353 replies to this topic

[bane]

In order for CW to be managable, there really needs to be a major change in PGI's attitude towards communications in game. While VoIP in-game would be great, I'll set that pipe-dream to the side and go with something that is alot more important. For ForceFactions to be able to make "effective" decisions, they need to have two key tools.

• Number of Online ForceFaction specific players. This allows people to know if they are Kuritians and want to attack Davion, do they have enough people on and does Davion have an overwhelming number of players, where attacking them might not make sense.
  
• An online, in-game Force\Faction chat system. This would allow for groups to form up, better coordination, and better community since right now the community is really a million different people all doing their own thing, in their own way with no cohesion or purpose.

These two relatively simple things would go a very long way to helping people to feel a part of their chosen faction\force as well.

Another question is will there be a fix before CW for the Units that got created with the incorrect faction attached? i.e. our Unit was formed with the leader being Clan Wolf, but we are shown in-game as being affiliated with Merc Corps.

[Jakob Knight]

Scratx, on 25 September 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

This also brings up another question. What about every mech that is heavily or entirely dependent on ammunition? Will there be points where you can reload? In matches this long, ammo WILL be a concern, and we don't want CW to become LaserWarrior Online. Ejection can actually help there as once you run out of ammo, assuming you can't reload, you can always just eject and bring the next mech.

Actually, we -do- want CW to become LaserWarrior Online if the reason is that people are actually thinking of ammunition and supply issues instead of simply blazing away with the most powerful weapons in the game. One of the main reasons energy weapons were used in the battlefields of the Inner Sphere was specifically because they provided a weapon that could function in environments where supply was an issue, to the point that mechs specifically noted as being intended to operate for long periods away from supply were designed as energy weapons platforms.

Ammunition weapons feature significant advantages over energy weapons, and this is balanced by their dependence on ammunition, especially in longer battles. If a player wants to go into CW with poor fire discipline for their ballistic or missile weapons, then it is up to them to carry enough ammo to support their fighting style. There is enough easy-mode pandering in CW with the immersion-breaking respawn of Dropship Mode (which should never have seen the light of day for CW, but we know this is a shoe-in at this point...I mean, 'personal dropships'?? How utterly unrealistic and lore-breaking can you get??), and we don't need more arcade/e-sports in what is supposed to be the hard-core, main part of the game.

[BigBangA1]

I have an idea regarding the mech respawn counter and an alternative way to win a planetary conquest match. I personally think the respawn timer should be slightly longer than 30 seconds, personally I believe a minute would be ideal. This actually adds a slightly more intense penalty to risky play, since it could potentially take you significantly longer to get back into the match if you die.

The second part of this idea would be an alternative win condition if you manage to kill all of the enemy mechs that are on the field at any one time (for example, you manage to kill all 12 enemy mechs before the 1 minute respawn timer completes). This would function in a similar function to tabling (killing all of your opponents army) you opponent in Warhammer 40k. It would encourage more tactical play, (it could also add an element of high risk and high reward to the game. Do you try to kill that last enemy mech before the next wave of reinforcements land, or do you trust your numerical advantage).

Overall I doubt this kind of win would happen very often. As long as one light is watching and paying attention, he should be able to buy enough time for a respawn.

[Kain Demos]

Scratx, on 25 September 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Good stuff, Paul. However, it does raise me a few questions.

First of all, if the CW matches are going to last a lot longer, "Pilot Ejection" should probably be allowed in CW matches. The problem can be seen rather easily by just thinking about what an Atlas D-DC with both side torsos blown off can do in battle. (hint: Pretty much nothing)

The smart clanners would simply choose not to finish him off and effectively eliminate for the rest of the match one of the Spheroid's team's members, and all his respawn mechs. Bonus if they ALSO leg him so he doesn't run off to out of bounds anytime fast.

So... empowering the players in a CW match to self-destroy (and award kill to whomever did the most damage? ) in order to have access to their other mechs is a better idea than not, in my opinion. Mind, I don't think on standard matches this option should be given. But CW matches, that take so long and have respawns available? Forcing the player to be alive in a crippled and useless mech is exactly the reason why mechs were allowed to keep walking upright when they are legged!

