81 replies to this topic

[Skadi]

Battlecruiser, on 23 June 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

World of Tanks is a poorly made, belarus(see: russian) run game that does a very good job of discriminating its players on both the competitive and casual levels in favor of whales- with a little german tank bias at the behest of the competitive community mixed in for good measure.

Oh i know what it is, i just stopped CARING when he stated that.

[Arctic]

I think one of the main points missing from this topic is that, from my understanding, the whole point of the founders is inherent from the name... you're giving them money to help lay the foundation for the game. This isn't a pre-order. This is a special distinction given to people that gave their money right at the start and the benefits are PGI's way of saything thanks to those who do. If you don't want to give them your money now, that's fine, it's a F2P game so you can wait and then give them as much money as you want, whenever you want. You just wont be a founder.

[Lord Exalted]

RedWolfz0r, on 23 June 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Ok, so I signed up as soon as I heard about MWO. I reserved my pilot name. Then I have heard no information at all until these Founders packs were announced and I received an email about them.

This is a huge PR disaster. I would be more than willing to spend $120 on a Founders Pack if I knew what I was getting. However my beta status is "Pending" and everyone involved in the beta is under NDA, so I am basically being asked to pre-order an expensive game I have seen no information about.

I love the idea of MWO, but if you want my money (and I know for a fact a lot of my WoT clan mates feel the same way) then let me try the game before I invest in it.

pls remember that the point of the founders pack is not pre ordering the game, so much as making sure it will happen which is why there are several different lvls of payment also remember that if you dont want to pay till you play then just wait till you get in the beta or it comes out for good.

[RedWolfz0r]

Tymanthius, on 23 June 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

So you're saying that only info that comes from unofficial sources is 'real'? That's just silly, if I understand you correctly.

The fact is, there is a lot of info out there. It also all (I think) comes from the official source.

That, apparently, doesn't fit your needs. That's a shame, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of information available, EVEN IF IT ISN'T THE INFO YOU WANT.

And, yes, you are playing the "help me" game b/c when given the very things you originally asked for, you said it wasn't right.

If you don't want to get a founder's pack, that's fine. And your reasons are as good as any. But don't make untrue claims, and then state that THOSE are the reasons. IE: There's no info available, so I won't buy. The correct statement is: The info I want isn't available, so I won't buy.

As to the Aussie law: Most US states have a similar law, we refer to it as a Lemon Law. But software isn't sold, it licensed, which is a whole 'nother problem in and of itself.

Yes, I am saying that promotional gameplay videos from the developer are a poor source of information for deciding whether a game is fun to play. I would think this would be obvious to anyone.

I don't know where all of this information is that you keep talking about, but you are right, it's not the information I want. So let me rephrase my request:

If I am being asked, by email, to pay non-refundable money for a game, can I have the information I want about it first, please?

Besh, on 23 June 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

OP simply wants early access to the game. He uses the possibility of him buying a founders pack afterwards as the bone. The point about PG/IGP potentially lossing out on customers/money is just the marker to underline his attempt.

In fact, there are good and understandeable reasons for MW:O not being opened to ANYONE whod love to participate as long as its still in CB State. Its actually an extremely smart and Applause deserving way to use the HUGE desire of people to be part of CB as a means to actually fund the cost. It gives the developer/publisher a lot of information as well as prevents them from throwing a lot of money into enabling people who simply want to have early access to be part of CB on the possibility of those people spending money later.

What PG/IGP are doing is smart, and shows great care. They dont throw money ( =HW ) at potential revenue. They know the resoure is available to them ( = countless people wanting to be part of CB and more than happy to support them and give em money for that to happen ), so they actually GENERATE income to fund part of the CB2 expenses.

I do not care whether or not I get early access. You seem to have completely missed my point. My point is that I want the opportunity to try the game before I make the decision to pre-order. That is all.

