231 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mcgral18, on 11 October 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Turret damage does not count, I'm afraid.

Doesn',t matter, I was hammering against live mechs and my lasers dealt less than 2/3 of their damage to non-moving mechs.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I sent Russ a PM.

"Hey Russ, the guys have collected quite a few videos together to provide some good solid evidence of Lasers being completely ignored by the HSR system you guys have setup.

Have you had a chance to watch the latest videos that have been posted in the thread?

http://mwomercs.com/...le/page__st__20"

Russ replied
"Sent Today, 11:01 AM
Not since the one you talked about with the Commando not getting hit.

I am afraid that Neema our Hit registration and HSR expert is tied up on CW development. Hopefully I can get him back on to Hit Detection in November sometime when CW phase 2 is primarily in test.

Sorry for the delay. "

Looks like we'll be waiting till after CW.
Just keep collecting evidence in the meanwhile.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Yeah, laser hit reg seems odd, My warhawk has like a 40pt alpha with it's 2 guns, I met a orange CT Internal atlas and whaled on him with like 4-5 volleys of lasers and a few shots from the SRM6.....he finally died....I wont say I landed all my lasers in his CT, but I feel I landed sufficient amount that he really shoulda been dead...cuz really...how much health is orange internal CT on an Atlas?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I can wait for improvements.



And I also hope to see HTAL be a part of that process, even in a in-progress Test Server environment!

[ShinVector]

Mister D, on 11 October 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

I sent Russ a PM.

"Hey Russ, the guys have collected quite a few videos together to provide some good solid evidence of Lasers being completely ignored by the HSR system you guys have setup.

Have you had a chance to watch the latest videos that have been posted in the thread?

http://mwomercs.com/...le/page__st__20"

Russ replied
"Sent Today, 11:01 AM
Not since the one you talked about with the Commando not getting hit.

I am afraid that Neema our Hit registration and HSR expert is tied up on CW development. Hopefully I can get him back on to Hit Detection in November sometime when CW phase 2 is primarily in test.

Sorry for the delay. "

Looks like we'll be waiting till after CW.
Just keep collecting evidence in the meanwhile.

Thanks... For the effort dude... But sad face..
Looks like won't be playing this game much till then...

[Elizander]

I've been excluding lasers on most of my builds or at least not making them my primary weapons now since they aren't working so well for me at 300+ ping. Some days they work great when I'm at 250ish or less maybe, but my damage loss is just too high even if pulse.

[Andi Nagasia]

hopefully this gets fixed before or with CW,
or the LRM/Gauss/AC spam will blot out the sun,

[LordKnightFandragon]

Using C ERPPC, I defs notice that every so often a shot will hit the target but wont flash as though it has hit and dealt damage.

I just had a game, lasted the entire game of like 10 minutes or so, and only ended with 444 dmg....this with 4 C ERPPC at close range, its not like I missed much, Victors, Dire Whales, Novas as my targets, all those are pretty big. So my own accuracy wasnt really an issue.

Guess its hard to deal alot of damage in this game.....maybe I should be content with dealing over 400dmg.....atleast I got a kill a win and a survive out of that battle lol...

[psihius]

I have to say that my HBK-4P feels like it does poor job of hitting targets - even those that I manage to actually track. I have to say that people in this thread, that noticed a correlation to the movement on an uneven terrain are onto something, because I see that too a lot. Even big mech's (like an atlas), when hitting a bump, seems to shake of part of the damage as not being registered at all.
There are freak occurrences, when I hit a target with all 9 lasers in an alpha and barely scratch the damn enemy. It feels that some mech's just have bogus hitboxes, others have issues when moving. Sometimes I get a feeling that hitreg just looses damage when shifting between locations on the mech when you try to track a fast target and you shift your damage between 2-3 locations back and forth a few times during the beam duration. I get that if I hit RT, CT and LT on a spider with my 45 laser damage 0 - I spread it, but that's 45 damage over 3 locations - -15 armor on each and this should be very noticeable, but hey - he just shakes it of like never happened. Happens with moving targets a lot - even with assaults, but to a lesser degree.

[Elizander]

I've removed all lasers from all my mechs. They all do 60%-80% less damage for me. The only energy weapons I bring now are PPCs and ER PPCs. Even if they are heavier, they still do more damage than an equivalent tonnage of lasers.