This also brings up another question. What about every mech that is heavily or entirely dependent on ammunition? Will there be points where you can reload? In matches this long, ammo WILL be a concern, and we don't want CW to become LaserWarrior Online. Ejection can actually help there as once you run out of ammo, assuming you can't reload, you can always just eject and bring the next mech.

Please note I am not asking for repair pads. I don't think repairs belong there. But rearming is probably necessary to help keep ballistics and missiles viable in CW matches. Again, because they have the potential to take a long time. I don't want to say RIP CN9-AH or CPLT-A1... (hint : neither have energy hardpoints)

These are, off-hand, my biggest concerns right now. I want diversity on the CW battlefield, not LaserWarrior Online. I'm afraid ammo-reliant mechs will go the way of the dodo. Likewise, there's borderline griefing scenarios (which are still legitimate play, mind) like the one I pointed out if people can't actually act on "Yeah, my mech is now useless, I want to ditch this one and get a new one in", so letting them actually do it would help...

A useless zombie can just have a friend TK him if this happens.

[Spanklorg]

I pretty much skimmed over the CW and all of it looks REALLY cool, However i do have one question that is lore related:

Currently we all drop in companies (12 players, 3 lances)

Would you guys be so cool as to allow Clanners to drop in binaries? (10 players, 2 stars)

Cause that would be boss, and then Clanners can get away with all their equipment being slightly more bullshit than all us IS players who have real parents.

[Kain Demos]

JagdFlanker, on 25 September 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

i believe it's the same maps as we use now - either they pick 1 map to represent that planet and everybody battles on that, or it's still random maps (assuming there's more than 1 battle for each specific planet - maybe not). it's the outcome of all the battles that decides who gets the planet - it would be more immersive if a specific climate was used for individual planets, but then again all the climates are available on this single planet Terra as we speak lol

Not quite.

HPG manifold is clearly a zero or low atmosphere environment that is not compatible with any of the other maps we see as far as "could it exist on the same planet" goes.

Caustic's atmosphere looks Venusian and I don't see that being compatible with any of the other maps either. Tourmaline is pretty exotic as well--I wouldn't expect that to exist on the same planet as many of these other maps.

They also give you specific gravity numbers for the maps....if it is different it can't be the same planet.

We do have a lot of maps though that it wouldn't be difficult to believe existing on the same planet--River City, Alpine, Forest Colony, Frozen City, Crimson Straight, Canyon Network, Mining Collective. I'd even throw Terra Therma in there--a planet with inhabitable regions could feasibly have a very vulcanized region as well. It'd be like deciding to fight over Mt Kilauea and Mauna Loa here on earth for some reason.

Edited by Kain Thul, 25 September 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Paul Inouye, on 24 September 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

Feedback on my post here: http://mwomercs.com/...-update-sept-24

Can be posted in this thread. Thanks!

hey Paul, I still see one MAJOR issue with CW 12 man drops. First off thank you for lifting the restriction that we HAVE to go into a match as a 12 man. BUT do you guys really expect teams... Say as an example, my unit goes in as a 6 men and we use Team Speak, to be able to properly function with 6 other random guys/gals that don't?

What I'm getting at is not everyone likes and or wants to communicate by "typing". Most use Team Speak or something similar. But even the Team Speak users don't all use the same TS. So when are we going to get a true in game lobby where once in, my 6, 8, 10 guys can vocally communicate with whoever else we get pared with?

Not being able to openly communicate vocally with ALL player (friend or not) on our 12 man team, is really going to frustrate many VERY QUICK!

[Scratx]

Jakob Knight, on 25 September 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Actually, we -do- want CW to become LaserWarrior Online if the reason is that people are actually thinking of ammunition and supply issues instead of simply blazing away with the most powerful weapons in the game. One of the main reasons energy weapons were used in the battlefields of the Inner Sphere was specifically because they provided a weapon that could function in environments where supply was an issue, to the point that mechs specifically noted as being intended to operate for long periods away from supply were designed as energy weapons platforms.

Ammunition weapons feature significant advantages over energy weapons, and this is balanced by their dependence on ammunition, especially in longer battles. If a player wants to go into CW with poor fire discipline for their ballistic or missile weapons, then it is up to them to carry enough ammo to support their fighting style. There is enough easy-mode pandering in CW with the immersion-breaking respawn of Dropship Mode (which should never have seen the light of day for CW, but we know this is a shoe-in at this point...I mean, 'personal dropships'?? How utterly unrealistic and lore-breaking can you get??), and we don't need more arcade/e-sports in what is supposed to be the hard-core, main part of the game.

