLT with JJs, better grouping, better agility has the edge. The moment either is focused, they are screwed.

One of the ultra rare moments i agree with this guy.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Mickey Knoxx, on 24 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Or you could just run the 9 erppc Direwolf. Lots of cram crap on builds out there, don't mean they will work good.

That's what I call: - SpartaMeta!

Edited by Hagoromo Gitsune, 25 September 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[Duran Vancor]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

which is a big lack. Your er mediums are all but useless with the heat on that design, so scrap them. Oh, and the SRMs on the CPLT do more damage and group better.


Ears vs Side torsos are a bit of a trade off as both get popped with silly ease.

Also, the CPLT is MASSIVELY more agile.

But since neither design is good for anything outside of ambush attacks? The standard CPLT with JJs, better grouping, better agility has the edge. The moment either is focused, they are screwed.

ER ML useless? What? You can actually engage when out of ammo and from further than 270 meters with a nicely accurate weapon to remove components you exposed with your SRMs. Why would you want to remove them? What?

Catapult ears are the easiest thing to remove in this game. They have less armor than the Mad Dogs shoulders and can not be protected, no matter how hard you try to twist.

How is the Catapult more agile? It can mount jumpjets, as I mentioned as it's only advantage. What else? It moves slower, even if you put in the biggest engine avaiable. We can put them as equally mobile, if that makes you feel better but in no way is there a major advantage for either mech.

I don't even know what to say about Innersphere SRM doing more damage... Is this the point where the trolling begins? This is such a miniscule thing, why even mention it? It has not real impact on the field.

0.9 more damage on a SRM6 for 50% more weight. What a deal!

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Duran Vancor, on 25 September 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

ER ML useless? What? You can actually engage when out of ammo and from further than 270 meters with a nicely accurate weapon to remove components you exposed with your SRMs. Why would you want to remove them? What?

Catapult ears are the easiest thing to remove in this game. They have less armor than the Mad Dogs shoulders and can not be protected, no matter how hard you try to twist.

How is the Catapult more agile? It can mount jumpjets, as I mentioned as it's only advantage. What else? It moves slower, even if you put in the biggest engine avaiable. We can put them as equally mobile, if that makes you feel better but in no way is there a major advantage for either mech.

I don't even know what to say about Innersphere SRM doing more damage... Is this the point where the trolling begins? This is such a miniscule thing, why even mention it? It has not real impact on the field.

0.9 more damage on a SRM6 for 50% more weight. What a deal!

A whole 2 ERML let's all get super wet at the damage potential here! once your out of SRM's your either already dead or your useless with 2 ERML.

A Mad Dog's shoulders can't be protected either, their hit box is huge, does not matter which way it turns a shoulder is coming off, that's the point neither have an advantage here.

It's not just 0.9 more damage, the IS versions have better grouping than the clan versions

Edited by DV McKenna, 25 September 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[Mott]

Not to mention that if you've lost the CSRM side torsos to damage... youve also already lost 1 or both of the CERMLs as your arm doesn't stick around if the shoulder it's attached too has been blown off.

Duran the one big thing you're missing here is that an "alpha" is only effective if all the damage hits just one or two torsos.

Spreading 86 damage across 1 arm, 1 ST, 1CT, 1H & 1L (which is the spread you'd get with 2 cermls & 6 csrms) is simply not effective in MWO.

You will have to launch 4-5 of those against a well armored IS heavy or Assault before you'll even start knocking out important components. By that time, their pinpoint, high alpha strikes will have crippled your MadDog, as you'll have shut down twice just getting off 4 alphas.

DV McKenna, on 25 September 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

It's not just 0.9 more damage, the IS versions have better grouping than the clan versions

Exactly, it's HIGHER damage CONCENTRATED in a smaller area. The largest influence on improving any pilot's TTK.

It's exactly why a dual gauss FB is a terrifying mech to face once you've lost a little torso armor.

[BOWMANGR]

I really like how people jump to conclusions by playing just 1-2 matches against any new mech chassis with inexperienced pilots who still haven't settled on a good loadout or even unlocked any mech skill.....

Let me remind you how many people were praising the Clan mech balancing on release....

You need to wait after ANY new mech release for good pilots to level them up, find their preferred loadouts and AFTER you meet a few of those on the battlefield THEN come here and tell us about a mech's power level.

Everything else is Oxcrap.

Edited by BOWMANGR, 25 September 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Duran Vancor, on 25 September 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

ER ML useless? What? You can actually engage when out of ammo and from further than 270 meters with a nicely accurate weapon to remove components you exposed with your SRMs. Why would you want to remove them? What?

Catapult ears are the easiest thing to remove in this game. They have less armor than the Mad Dogs shoulders and can not be protected, no matter how hard you try to twist.

How is the Catapult more agile? It can mount jumpjets, as I mentioned as it's only advantage. What else? It moves slower, even if you put in the biggest engine avaiable. We can put them as equally mobile, if that makes you feel better but in no way is there a major advantage for either mech.

I don't even know what to say about Innersphere SRM doing more damage... Is this the point where the trolling begins? This is such a miniscule thing, why even mention it? It has not real impact on the field.

0.9 more damage on a SRM6 for 50% more weight. What a deal!

I agree with you on a lot of this. Normally Bishop makes very good points, but I do think he is off the mark on this one. The ERMLasers of a Mad Dog make it more versatile than a Catapult A1.

The big thing is the missile location. Catapults "ears" are very easy to hit and destroy. It is to the point that I don't think I will even carry missile on my Cat C1 anymore. I might make it a LLaser machine...and that makes me very sad. Like Duran says, no amount of torso twisting saves a Cat's ears and once the A1's ears are gone, it's done. That is why I would like to see some BIG arm structure quirks for for the Catapult.

Overall, the Mad Dog should be the much better choice. I'm not calling for a nerf of the Mad Dog (it's far too early and early videos I have seen show a very hot SRM machine), but I am not going to say that the Cat A1 is the better choice.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 25 September 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Hornviech]

AAAH the new Wave 3 Clans are OP I don't know what kind of mechs they are but they are OVERPOWERED !!!!
Equip all clans with Waterpistols and 200% Ghostheat when use Waterpistols plus 100% Ghostheat when popping UAV.

AHHHH shut them down after Matchstart because the Engines are running to hot !!

[Mott]

Hornviech, on 25 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

AAAH the new Wave 3 Clans are OP I don't know what kind of mechs they are but they are OVERPOWERED !!!!
Equip all clans with Waterpistols and 200% Ghostheat when use Waterpistols plus 100% Ghostheat when popping UAV.

AHHHH shut them down after Matchstart because the Engines are running to hot !!

Sadly, this isn't really hyperbole.

[DivideByZer0]

My 0.02:
The maddog was always a really dangerous support mech if it's in the right position. It's been said before, but it doesn't have a whole lot of armor for a 75 tonner, and the cooling is ... lackluster. That was always the balance.
In game, the vulture fills a similar role to the catapault. Early in this game we had people running SRM catapaults .. "splatcat". PGI nerfed it.
This is the order of events I predict, using previous mech build releases as a precedent:
a- people buy maddog
b- people use maddog
c- PGI nerfs maddog
d- PGI announces "wave 3" sale
e- lather, rinse, repeat.

Edited by DivideByZer0, 25 September 2014 - 10:13 AM.