[Jun Watarase]

I can confirm that clan ER PPCs at least are badly bugged. I have videos of stationery targets getting hit but the reticle doesnt flash red and they dont take any damage. I also have a video where close range CERPPC shots simply vanish after leaving the barel and do no damage to a mech at sub 50m.

Lasers are basically terrible unless its a stationery target. I had to fire 60+ damage worth of lasers at a open torso dragon (as in, all torsos were open) the other day to kill it. We were both shooting each other at less than 100m and i was taking nearly no damage from his lasers as well. It reminded me of closed beta fire fights where everyone had SHS in stock mechs and could only fire once per 10 seconds without overheating. You just had mechs circling each other for ages.

Sadly the 0.5 second firing delay i have at 200+ ms ping makes burst fire ACs very very bad at hitting moving targets. Its especially annoying when you squeeze the trigger on a stationery mech and in the time it takes for the server to fire the rounds, the mech has moved from his spot and your rounds go flying through thin air.

Once again confused why PGI would assign the netcode guy to new content like CW....i remember in beta PGI said that they just hired a netcode guy who would work on it full time. Then he gets pulled to work on stuff like clan mechs. Sigh...

[ShinVector]

Jun Watarase, on 17 October 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

Once again confused why PGI would assign the netcode guy to new content like CW....i remember in beta PGI said that they just hired a netcode guy who would work on it full time. Then he gets pulled to work on stuff like clan mechs. Sigh...

You almost sound surprised.....

As someone who loves fast mechs, lasers and being semi-competitive..
This issue was a deadly blow for me... Meanwhile.. On hiatus till they fix this issue.

Edited by ShinVector, 17 October 2014 - 03:02 AM.

[Mcgral18]

I just had a terrible experience with the WubShee...

A stationary Cent I managed to sneak up on, lined up a full rear CT burn; 52 damage into (keep in mind, 64 MAX armour, front and back) and....his armour turned a shade of red, not even breached.

This is stationary to stationary laser fire....it made me so sad.

[WarZ]

Mcgral18, on 17 October 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

I just had a terrible experience with the WubShee...

A stationary Cent I managed to sneak up on, lined up a full rear CT burn; 52 damage into (keep in mind, 64 MAX armour, front and back) and....his armour turned a shade of red, not even breached.

This is stationary to stationary laser fire....it made me so sad.

Don't fib It pissed you off immeasurably !

Trying some IS mechs and lasers are not what I remember...

[LordKnightFandragon]

WarZ, on 17 October 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

Don't fib It pissed you off immeasurably !

Trying some IS mechs and lasers are not what I remember...

I would be, especially if what should have been atleast one kill led to no kill and me dying lol....and besides, nothing really is more annoying in a game then doing everything right, doing it all the right way and being met with bullshit like somehow 20 pts of rear armor is stopping over 50pts of damage.........the math just shouldnt be adding up that way......

[Pr8Dator]

Andi Nagasia, on 24 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

had a game yesterday,

score was 10-11, last enemy was a Jenner-SRM,
i was Running a Nova-s Prime arms 5ER-ML each,
ally was a Dire with 8ER-LL/LRM(?), i was 50-60m away,

Jenner appeared we blasted him, in the end we both died,
he only had yellow LT/RT Armor, and red CT Armor,

im really thinking this is becoming a major problem,
why run H/A mechs if Lights can easily toast you?

Tried a light (kitfox) yesterday and got toasted consistently... no kills... is it me or does the light invulnerability only applies to certain people??

[Pr8Dator]

psihius, on 16 October 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

I have to say that my HBK-4P feels like it does poor job of hitting targets - even those that I manage to actually track. I have to say that people in this thread, that noticed a correlation to the movement on an uneven terrain are onto something, because I see that too a lot. Even big mech's (like an atlas), when hitting a bump, seems to shake of part of the damage as not being registered at all.
There are freak occurrences, when I hit a target with all 9 lasers in an alpha and barely scratch the damn enemy. It feels that some mech's just have bogus hitboxes, others have issues when moving. Sometimes I get a feeling that hitreg just looses damage when shifting between locations on the mech when you try to track a fast target and you shift your damage between 2-3 locations back and forth a few times during the beam duration. I get that if I hit RT, CT and LT on a spider with my 45 laser damage 0 - I spread it, but that's 45 damage over 3 locations - -15 armor on each and this should be very noticeable, but hey - he just shakes it of like never happened. Happens with moving targets a lot - even with assaults, but to a lesser degree.