Well, with the ejection idea, losing a mech is a harsh penalty. 4 mechs is all you have.

Alternatively, with the ammo depots? If you run out of ammo you'd be looking at spending quite some time running back there, rearming, and then running back to the battle. Isn't that a penalty too?

Finally, consider this. If the goal is to turn it into LaserWarrior Online, won't it hand the Clans a good advantage? Clan lasers greatly outrange IS lasers and do more damage. While they're hotter, many clan mechs can boat heatsinks better than IS, due to 2 crits per sink.

I think it would be a tragedy if CW matches devolve into lasers and lasers and ppcs and nothing but energy weapons aside from the odd SRMs or something.

Kain Thul, on 25 September 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

A useless zombie can just have a friend TK him if this happens.

Come on, this can't be a serious suggestion. If TK'ing becomes necessary, something's gone very wrong.

[Vassago Rain]

You need to figure out a way to get some kind of repairs and more ammo down to drop zones, or missile/ballistic mechs will fall by the wayside.

[Wintersdark]

Yoseful Mallad, on 25 September 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

hey Paul, I still see one MAJOR issue with CW 12 man drops. First off thank you for lifting the restriction that we HAVE to go into a match as a 12 man. BUT do you guys really expect teams... Say as an example, my unit goes in as a 6 men and we use Team Speak, to be able to properly function with 6 other random guys/gals that don't?

What I'm getting at is not everyone likes and or wants to communicate by "typing". Most use Team Speak or something similar. But even the Team Speak users don't all use the same TS. So when are we going to get a true in game lobby where once in, my 6, 8, 10 guys can vocally communicate with whoever else we get pared with?

Not being able to openly communicate vocally with ALL player (friend or not) on our 12 man team, is really going to frustrate many VERY QUICK!

It definitely makes an in-game VOIP solution even more important. Sure, everyone has their own TS/Mumble/Skype/Vent/C3/whatever software for their unit, but in-game VOIP would be a base-line for everyone (and conveniently inherently add team vs. unit separate comm channels, yay!)

[slide]

I updated my post from page 1 with some new thoughts, rather than forcing anybody to go back here it is again. If this violates anything Mods please change.

I am disappointed that Merc units will have to align with a faction at first but the rest of it sounds ok.

Edit:

I have had some time to think about this further and I fully understand that a full contracting system is too much to bite off at the moment, but I also recognize that a lot of units take pride in their status as a Merc Unit and will take um-bridge at having to choose a faction even if they do have a preferred faction they will play for. So what I suggest is (I will limit this discussion to IS units because I fail to see how Clans would use mercs but it would work for them as well):

SPONSORED UNIT STATUS.

-At the start of each season a Unit leader will elect to play for the Merc Faction. Once this is chosen you are locked into to playing as merc the same as any other faction.
-After this the unit leader get a splash screen showing all the houses and their bonus with a check box, selecting one gets you sponsored by that house for a period of time during that season. Lets say a week. When this happens the units faction tag changes from our familiar friend to one reflecting our sponsored status (excuse my art skills) Davion in this case



This would obviously have to cascade through to all the unit members but that function should already be in place.
-once you are sponsored you can only play for that faction the same any faction player.

At this point you would effectively be a faction player whilst retaining your merc status.

What do I get?
-all players belonging to a sponsored unit (in CW matches only) would get a 10% cbill bonus to in game earnings but do not get any other bonus's that regular faction players get such as cheaper faction specific mechs
-loyalty retainer, for every week a unit stays loyal to their sponsor they could get and additional 1% bonus (upto a maximum of say 20%)

At the end of the week the unit leader then decides to stay (do nothing) or get sponsored by another house.
It could get very interesting here as the Sponsor bonus could be used to get merc units to move to more active fronts.

Example: Davion is rampaging through Liao space. Liao doesn't have enough players to defend all the time. Increase the sponsor bonus to 20% to get more mercs to sign on with Liao. Similarly you could do the same for the FRR against the clans.

