129 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Bulletsponge0, on 24 September 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

Don't stand in front of a dire wolf and stare at it and its no more powerful than any other mech

The abyss stares back, and everything goes dark. Was it a Whale? No... you were likely eaten by Grues.

[Wintersdark]

lockwoodx, on 24 September 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Doesn't anyone shoot arms anymore? That solves most whale and hawk problems... IF you can wade through all the lrm spam to reach them.

Bad players, maybe.

What kind of moron targets the DWF's arms, when it's side torsos can lead to killing it, removing 2 ballistics or 2 missiles AND whatever the arms' carrying.

Man, I wish people would target my DWF's arms, and they're full of weapons. But at least if they clip off both arms, I've still got some ballistics and missiles firing and am no closer to death that I was before they chewed through ~200 points of armor and structure.

[Bilbo]

Wintersdark, on 24 September 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Bad players, maybe.

What kind of moron targets the DWF's arms, when it's side torsos can lead to killing it, removing 2 ballistics or 2 missiles AND whatever the arms' carrying.

Man, I wish people would target my DWF's arms, and they're full of weapons. But at least if they clip off both arms, I've still got some ballistics and missiles firing and am no closer to death that I was before they chewed through ~200 points of armor and structure.

Which is why I shoot them in the face.

[Lily from animove]

Wintersdark, on 24 September 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

The Direwolf is absolutely the best Anti-Assault mech in the game. But that's really where it's utility ends.

(Disclaimer: I'm not bragging here, I make no claims to being a god of DWF piloting)

The reality is, I don't care what your assault mech is carrying, you can not stay out of a mastered DWF's field of view. Lights and some mediums, absolutely. Fast Heavies can get by with intermittent bursts, where it depends on the DWF's loadout and patience. But Assaults? I'm sorry, as much as I love Victors (and still feel they are the best assault overall) Victor's just don't go fast enough to stay out of the DWF's line of fire.

In my time with my Direwolves (since the clan tests) I simply never lose evenly matched fights with other assaults. Ever. That is, where they've not surprised me with an unexpected rear attack or badly lopsided mech condition. But once we start fighting, if the other assault has not killed be outright from behind, he'll never get behind me again.

The DWF is a whale; terribly slow and cumbersome, but mastered it absolutely turns fast enough to keep any assault in front of it (or briefly to the sides).

The reality is, though, crushing opposing assaults (or stupid heavy/medium pilots) is specifically what the Direwolf is for. It pays for that with:

1) Being so painfully slow a fast team with either leave it behind, or have to slow down to it's speed to stay with it, surrendering tactical advantage to the opposing team in many cases. The mere presence of a Direwolf on your team instantly limits your options.

2) Painfully vulnerable from above. It's huge, flat upper chassis is an LRM magnet (and the Direwolf is one of the few mechs pretty much entirely unable to escape LRM rain), and is extremely vulnerable to targets at higher elevations - they have an enormous, easy to hit cube, while the DWF is limited to it's arm weapons to return fire, if that.

3) Extremely vulnerable to any half-decent Light or Medium pilot. Other assaults, Victors, Atlas, etc - they all have very agile arms and the ability to mount larger engines (resulting in faster twist rates) and are nowhere near as vulnerable to such mechs.

4) The DWF pilot nearly never has control of an engagement. His opponents can pretty much always disengage at will, while he's forced to stand and fight.



So, what does all this mean? It means that the Direwolf is a low/mid Elo PUG crusher, but is very, very vulnerable to skilled players. It's got several extremely significant flaws that can be exploited by any moderately skilled player, rendering it a potent and dangerous but niche mech.

Well, the direwolf has a role as heavy weapon platform, and so its drawbacks. And a good player group should pay attention for the lights and mediums trying to attack the wolf.

Edited by Lily from animove, 25 September 2014 - 01:30 AM.

[Mawai]

sirzorn, on 24 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Show me in private match please. Its not that i want to show off my awesomeness (as i said, i am actually quite new to mwo), its just that i cannot believe in what you are saying.