What they are doing is in no way smart. Tying closed beta access to the pre-order is done regularly, however closing pre-orders before open beta begins is beyond silly. It just doesn't happen in the computer games industry, f2p or otherwise.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

even if they can't share specifics, I would prefer to know in detail the concepts they are considering to impliment under the context of "NONE OF THIS IS FINAL". I really want to know about how tech trees work and how random games will work to slay this nightmare I keep having about "World of Mechwarriors". completely and honestly the only thing that keeps me from investing into this game off of hopes and dreams is how relatable this game can be to world of tanks and the memory of how miserable world of tanks made me

Edited by Battlecruiser, 23 June 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Arctic]

RedWolfz0r, on 23 June 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

What they are doing is in no way smart. Tying closed beta access to the pre-order is done regularly, however closing pre-orders before open beta begins is beyond silly. It just doesn't happen in the computer games industry, f2p or otherwise.

That's the thing, they aren't closing pre-orders. The founders program is just the first of many opportunties PGI will give you to throw your money at them. The fact that it closes before the open beta begins is part of the point of being a founder. It's what makes it special for people to have payed them before they even got a real look at the game. It's not silly, it's a loyalty program / reward program.

[Besh]

RedWolfz0r, on 23 June 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Yes, I am saying that promotional gameplay videos from the developer are a poor source of information for deciding whether a game is fun to play. I would think this would be obvious to anyone.

I don't know where all of this information is that you keep talking about, but you are right, it's not the information I want. So let me rephrase my request:

If I am being asked, by email, to pay non-refundable money for a game, can I have the information I want about it first, please?




I do not care whether or not I get early access. You seem to have completely missed my point. My point is that I want the opportunity to try the game before I make the decision to pre-order. That is all.

What they are doing is in no way smart. Tying closed beta access to the pre-order is done regularly, however closing pre-orders before open beta begins is beyond silly. It just doesn't happen in the computer games industry, f2p or otherwise.

Wow now...its been stated in this very thread several times: its NOT a preorder ! You are NOT buying the game. The game will be F2P. You can simply wait til OB starts, be part of it, then decide whether you want to spend money. No cost attached.

The mail was an offer and heads up. Nothing more.

Now, whats with the complaining and argueing?

[Tymanthius]

Ok, so if you don't care about early access, why do you care about a Founder's Pack? The bonuses of the mech?

You are aware of the fact that this is a FREE game, right? No Purchase Needed. Ever.

As to the 'lots of info:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/
http://mwomercs.com/...elopers-corner/
http://mwomercs.com/...s/forum/67-qas/
http://mwomercs.com/...m/64-dev-blogs/

None of those are direct links, you will have to click & read some. But now, please stop saying there isn't any info out there.

As to this question: "If I am being asked, by email, to pay non-refundable money for a game, can I have the information I want about it first, please?" You are not being asked to pay for a game. You are being asked to help fund a project, and in return you get some perks in the game. But the game itself will never cost you a dime directly (we're not counting your PC, inet costs, electricity, etc).

And could you please, define, very specifically, what information you want? Some things may be available. But no one but YOU seems to know what it is you want.

[Darsh]

Well, I have to admit that I tend to agree with RedWolfz0r on this guys.. I personally bought the Elite Founder's pack thinking that by July 17th, I'd be able to get into Closed Beta and test the game.. and then potentially upgrade to Legendary Pack if I enjoy it alot!.. But then I found out the Closed Beta for Founders has been pushed to August 7th.. and that we won't be able to purchase or Upgrade Founder's packs at that point.. I have to admit that I am VERY disappointed with this decision from the devs.. as I'm sure i am not the only person who would throw more money at them after playing the game and trying it out for myself.

The reason why ppl like RedWolf and myself like to try games before throwing money at them is because we've been victims of games such as Tribes Ascend where the company (Hirez Studios) launched the game when it should still have been a beta, waited months to release any kind of updates to a broken game.. and would rather release content updates with more Weapons and items (to make money) instead of fixing bugs and game mechanics that should have been fixed 5 months ago.. So.. most ppl who purchase the VIP membership for Tribes Ascent spent that money in advance to support a company that doesn't support its community.. But it didn't always seem like that.. prior to Launch.. Hirez was great with the community and seemed to value the opinions of players.. ect..

Anywho.. you can't really classify Video and media that was released by the Devs to be a "good" source of information since its extremely biased.. You want other players to honestly talk about the game..since they will tell you how it really is.. and they will point out the perks.. and of course.. the cons... and there are always cons.