Addtionally you could allow units to break their contract in less time than the week stipulated at the cost of Cbills from the unit's coffers, say 5 million Cbills the first time and escalating from there to stop units changing sides every 5 minutes.

Most of the tools to make this happen should be in place or on the drawing board, It requires about 10 minutes from an artist (new icons) a new splash page in the UI for choosing a sponsor and a bit of data base work tracking who is doing what which should be mostly in place anyway.

Just my thoughts, you could do much more but lets keep it simple to start with.

[Gorgo7]

To the OP,

Glad to see it coming...what was that release date again?

Cheers!

Edited by Gorgo7, 25 September 2014 - 06:13 PM.

[Tauman]

Corncern regarding cost scaling with unit size-
From the sound of it the costs of CW could possibly be punitive for large units with mixed casual/competitive membership. Will costs be scaled purely by unit roster or by actual participation?

I'd hate to see units forced to fracture along casual/competitive lines for financial reasons.

[Jakob Knight]

Vassago Rain, on 25 September 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

You need to figure out a way to get some kind of repairs and more ammo down to drop zones, or missile/ballistic mechs will fall by the wayside.

No, they don't. Missile/Ballistic mechs will simply have to carry more ammo than what they get by with in an arena fight, and the pilots will have to manage their ammo with more care than the 'hold the button down till you run dry' that you get in a standard Public game. Same for taking damage....if you want to have that Dire Wolf for more than half the fight, you better take care of it. I -might- see the need for repair bases if the battles were going to go on for hours and the pilot only had one mech, but you are getting -4- mechs with which to respawn with. There is absolutely no need for any kind of in-battle repair and reload with this kind of setup.

CW is not an e-sport/arena game. It's the hardcore, full game, where the players have to act more like actual combat pilots than gladiators with only a few minutes of combat to worry about. It's bad enough that we have the Dropship mode to make things easy on players unable to deal with actually having to fight beyond 'rock-em-sock-em-robots', but adding in a crutch like battlefield reload and repair would only push CW farther into the realm of arcade game and away from the simulator game it is supposed to be.

I would also add that, should the pilot be putting themselves into combat long enough to run out of ammo, then the mech they are riding in will probably be so damaged that it won't last the full battle anyway to reload.

Finally, the mechlab allows pilots who find they simply cannot conserve ammo enough to be effective in CW to add more ammo to their mechs. If the pilots refuse to load in enough ammo for the full battle, then they take the penalty for trying to ride the razor of min/max.

We don't need more easy-mode for CW.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 25 September 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[Zfailboat]

You cannot allow for a 30 second respawn timer at a specified location. timers like this in pvp games create opportunities for players to "Spawncamp". and in a game like MWO even 1-2 players camping the enemy's teams spawn location could easily net themselves a free 5-10 kills.

you either need to make the respawn location such that it is impossible to get to / target by the enemy regardless of if is the attacker / defenders.

have the location be one of 3 random locations at least 500 M apart with walls etc in between.

or have the drop ship itself be armed to the teeth, so anyone within 500 M will get punished and anyone outside of 500m does not have a line of sight to it.

You also need to make it so that the drop ship automatically kills any UAV within 250 M so they cant have a light go drop a UAV there and have the other team LRM the respawned players to death.

[Jakob Knight]

Zfailboat, on 25 September 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

You cannot allow for a 30 second respawn timer at a specified location. timers like this in pvp games create opportunities for players to "Spawncamp". and in a game like MWO even 1-2 players camping the enemy's teams spawn location could easily net themselves a free 5-10 kills.

you either need to make the respawn location such that it is impossible to get to / target by the enemy regardless of if is the attacker / defenders.

have the location be one of 3 random locations at least 500 M apart with walls etc in between.

or have the drop ship itself be armed to the teeth, so anyone within 500 M will get punished and anyone outside of 500m does not have a line of sight to it.

You also need to make it so that the drop ship automatically kills any UAV within 250 M so they cant have a light go drop a UAV there and have the other team LRM the respawned players to death.

Or, the team could simply keep some of their forces back to defend their dropship. You know...rear guard forces?

Edited by Jakob Knight, 25 September 2014 - 06:51 PM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Hmmh. An interesting post. I noticed that quite a number of features were cut from the initial proposal - but I suppose at this point it seems like a much more doable/realistic plan compared to the "idealistic" first ideas.