Direwolf has a huge amount of firepower ... but its torso twist and turn rate are not good. This means that most mechs can out maneuver it. I would take my Jenner against a DireWhale 1:1 and I suspect the Jenner would win most in not all of the time with decent pilots unless the Jenner makes a mistake and crosses in front of the DireWhale.

I would certainly expect my Jester to make short work of a DireWhale 1:1.

But the strength of the DireWhale is in the middle of groups leading a charge where it is difficult to flank it.

If you are finding the DireWhale to be a power house then I suspect that you have encountered opponents who stand in front of you in the open and tend to charge 1:1 ... this is a less than ideal tactic against the DireWhale.

In the case of the Atlas ... it will be constantly torso twisting to spread damage and firing when the weapons have cooled down during the portion of the twist facing you. The DireWhale is a bit slow to do this well. On the other hand the DW probably has a DPS advantage. If the Atlas can close range ... it can probably manage to stay to your side and rear for much of the fight and win that way. Anyway ... the match up is probably not as cut and dried as either side seems to think

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Wintersdark, on 24 September 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Bad players, maybe.

What kind of moron targets the DWF's arms, when it's side torsos can lead to killing it, removing 2 ballistics or 2 missiles AND whatever the arms' carrying.

Man, I wish people would target my DWF's arms, and they're full of weapons. But at least if they clip off both arms, I've still got some ballistics and missiles firing and am no closer to death that I was before they chewed through ~200 points of armor and structure.

I love how "softer targets" went right over tryhards heads. Talk about "bad players" LOL keep shooting that whale's face full of armor while it obliterates you. I laugh every time I see cocky players who think they can twist that kind of damage away and facetank them.

[Livewyr]

I actually get higher damage numbers on average with the Warhawk. I can load a fairly decent amount of firepower with good heat management, and actually maneuver the battlefield with it.

In the Warhawk, I can move with my team, rather than my team moving with me.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Livewyr, on 24 September 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I actually get higher damage numbers on average with the Warhawk. I can load a fairly decent amount of firepower with good heat management, and actually maneuver the battlefield with it.

In the Warhawk, I can move with my team, rather than my team moving with me.

Would you call it the Clan version of the Victor? Just curious because it seems that way from the lets play videos on YouTube.

[Mcgral18]

lockwoodx, on 24 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

I love how "softer targets" went right over tryhards heads. Talk about "bad players" LOL keep shooting that whale's face full of armor while it obliterates you. I laugh every time I see cocky players who think they can twist that kind of damage away and facetank them.

The WubShee does this all the time.

DoT builds have that downside. The PP FLD builds even spread a little now, if 20 and 30 damage segments if you're fast enough and at 200+M.

[Wintersdark]

lockwoodx, on 24 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

I love how "softer targets" went right over tryhards heads. Talk about "bad players" LOL keep shooting that whale's face full of armor while it obliterates you. I laugh every time I see cocky players who think they can twist that kind of damage away and facetank them.

I certainly didn't say stare them in the face - rather, if you can hit his arms, you can hit his side torsos (and quite possibly his face!). So, never shoot the arms, that's a waste of time. Hit the side torso, shear off half his firepower. If he's looking at you, get the hell out of the way

Even in another direwolf, you never, ever stare down a direwolf. Even in a direwolf vs direwolf fight, unless one is badly damaged to start or just unspeakably bad, you may win that fight, but it'll probably be the only one you win in that match.

[Mawai]

lockwoodx, on 24 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

I love how "softer targets" went right over tryhards heads. Talk about "bad players" LOL keep shooting that whale's face full of armor while it obliterates you. I laugh every time I see cocky players who think they can twist that kind of damage away and facetank them.

I'm not sure I follow. I think someone was suggesting shooting the arms on the DireWhale and another suggested that this doesn't make that much sense ... and I agree. The side torsos make much more sense as a target than the arms.

The front side torso will have about 75 points of armor (84 total and I figure there will be a token amount on the back) while the arms have 68. In addition, unlike most clan mechs, the DW will have either 4 ballistics or 2 ballistics and 2 missile hardpoints in the side torsos so unlike the lighter clan mechs with all the weapons in the arms ... losing an arm may not substantially reduce the firepower. As a result, at least for the DW ... this makes the side torsos a preferred target over the arms ... since they will eliminate the side torso and arm weapons as well as allowing for the mech to be destroyed by getting rid of either the CT or the other side torso.