I would have to disagree about the "TONS" of information on this game.. If you're new to this website.. its very difficult to navigate the forums and find information you're looking for.. and still.. there is no media demonstrating how the matchmaking works.. how the world / territories / planets look before you drop.. how to select territory you wish to conquer for your house.. and how that whole Territorial Conquest aspect of the game works! If there is any info on that.. Its probably lost somewhere in the forums and I think all that info shouldn't just be in the forums.. but in a nice little section of their website called "About MWO" They do need to update the site.. as ppl don't want to have to dig for information.. and it could very well completely destroy what little interest they have in the game.

Luckily.. most ppl here are already fans of the Mech Warrior / Battletech Universe.. so.. its not hard to capture our interest in this game.. but anyone else who's only heard recently about Giant robots blowing up other giant robots will certainly want to have more information at their disposal without having to look through the forums for hours.

Anywho.. my 2 cents

[SnakePliskin]

simply stated, earlier statements by mwo creators led me to believe that by buying the founders pack i would receive beta test axcess. i understand that to not be true till aug. i cool about it. im sure i will spend the money for the founders pack. i have heard mixed reviews from friends in beta testing that the game is rough and has bugs. i trust their opinion and am slightly worried that in the end i will be dissatisfied. i have the money but others may not.

[Besh]

Tymanthius, on 23 June 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Ok, so if you don't care about early access, why do you care about a Founder's Pack? The bonuses of the mech?

You are aware of the fact that this is a FREE game, right? No Purchase Needed. Ever.

As to the 'lots of info:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/
http://mwomercs.com/...elopers-corner/
http://mwomercs.com/...s/forum/67-qas/
http://mwomercs.com/...m/64-dev-blogs/

None of those are direct links, you will have to click & read some. But now, please stop saying there isn't any info out there.

As to this question: "If I am being asked, by email, to pay non-refundable money for a game, can I have the information I want about it first, please?" You are not being asked to pay for a game. You are being asked to help fund a project, and in return you get some perks in the game. But the game itself will never cost you a dime directly (we're not counting your PC, inet costs, electricity, etc).

And could you please, define, very specifically, what information you want? Some things may be available. But no one but YOU seems to know what it is you want.

I think he stated in his first post what he wants:

Quote

I love the idea of MWO, but if you want my money (and I know for a fact a lot of my WoT clan mates feel the same way) then let me try the game before I invest in it.

And well, painfull as it seems to be to get it in: He can have that. Wait for OB, play it, THEN decide...

[PoPuP]

FOUNDERS PACKAGE ON SALE NOW read it, STOP your whining



RedWolfz0r gets a big

The game will be F2P so wait till its out and try it !

Edited by PoPuP, 23 June 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[RedWolfz0r]

Arctic, on 23 June 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

That's the thing, they aren't closing pre-orders. The founders program is just the first of many opportunties PGI will give you to throw your money at them. The fact that it closes before the open beta begins is part of the point of being a founder. It's what makes it special for people to have payed them before they even got a real look at the game. It's not silly, it's a loyalty program / reward program.

How can you not see how discriminatory this is? Everyone who is Closed Beta right now knows whether the game is good or not, but they can't even talk about it. Those who have not been invited have no clue. Everyone has been asked for money.

I have stated this over and over, it's not a complicated concept. I want to give them my money and be part of the Founders program, I just want to know what I'm getting.

[Herzog]

I look at the Founders packs sorta like Kickstarter. Same idea really; put some money up front, get a few little perks later. For me it's more about putting my money where my mouth is and supporting the franchise.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

SnakePliskin, on 23 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

simply stated, earlier statements by mwo creators led me to believe that by buying the founders pack i would receive beta test axcess. i understand that to not be true till aug. i cool about it. im sure i will spend the money for the founders pack. i have heard mixed reviews from friends in beta testing that the game is rough and has bugs. i trust their opinion and am slightly worried that in the end i will be dissatisfied. i have the money but others may not.

well I don't usually take the BUT IT'S A BETA side but I think I will try;

Basically in today's iteration of "the industry", most gamers are trained by publishers more invested in the business and advertising aspect of gaming to expect fully finished products when the word "beta" is announced. Hypocritically these same companies will cry IT'S JUST A BETA THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE BUGS when their product is **** and full of fail, just to entice purchases- but I digress.

