128 replies to this topic

[TheHeater]

I am a clanner for three reasons:
1) More advanced mechs and technology
2) A more militaristic and competitive society
3) Selective breeding

[JeremyCrow]

Crusader yes. I was introduced to the battletech universe with MW2 and immediatly fell in love with the stories and videos in the game. Then I bought all the books and I loved whatever Robert Thurston wrote so...
I will probably start either as a merc or in the Draconis Combine (bushido is the closest there is to the Clan battle code) and will jump faction as soon as the clans are introduced.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I am. My reason is I like the fact that the Clans believe in the idea that (as far as warriors go) the best person for the job gets the job then has to fight to keep it. There is no complacency.

Alexander Caine, on 23 June 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

It was a nice idea, but they really didn't pull it off.
To elaborate: While many Clansmen did believe this, the invasions was primarily politically motivated. They certainly did NOT have a shining moral character. The Smoke Jaguars were of course the worst, but all of the Clans had shady politicians, atrocities, and a lot of blood on their hands.

What's worse, the invasion was doomed from the start. They simply vastly underestimated the IS ability to fight back, and were lulled into a false sense of superiority with their initial invasion victories. They didn't stop to consider that they hit the weakest borders, caught them off guard, and had a massive element of surprise.

once the serious fighting began, the invasion actually crumbled fast, and the extermination of the Jaguars pretty much hit home that they stodd zero chance of success.

Completely inaccurate. The IS got a grace period of a year (minus two days) due to the death of the ilKhan. Anybody with sense could see that & in case you do not have any, a sourcebook SAYS so. I am at work, when I get home, I will quote it verbatim but to paraphrase "If the IS were not given the year to rest, rearm & resupply as well as form alliances for coordinated attacks there would have been no need for a Tukayyid."

Argue with the source material. Try.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 24 June 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Hagetaka]

The Clans are nothing more than the result of bad game design, a lack of playtesting and years of bad writing after the fact.

You'd think FASA would maybe wanna talk to one sociologist or economist when trying to build this giant part of their gameworld. Nope- let's let Stackpole wing it with a new Mary Sue!

[Rush Maguin]

Listen, Trashborns. I've been fighting Clanners now for 20 years. I pushed you back at the Battle of Luthien, I fought you in raids and holding actions throughout the 90s...oops, the 3050s.... And I helped wipe out the Smoke Jaguar Clan. I've met you time and again and proven the cunning and genius of the INner Sphere. I have but this to say to your words of conquest:



...meanwhile, I don't think it was bad game design or bad writing. BAttletech has never hidden its space opera roots and I'm re-reading the Blood of Kerensky trilogy right now via kindle; Stackpole is a lopsided writer but it really brings me back to those early days of the CLan INvasion in 1990. Clan Players have, in the past, been power gamers who just wanted a quick kill (not all of them, but many); I've proven time and again that strategy and tactics (and of course, luck) will break their backs a good chunk of the time. I never saw the CLans as a game brekaing event. I saw them as worthy enemies to sharpen my tactical acumen on. If they come to MWO, I'll be SPhereside and I'll be cleaning house. Just like the old days.

Bring it, ******** of Kerensky!

[Jaroth Corbett]

I will look for you on the battlefield when the game is launched, stravag!

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

The endless discussion part 100.0........

However. I'm a clansman, cause they are much more interesting to me. I like their culture, their rules, their points of view. The technological aspect is secondary. I don't give a f... on it. I can't identify with these honorless, barbaric spheroid freeborns and their boring and endless wars against each other. Here we go...

[MacabreDerek]

Truthfully, I would love to claim to be a 'Clanner', but the reality is it feels like a bad fit. Mostly because in truth no matter how much I love the slight RP element Clanners use in their posts, sometimes it goes a little far, and truthfully I haven't read about any clanner I actually like that is a true ideal of Clan life, most of them were Freebirths to become the underdogs and were able to then be empathized with, but when it comes to Trueborns, it's arrogance to the point of annoyance.

Would like to call myself a Clanner, but the reality is I dont have a place in the player-base.

[Shaft McCavity]

MacabreDerek, on 25 June 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Would like to call myself a Clanner, but the reality is I dont have a place in the player-base.

So far, I don't think anyone here is as bad as this small cadre here near my home. They're all "Ghost Bears". They have the Ghost Bear logo tattooed on their bodies. They have full galaxies, or whatever the big units are, all painted up in Ghost Bear colors with decals (okay, I'm jealous because they did great painting jobs). They use "aff", "neg", and "stravag" in their everyday speech. And if they see you playing TT, especially IS fights, they'll butt in and talk about how superior the Clans are. I don't like the Clans, but I think my irrational hatred of all things "Ghost Bear" probably stems from these guys.