Exactly so. I noticed this especially when distance increases (but still within effective distance... something like 200 to 300m for ER large lasers)... like there is laser power dissipitation or something. I found that at about 50m in-your-face type of shooting, damage seems fine. Now, thats all I do... in your face brawling.

Did not notice this in the training zone though. As such, it should be netcode related.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 18 October 2014 - 12:36 AM.

[Glythe]

One thing I think will help is if we have some metrics to give them along with the videos. See someone acting funny? Write down their ping for the video. Note your ping as well. If we can find documented evidence and say when you have conditions A, B, and C, then this event will occur. From now on at please try to post your average ping when the videos were taken.

Valore, on 06 October 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Just some speculation here, but I think the issue gets worse if the two players in question have a high ping difference as well.

Its quite noticable because we conduct a lot of inhouse training, where most of our players are 250+ ping. In these situations, we hardly have to lead shots, or lead very little to do proper damage.

Against players where pings are largely different, whether higher or lower, is where the problems start to arise.

This is the why.

Since this game's beginning I've noticed that the advantage goes to the low ping guy IF he is a light mech moving very fast. This takes me back to when they introduced lag compensation to RtCW. People were intentionally lag switching when they sniped. You were frozen in place for them so they got impossible headshots even though you were sprinting.

A lot of light pilots figured out a long time ago that lasers are nearly useless if you two have a high ping differential. If you're big and slow with a low ping you will get murdered trying to register hits on a light moving near max speed with high ping.


Watching the video you posted with the Cicada takes me back to when knockbacks were in the game. You don't alpha when he first falls. You alpha about a second later. Or you alpha after he stands up for the second time (because the first time is when the server thinking about standing the mech up but not really doing it). I feel certain we're back to that stone age time with laser hit reg because he shut down and you fired. Sure you get a nice little red hit marker but I don't think it really counted.

What you really got was a message saying nice shot. Except you hit his hologram/ghost; really he's 3 feet over and you missed.

Edited by Glythe, 18 October 2014 - 01:46 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Here we go. This issue has been plaguing me for quite a while now. Driving me nuts! Decided to capture a clear pair of examples:



Taken with a ping between 75 and 95 ms.

On the first, the enemy mech is moving in a straight line away from me, the shots are placed squarely into his right leg. Model glow confirms the hit. HSR should read that even if he moved, he moved directly away and the hits should still register. 50 points of damage. Zero registration.

On the second, directly after, the enemy Timber Wolf starts off with yellow/orange armor. I then discharge the 50 point alpha strike into his right torso. A very tiny portion of it misses, and a similarly tiny portion spreads as he turns his mech. However, at least 35 damage should have registered on the already damaged side torso, which, given the prior armor condition of the component, should have, at the least, breached armor. Instead, the armor is still intact.

There is most certainly a hit detection error with lasers. Further, due to the heat generated, any failure to cause the damage earned puts the firing mech in a terrible position as the heat levels are substantially elevated after firing. Your ability to correct for the hit detection error is therefore limited due to your heat, whereas had it been working as intended you would instead be struggling with the heat but would at least have dealt the damage the heat penalty pays for.

Which is extremely frustrating, mind you. Given the tradeoff for energy weapons is heat, if your hit fails to register, the enemy is not impacted in any way but you certainly are. It puts the aggressor in a severe disadvantage. Efforts given wind up not equal to the results delivered by no fault of the player.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 October 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Totally support this thread. Lights' invulnerability just got out of hand. I had numerous of episodes with so-called "invulnerable lights" and other mechs, who just refused to die, when they had to (alphaing into cored red CT). Also lasers should be overall buffed, cuz it's not normal, when I can do up 1k+ non-stop damage with just something like AC/10+2xAC/5, but stupid lasers overheat my mechs after 2-3 alphas even with 17-20DHS, which also costs me extra weight due to bigger engine. And also. Looks like hit reg was broken again recently. There was a time about a month ago, when ballistic/PPC hit reg really felt much better. But now it's terrible again - it really feels like your projectiles just passing through your target or just explode without any damage registered. Sometimes I really start thinking, that PGI breaking hitreg intentionally in order to promote playing light mechs.

Edited by MrMadguy, 18 October 2014 - 06:51 AM.