In this case the arm is not a softer target than the side torso since they are pretty much evenly matched in armor.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mcgral18, on 24 September 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

The WubShee does this all the time.

DoT builds have that downside. The PP FLD builds even spread a little now, if 20 and 30 damage segments if you're fast enough and at 200+M.

I'll believe that when I see it, especially when you're talking about a walking skyscraper with XL torsos. Sounds more like you're taking advantage of the LBX meta which is admittedly easier to twist off.

Mawai, on 24 September 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

I'm not sure I follow. I think someone was suggesting shooting the arms on the DireWhale and another suggested that this doesn't make that much sense ... and I agree. The side torsos make much more sense as a target than the arms.

The problem is they're/you're generalizing shooting arms off any'ole mech when I'm very specific about the whale which boats most of the weapons in the arms, and rarely do players put full armor on them. I've been brawling whales with my AWS-9V at 250 range a LOT lately so I'm sharing my experience on how to leave them helpless asap. Going for torsos at the ranges I engage in gives the whale more time to turn, and no sir, I do not want a whale turning enough to face me.

Edited by lockwoodx, 24 September 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Mcgral18]

lockwoodx, on 24 September 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I'll believe that when I see it, especially when you're talking about a walking skyscraper with XL torsos. Sounds more like you're taking advantage of the LBX meta which is admittedly easier to twist off.

Generally laser+dual gauss.

Those are big arms that soak damage.


Dakka Whales are the easiest to spread against.

[Brody319]

Dire Whales are not op. I've faced one in a catapult, clearly I was out matched, but I just ran around behind and kept poking its back. They are really slow, Heavies can run around them. Yes if you face them head on you will die, but if you face an atlas/awesome head on you are probably going to get destroyed. only the awesome and atlas turns faster so is arguably more effective in close combat.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mcgral18, on 24 September 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

Generally laser+dual gauss.

Those are big arms that soak damage.


Dakka Whales are the easiest to spread against.

When I see gauss in the arms I especially pop those suckers asap.

[Thomas G Wolf]

Viktor Drake, on 24 September 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

You have the upcoming King Crab which will likely give a Dire a run for its money in sheer destructive capability and it might even have better hit boxes so just because the Dire is perhaps the best Assault right now (debatable honestly because of its poor speed and mobility) it might not be tomorrow.

LOL the basic King Crab is SLOW has 2 AC 20s with ONE ton of ammo for each gun, One LRM15 with ONE ton of ammo and an ER Large and THAT IS IT! No more no less, so do not get your hopes up high, now if they were bringing in the Imp or the Anni well then that is a differnet story.

[Sandpit]

What the op is talking about has less to do with clans than it does with the "kill em all" play style. Until there's incentive to take something other than a player's "best" or "favorite" mech that's not going to change

[Bilbo]

Eric Wulfen, on 24 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

LOL the basic King Crab is SLOW has 2 AC 20s with ONE ton of ammo for each gun, One LRM15 with ONE ton of ammo and an ER Large and THAT IS IT! No more no less, so do not get your hopes up high, now if they were bringing in the Imp or the Anni well then that is a differnet story.

Umm...why would I leave it stock?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Sandpit, on 24 September 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Until there's incentive to take something other than a player's "best" or "favorite" mech that's not going to change

Repair and Reload use to do that.
Tonnage Restrictions would do that.
3/3/3/3 failed to do that...

Bilbo, on 24 September 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Umm...why would I leave it stock?

Because a good crab stock is the foundation for bisque!

Edited by lockwoodx, 24 September 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Bilbo]

lockwoodx, on 24 September 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Repair and Reload use to do that.
Tonnage Restrictions would do that.
3/3/3/3 failed to do that...



Because a good crab stock is the foundation for bisque!

Repair and reload never kept me from running my favorite mech and I use less ammo now than I did then. I doubt tonnage restrictions would change anything either, unless the were ridiculously restrictive.