231 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

The strangest part of hitreg so far is this.

You can shoot at a stationary enemy, be doing full damage, see that damage delivered, all the client side effects (heatglow, reticule /RED confirmation, impact effects both visual and sound) will trigger, you see your enemy's appropriate armor take damage and get cored quickly and reliably.

But as soon as a target is mobile moving in any direction except straight towards you, that damage always seems less.
You can be perfectly on target, and get the same Client effects, but delivered damage is questionable.

The second odd occurrences, are when you start leading a target based on its direction of movement, lead way ahead of him where your crosshairs are not even on target, and can again be getting some of those client side indicators, Reticule confirmation, and you see the paperdoll start taking damage.

Its as though your weapons aren't being exclusively delivered to the enemy's avatar, but both his avatar and the invisible hitbox which is leading around the avatar.

Maybe there is a missing definition in the netcode that defines how damage is registered, which is why you can damage both, or that the netcode is trying to divide the damage dealt when the hitbox and avatar don't line up over eachother.

Thats just a theory though.

(check Page 5 of this thread, post #81 is the best I have to explain the phenomenon)

Edited by Mister D, 03 October 2014 - 04:18 PM.

[Mockingbird42]

Russ Bullock, on 03 October 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

...

But sticking to the point at hand - can you see what I am referring to when you watch Jager's lasers hit the Mad Dog - it is not 60 dmg to the CT - perhaps less than half.

Considering these hitboxes you are right. It is about 40 % of the damage. Didnt think ct is that small. Thx for taking the time to look into it.

Edited by Tommy 42, 03 October 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[Too Much Love]

Russ Bullock, on 03 October 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Okay please see these screen shots.





I know people will want me to nerf the Mad Dog hit boxes - I think we wanted to be so sure that the nose didn't end up like the Dragon's that it got really protected. As you can see the best place to hit the CT will be lower down on the CT.

But I want you to watch this Jager stream again. It seems to be that perhaps only ~40% of the damage going to the CT, perhaps less. Please watch again and let me know what you think.

At any rate it goes from Damning evidence to perhaps making complete sense, if you have a video that is more cut and dry that would be better.

What? Nerf MDD hit boxes?!? Who said that? In fact, this thing is too fragile, side torsos explode very fast, 60 t mech doesn't have enough armour for close range combat... Maybe you tried to say buff?

[ArchSight]

Russ Bullock, on 03 October 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Okay please see these screen shots.





I know people will want me to nerf the Mad Dog hit boxes - I think we wanted to be so sure that the nose didn't end up like the Dragon's that it got really protected. As you can see the best place to hit the CT will be lower down on the CT.

But I want you to watch this Jager stream again. It seems to be that perhaps only ~40% of the damage going to the CT, perhaps less. Please watch again and let me know what you think.

At any rate it goes from Damning evidence to perhaps making complete sense, if you have a video that is more cut and dry that would be better.

WoW that CT hit box on the vulture is really small to the point where it's unbelievable. That line is the whole center of the mech. Should make that bigger to represent the mechs design clearly. Mechs with bigger CT's are easier to kill but the vulture is a support mech not for brawling. Why does it need "hard to hit" hit boxes when it has enough missile hard points to send indirect damage and firepower from the arms to destroy mechs before they get enough time to shoot back at it? The dragon may have a big Center torso but it manages to protect it with it's evenly distributed weapon hard points that can be used around cover without fully exposing the mech.

[Too Much Love]

P.S. I have no probkems with killing Mad Dogs, they are easy targets most of the time, no problems with the hit reg.

If you increase CT hit box nobody will use Vulture anymore, especially when people have better options like Mad Cat.

[SoggyGorilla]

if you watch the video close enough, you can see him spread the lasers across the side torso, and the center. it wasn't a clean burn to only the center. not only that, but you see that both side torsos are cored after that push, so when jager says "60 points of laser and he just shrug'd it off" that's hardly true. if your shooting for the CT on the mad dog, your wrong.

[Vassago Rain]

Russ Bullock, on 03 October 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Okay please see these screen shots.





I know people will want me to nerf the Mad Dog hit boxes - I think we wanted to be so sure that the nose didn't end up like the Dragon's that it got really protected. As you can see the best place to hit the CT will be lower down on the CT.

But I want you to watch this Jager stream again. It seems to be that perhaps only ~40% of the damage going to the CT, perhaps less. Please watch again and let me know what you think.

At any rate it goes from Damning evidence to perhaps making complete sense, if you have a video that is more cut and dry that would be better.

We need hit boxes for the rest of the mechs, if possible.

There's been a lot of fan attempts, but they're all heavily outdated.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Can a mod please pull all of this maddog hitbox stuff out of the thread please?

It needs to be in a maddog or hitbox specific discussion of its own, which would be a better place for it.