I don't have a particular problem with seasons. Whilst I would prefer consistency, I can also see that a regular reset would refresh and thus reinvigorate the struggle for the Inner Sphere. It also liberates the game from a need to stick to particular timeline events such as the Truce, thus ensuring the persistence of war for the foreseeable future.

Additionally, the seasons could serve as the "contract length" for mercenary alignments. In the Battletech lore, it is quite common for mercs to be contracted to a particular House for not just weeks but months (seeing as travel time alone from a jump point to a targeted planet is measured in weeks, to say nothing of the actual campaign!), so this could serve as a neat cop-out for why the various merc units have to choose a particular faction as their employer, with whom they'd have to stick until the reset and thus contract fulfilment.

The only thing I'm sceptical about is how small groups and PUG players will fit into the greater picture. If I understand the explanation correctly, the only way to group with friends is if they were in the same guild? That feels like a decidedly unsocial implementation which undermines how members of a faction may coordinate joint efforts and help one another out (such as members of two or more smaller units deciding to form a joint group, as not enough pilots from their own outfit are online at the time, or perhaps just as part of an inter-unit partnership program .. or several PUG friends who are unguilded wishing to group, like it has been possible for years).
I would be grateful for a reassessment of the drawbacks of the chosen path, or a better explanation should I be mistaken.

slide, on 25 September 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Personally, I would recommend using the insignia of the employing House - but in grey (a grey dragon, grey fist, grey sword etc). I feel this might serve as a better remainder that the mercenary unit does not actually "change colours" but instead retains its "grey independence".

[Sandpit]

Some good info. I'm going to let it digest and read through it a few times. I like the premise of a lot stated. Still on tje fence about "seasons" would much rather let it just go until someone "wins".

One thing I'm definitely concerned about is the lack of info regarding LP. LP was originally advertised as helping players acquire "rank" within factions and players would earn bonuses within those factions.

It was also stated that we would be able to switch factions and we have 4 medallions that can be used for 4 different factions.

It wad also stated that a high rank within multiple factions would allow access to things like wolf's dragoons equipment and faction.

This sounds nothing like what was advertised (I mean not even remotely close) when we were deciding to purchase PP.

This may sound like a minor issue but it was a money purchase many of us made based on what was announced. I'm a little concerned now. What is LP? What is it used for? What's the point of it? Why give us multiple medallions for multiple factions?

There's no logistics for phase 2 and I can understand that. I've waited over a year now for my purchased items to do something besides sit there waiting to be chosen. PGI even encouraged players to select the faction for their medallions bit to be careful as they were locked once selected.

I would definitely appreciate some detailed information regarding this.

Other than those concerns I like the direction but don't understand why it's always about limitations and restrictions. Why not just open up the map and let it go? Why is PGI so determined to direct the campaign in a specific direction of their choosing instead of just letting players fight it out?

[Kilo 40]

Almond Brown, on 25 September 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Not sure what you mean. Whenever you play, it will be some regions "Prime time".

They gave 3 specific times at 2 hours each. That's only 6 hours out of a 24 hour day. and the times they listed are not times that I play.

Quote

It would be pretty hard for PGI to make a Prime time based on ones work schedule...

I wouldn't ask that. But I would ask that they make it available more than 6 hours of the day.

[Xanquil]

DarthRevis, on 25 September 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Currently there is not Fence sitting.....you must pick IS or Clan. I know a lot of people want to fight for both but i know for one if you Defended the IS i will never pick you up for my Clan once CW starts. You are a traitor at that point! lolz

And all if this was stated as to only be going on for "season 1" im sure they will figure it out by then....sucks for us Clan loyalist too because my group (CSA, SA) will now have to change our tags and act like a dirty Wolf or Falcon for the time being. Star Adders have bad relation with both of those so i guess its ghost bear or GTFO!

The thing as far as my concern goes I plan to fight for the IS, The thing is the Clans kicked the lot of us out a long time ago and we haven't forgotten it or forgiven them for trying to wipe us out.

I have no problem sticking to IS mechs, (as there are a lot of mechs that were around during the SLDF era.) I just have the issue with having to choose a house to be a part of.
I guess I'll go Kurita to get at the clans faster.

Remember The Star league didn't fail it just went into exile. Some of us are still part of the Royal Divisions.