[JackCrow]

Shaft McCavity, on 25 June 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

So far, I don't think anyone here is as bad as this small cadre here near my home. They're all "Ghost Bears". They have the Ghost Bear logo tattooed on their bodies. They have full galaxies, or whatever the big units are, all painted up in Ghost Bear colors with decals (okay, I'm jealous because they did great painting jobs). They use "aff", "neg", and "stravag" in their everyday speech. And if they see you playing TT, especially IS fights, they'll butt in and talk about how superior the Clans are. I don't like the Clans, but I think my irrational hatred of all things "Ghost Bear" probably stems from these guys.

Amazing. Those guys sound pretty far gone.

[Rush Maguin]

Shaft McCavity, on 25 June 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

So far, I don't think anyone here is as bad as this small cadre here near my home. They're all "Ghost Bears". They have the Ghost Bear logo tattooed on their bodies. They have full galaxies, or whatever the big units are, all painted up in Ghost Bear colors with decals (okay, I'm jealous because they did great painting jobs). They use "aff", "neg", and "stravag" in their everyday speech. And if they see you playing TT, especially IS fights, they'll butt in and talk about how superior the Clans are. I don't like the Clans, but I think my irrational hatred of all things "Ghost Bear" probably stems from these guys.

I'm all for immersion in the game but that's just unreal. TO think, they have achieved such dedication to the art of Battletech that they will sacrifice the touch of a woman and the comforts of human contact to become their own clique of faux wariors.

I suppose you should form some Hell's Horses and teach them a lesson... ;P

[JackCrow]

This description couldn't more inaccurate. The invasion actually lasted several years and if not for the death of Leo Showers it probably would have kept rolling.

Take one look at the massive Pizza Slice that is the Clan OZ and tell me that they weren't successful in divesting the IS of humongous amount of territory.

Smoke Jags? The did not get annihilated for years after the invasion ended. And they were by far the weakest of the invading Clans after Tukkayid.

Alexander Caine, on 23 June 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

It was a nice idea, but they really didn't pull it off.
To elaborate: While many Clansmen did believe this, the invasions was primarily politically motivated. They certainly did NOT have a shining moral character. The Smoke Jaguars were of course the worst, but all of the Clans had shady politicians, atrocities, and a lot of blood on their hands.

What's worse, the invasion was doomed from the start. They simply vastly underestimated the IS ability to fight back, and were lulled into a false sense of superiority with their initial invasion victories. They didn't stop to consider that they hit the weakest borders, caught them off guard, and had a massive element of surprise.

once the serious fighting began, the invasion actually crumbled fast, and the extermination of the Jaguars pretty much hit home that they stodd zero chance of success.

[Shaft McCavity]

Rush Maguin, on 26 June 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I'm all for immersion in the game but that's just unreal. TO think, they have achieved such dedication to the art of Battletech that they will sacrifice the touch of a woman and the comforts of human contact to become their own clique of faux wariors.

I suppose you should form some Hell's Horses and teach them a lesson... ;P

Well, I suppose it's not as bad as some people...


These guys are the ones who pushed me away from the fun Periphery powers and into the hands of ComStar's 1st Army "The Bear Maulers". And the one unit of the 103rd, "The Bearskinners".

[FireNova]

Satsujinki, on 24 June 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Id like to play as a Smoke Jaguar and save em from annihilation. Why? Cause they have an awesome Totem animal

Sigh. If only there were more people like you out there. Unfortunately the legions of SJ haters, ComStar (liberal media spin) lovers, and clan haters in general will most likely be the majority voice on these forums.

Still, shouldn't mean that the Jaguar fanbase/playerbase should be rejected from the BT/MW community as a whole (Bulldog/Serpent....only to realize there were Jaguars that actually survived and escaped destruction in the lore). I just find it sad that the whole hatred of SJ simply on the lore subject usually translates to personal dramas/agenda attacks against the playerbase of the SJ faction. (Being a part of ~SJ~ for several years ive seen it many times in MW4 and in MWLL.)

Despite all that, I think that considering that the group I am a part of, ~SJ~, has the top MWLL server, Huntress, and is one of the most active in the mod still with lots of friendly and helpful people in it that a good number of people in the BT/MW community are not fooled by the whole "SJ R TEH BAHDGUHYS" liberal media spin (looking at you Warden Clan/Comstar lovers) that is so prevalent on the forums.

Regardless, nice to know there are folks like yourself out there that can think for themselves and not be spoonfed propaganda. See you on the battlefield!