[Tahribator]

ArchSight, on 03 October 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

WoW that CT hit box on the vulture is really small to the point where it's unbelievable. That line is the whole center of the mech. Should make that bigger to represent the mechs design clearly. Mechs with bigger CT's are easier to kill but the vulture is a support mech not for brawling. Why does it need "hard to hit" hit boxes when it has enough missile hard points to send indirect damage and firepower from the arms to destroy mechs before they get enough time to shoot back at it? The dragon may have a big Center torso but it manages to protect it with it's evenly distributed weapon hard points that can be used around cover without fully exposing the mech.

The hitbox definition fits its role as a support 'Mech. Narrow CT means it can facetank really well while facing the enemy, which it has to while using LRMs and lasers. Your ST's are only fragile while you twist and therefore this is a mech which you have to twist very consciously, much like the Orion.

Edited by Tahribator, 04 October 2014 - 02:45 AM.

[Valore]

I've finally gotten a video done which shows the exact issues we've been having for the past few months.



Skip ahead to 1:10. First I shoot the Cicada, not a very good shot, but you can see even though I graze over him repeatedly, there's zero hitreg, no crosshair red flash at all.

But the most obvious is the fight directly after that with the Commando. Lasers held on perfectly, and nothing. Crosshair doesn't even flash red.

This is the kind of frustration that causes people to quit the game. Please do put this on as high a priority as you can after CW Russ. Thanks.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Bingo Valore, you nailed it.

This is what I experience time and time again vs lights.

Its present on every mech, you always have to lead your laser shots to score any damage when they're moving sideways like that.

Big mechs have this same deal, its just not as amplified because they're not moving fast.

The Gauss shots on his rear not even registering blows my mind though, should have been a killshot.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Here's another compilation from me...

[nonnex]

Can confirm that the faster the target is the more inaccurate the hitreg works. The more experienced players learnt to compensate that issue a bit by predicting the - what I call - "hitreg delay".

This aspect is not uninteresting by the way, because I would love to see more "hard to learn" things where experience and hand eye coordination aka skill have impact, but in this case I think it was not intended to work like that.

Edited by nonnex, 04 October 2014 - 04:35 AM.

[Aznox]

sorry i didnt read all the topic, but why not put the clan mechs in the training grounds, so people can experiment and learn instead of calling for bugs that dont exist because they have no way to be proved / busted ?

Btw Russ i appreciate your interactions with the community , even for someone like me who spends little time in the forum, the change is easy to perceive

[nonnex]

Good point. A tweaked training grounds. would be neat for newcomers to MWO and for veterans. for the beginning some report after the training would be awsome like:

xx% hit (component)
xx damage total
xx dps

and so on

Edited by nonnex, 04 October 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

nonnex, on 04 October 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

Can confirm that the faster the target is the more inaccurate the hitreg works. The more experienced players learnt to compensate that issue a bit by predicting the - what I call - "hitreg delay".

This aspect is not uninteresting by the way, because I would love to see more "hard to learn" things where experience and hand eye coordination aka skill have impact, but in this case I think it was not intended to work like that.

I would much prefer that when I have my crosshair on target, the enemy gets damaged where I'm aiming at.
At least with Lasers.

[Scratx]

Valore, on 04 October 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

I've finally gotten a video done which shows the exact issues we've been having for the past few months.

(snip)

Skip ahead to 1:10. First I shoot the Cicada, not a very good shot, but you can see even though I graze over him repeatedly, there's zero hitreg, no crosshair red flash at all.

But the most obvious is the fight directly after that with the Commando. Lasers held on perfectly, and nothing. Crosshair doesn't even flash red.

This is the kind of frustration that causes people to quit the game. Please do put this on as high a priority as you can after CW Russ. Thanks.

Yeah, I've seen that before. Very frustrating when it happens. And, you pretty much nailed it with the Commando in particular. Crosshair never flashed once even though you were hitting him dead on for long bursts.

[Andi Nagasia]

hopefully this will get fixed, i keep having problems like that,
i've noticed when ever my ping goes over 200 and i aim at a target going 80+ its only half registering,
i know with most weapons you are supposed to lead your target, but let me remind you these are lasers,
as in they are supposed to be instantaneous, as in 0 travel time between weapon and target, click and hit,
so they are clearly not working as intended, and its a big problem, 1/3 of all the weapons in the game,

[Rickrom]

LOL!!! Yes. This this and this. Especially that video with the commando and cicada. Laser reg is the worst, but it happens with ballistics and missiles too. It's lovely how easy some players have it, while a lot of us can't deal damage properly. Mine doesn't even work while leading nor on static targets. And this got worse as patches were applied during time.

The best were the early days of laser HSR (2013). My laser reg was the same as a NA player or good internet euro. Leggin' lights with Llas and Lplas was a blast. But after each HSR pass, it went to utter s h i t.

EDIT: My ping, depending if it's during NA prime time, averages at 235-255 ms. Can experience a little better reg after prime time, also lower ping.

Edited by Rickrom, 04 October 2014 - 08:22 PM.

[slide]

Valore,

Thanks for the video I think that shows exactly what has been happening for a while now.

When you were shooting the Commando, particularly when it was close, it looked to me like the lasers weren't even reaching the target, much the same as when you shoot invisible walls on terrain. Is it me or can anyone else see this?