In mech warrior's case, I believe calling it a beta stays true to the definition of the word, and that until the game reaches the open phase, more typically reserved for stress testing and polishing, we won't have a very good idea of what the "live" version of the game will be. If you're going to purchase a founders pack, I first suggest looking at all the information you can find until you are satisified that the game is moving in a direction you like before deciding to support it. This choice is entirely up to you and you have no reason to defend yourselves or criticise others on the subject unless you're simply looking for an argument, because in time your actions will speak for themselves more brilliantly than any of us could ever try.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 23 June 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[Besh]

Ok, so you want to be part of the Founders programme and know what youre getting upfront...heres the ( not so new ) News: as the information available at this moment indicates, most likely wont happen! If only cos they introduce patches between the end of CB1 and the start of CB2.

Maybe, just maybe there will be more Videos about actual gameplay before Aug 7th, but as for being able to play/test the game bfore CB1 ends...unless youre one of the lucky ones still being drawn in ( theyre still planning to add people right? ), most likely wont happen.

SO...what? Continue argueing and complaining cos you dont get what you want ?

SnakePliskin, on 23 June 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

i have heard mixed reviews from friends in beta testing that the game is rough and has bugs. i trust their opinion and am slightly worried that in the end i will be dissatisfied. i have the money but others may not.

Cant believe you posted that. Also, cant believe you expect a game which is in its CB State to be anything else than rough and buggy...in all honesty, that entire post does not read like trustworthy at all...

Edited by Besh, 23 June 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[Rixx]

RedWolfz0r, on 23 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

How can you not see how discriminatory this is? Everyone who is Closed Beta right now knows whether the game is good or not, but they can't even talk about it. Those who have not been invited have no clue. Everyone has been asked for money.

I have stated this over and over, it's not a complicated concept. I want to give them my money and be part of the Founders program, I just want to know what I'm getting.

Wow, it's been mentioned dozens of times already, but here we go again. The game is FREE TO PLAY. You are not be asked to pay anyone anything. They are giving you an option to support them with some rewards if you do. You could pay nothing and still play the game, or you could pay some money now, or you could pay some money later. It's that simple You've not been asked to do anything, just given an opportunity.

If you are not comfortable paying money for something you haven't seen yet, then just don't. We understand. But trying to argue about why it's unfair is kinda silly.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

I've happened to be in the wrong places at the right times and gleamed some information about closed beta however this is inconsequential.
assuming what I saw and heard was the finished product would be the same as assuming a still forming molten planet earth was ready for living creatures, however while that took millions of years I'm pretty sure our developers are many times faster than that

Edited by Battlecruiser, 23 June 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[SnakePliskin]

Im sure in the end i will be pleased as punch. But really if ford were trying to sell me a great car but i could only look at pictures of it before i dropped my non-refundable deposit, i might be a bit sceptical.

[Arctic]

Rixx, on 23 June 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Wow, it's been mentioned dozens of times already, but here we go again. The game is FREE TO PLAY. You are not be asked to pay anyone anything. They are giving you an option to support them with some rewards if you do. You could pay nothing and still play the game, or you could pay some money now, or you could pay some money later. It's that simple You've not been asked to do anything, just given an opportunity.

If you are not comfortable paying money for something you haven't seen yet, then just don't. We understand. But trying to argue about why it's unfair is kinda silly.

What he said. It's simple, you want to be a founder but you don't wanna pay right now. Fine. You just don't get to be a founder and that's it. If you decide to pay anything at all for this game (which, by the way, is optional) then you get to be whatever payment program exists at the time. I completely understand all the mentioned concerns about not wanting to pay till you know what you're getting, and that's not what we're arguing here. It just seems like you're entirely missing the point of the founders program and, as such, you're claiming it's unfair when it really isn't.

SnakePliskin, on 23 June 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Im sure in the end i will be pleased as punch. But really if ford were trying to sell me a great car but i could only look at pictures of it before i dropped my non-refundable deposit, i might be a bit sceptical.

That doesn't really apply. It's more like pay now and you can get a Ford with this sweet paint job, or just wait a few months and you can drive the same car for free, just sans the paint job.