/salute

[Chuggernaut]

JackCrow, on 26 June 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

Smoke Jags? The did not get annihilated for years after the invasion ended. And they were by far the weakest of the invading Clans after Tukkayid.

The Bears were by far the weakest Clan after Tukayyid. They got to their position of power in the 3060s by not fighting major wars and building up their infrastructure, and that takes time. Then Wolf and JF wrecked each other. CSJ was selected to be wiped out because they were the STRONGEST Clan in 3057.

If calling a fascist organization that openly practices discrimination against an ethnic group for the nature of their birth, eugenics, and violently oppresses its populace evil is "liberal media spin" then I'll gladly take the label. Are you trying to claim the Jaguars are somehow misunderstood or getting a bad wrap? Because if anything, the material that's come out since then, like Operation: Klondike, Golden Century, ER: 3052 and ER: 3062 have clarified that the Jags were indeed Amaris-level evil. TPTB never wrote the Jags as anything less than a band of blood-thirsty maniacs who made the other Clans actually look semi-decent by comparison.

If you want to play the bad guys, that's great. Lotta people do that. But embrace it, don't try to make ridiculous straw man claims that your imaginary robot faction is actually misunderstood good guys.

[FireNova]

Londerholm and Turtle Bay vs.....Kentares Massacre (Draconis Combine) and entire planets that have suffered across the Inner Sphere at the hands of the Word of Blake.

Yeah I agree, we can give THEM a pass....but not those "Jag-publicans". No siree.

My double standard detection senses are tingling.....

Also...."Catalyst lore"....lol.....

[Foxbyte]

Where is it said that the Word of Blake was ever given a pass? Last I heard they were also stereotypical bad guys. But at any rate, saying 'well these guys did bad things to' doesn't mean the SJs are any less evil.

[Chuggernaut]

FireNova, on 26 June 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Londerholm and Turtle Bay vs.....Kentares Massacre (Draconis Combine) and entire planets that have suffered across the Inner Sphere at the hands of the Word of Blake.

Yeah I agree, we can give THEM a pass....but not those "Jag-publicans". No siree.

My double standard detection senses are tingling.....

Also...."Catalyst lore"....lol.....

Are you implying that the policy of the Republican party is to practice eugenics, establish a fascist government and get rid of all civil rights? Because you're the only one who's decided that the contemporary divide between left and right in America has anything to do with the Smoke Jaguar being total whackjobs and that there is some liberal media conspiracy to paint an oppressive, fascist, racially-discriminatory government as bad.

Also if you would prefer we discuss FASA lore (they're written by most of the same people as the stuff at Catalyst) there's still nothing that paints the Jaguars as anything but monsters. They're one-dimensional bad guys even by BT writing standards. If you want to play the bad guy, that's cool. Tons of people, for example, take the dark side choices in KotOR. But that doesn't mean that the dark side choice is misunderstood because of some conspiracy.

Edited by Chuggernaut, 26 June 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

FireNova, on 26 June 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Sigh. If only there were more people like you out there. Unfortunately the legions of SJ haters, ComStar (liberal media spin) lovers, and clan haters in general will most likely be the majority voice on these forums.

Still, shouldn't mean that the Jaguar fanbase/playerbase should be rejected from the BT/MW community as a whole (Bulldog/Serpent....only to realize there were Jaguars that actually survived and escaped destruction in the lore). I just find it sad that the whole hatred of SJ simply on the lore subject usually translates to personal dramas/agenda attacks against the playerbase of the SJ faction. (Being a part of ~SJ~ for several years ive seen it many times in MW4 and in MWLL.)

Despite all that, I think that considering that the group I am a part of, ~SJ~, has the top MWLL server, Huntress, and is one of the most active in the mod still with lots of friendly and helpful people in it that a good number of people in the BT/MW community are not fooled by the whole "SJ R TEH BAHDGUHYS" liberal media spin (looking at you Warden Clan/Comstar lovers) that is so prevalent on the forums.

So let me get this straight, I should suffer the complaints of players who love being Stormtroopers right? How about Imperial Assassins? Sith lords? Clans were billed as uber-bad guys, the boogeymen so foreign in their ways and bloodthirsty in their invasion. If everyone here worships the lore…well this is the lore: smoke jaguars were bad guys. That’s it, that’s all there is to it. I won’t bore you with anything about turtle bay, I’m talking about the core of the SJ clan and the clans overall: the bad guys. Now there are merits to playing bad guys, it can be fun, provide a different point of view, but you should always maintain the knowledge that you are playing the bad guys.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 26 June 2012 - 01:26 PM.

[Fyad]

The universe would be an unambiguously better place if the last Crusader Clansman was strangled with the entrails of the last Warden Clansman

(in fiction)