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Community Warfare - Phase 2 Update - Sept24 Feedback

Community Warfare Feedback Sept 24

353 replies to this topic

#161 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:22 AM

Why can't I use more than one Hunchback if I have to own several Hunchbacks in order to level them?!



The game's leveling system is based on the concept of owning multiple variants of the same Chassis. Why are we not allowed to use multiple variants of the same Chassis in the game campaign if we are required to own multiple variants in order to level them up as part of playing the game?!

Edited by Prosperity Park, 25 September 2014 - 10:23 AM.


#162 Almond Brown

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:30 AM

View PostKill Dozer, on 25 September 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:


Because there are multiple weapons/loadout configs for the same chassis depending on the role of that mech in the group as well as environmental factors that come into consideration depending on the map. I have around four different configs I like to run on a Battlemaster 1G for example, the mechlab is clunky enough that it takes too much time between drops to change configs if I am running with a group. That "one of each weight class" always has several viable configs that could be chosen based on how the match is going to be played out. In the pug queue its not that big of a deal, running with a group makes it a whole different ball game.

Go over to smurphys and look at all the different load-outs for a given mech variant, Stalkers for example. Why not have those saved so if you hit a hot map you can choose a cooler build or if you hit a cold map you can load up that laser boat, all with a few clicks instead of ten minutes in the lab moving engines, weapons, sinks and modules.


An "Elited" Mech requires 3 Chassis be in use, unless sold after Basic, which is just silly really, so 3 Mechs per weight class should be plenty to have a chassis ready to go for most fights?

What do you want? 1 Dragon Brawler/Cold, one Dragon Brawler/Hot, one Dragon Brawler/Neutral etc. etc. for ALL Chassis.?

Edited by Almond Brown, 25 September 2014 - 10:31 AM.


#163 Almond Brown

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:40 AM

View PostLord Jay, on 25 September 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

It seems like the drop ship mechanic can be abused. "Everyone in a light or medium suicide and drop in your Timber Wolf. Ok now push!" Any thought to somehow maintaining 3/3/3/3?

stuff


Pointless and stupid. Fight with your Light till death, then drop your TW. Why give the enemy free dead mechs?

P.S. Oops. Sorry. Yes, you Attackers suicide, and lots. It is a very good idea. ;)

#164 Zyllos

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:48 AM

I hope the Unit/Faction/Force/Merc/House/Clan thing gets changed up.

I understand that PGI is afraid that if FRR and Mercs/Lone Wolves can only defend FRR space, that if a LOT of players attack FRR at the same time, then there isn't enough population to defend all the attacks.

But I think that is a risk you have to allow to maintain some semblance of your actually attacking FRR space, not some random planet in FRR space with random Factions defending it. This should be both for Invasion and Border planets.

If there is a lot of problems, then something can be done about it later.

Edited by Zyllos, 25 September 2014 - 10:50 AM.


#165 Almond Brown

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:49 AM

View PostWieland, on 25 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Lets take these numbers and look at it from different timezones.(there might be light discrepancys due to summertime or not), i also changed the order of the combat phases for better viewing
Central Europe
8PM-10PM, Midnight-2AM, 3AM-5AM

British Isles and Portugal
7PM-9PM, 23PM-1AM, 2AM-4AM

Eastern Europe
9PM-11PM, 1AM-3AM, 4AM-6AM

European part of Russia
10PM-12PM, 2AM-4AM, 5AM-7AM

Eastern Australia
5AM-7AM, 9AM-11AM, 12PM-2PM

US East
2PM-4PM, 6PM-8PM, 9PM-11PM

US West
11AM-1PM, 3PM-5PM, 6-8PM

For me personally it would be Central Europe.
I know the numbers are not final, but
Only 2 hours of CW? Something i have waited so long for? Heavily disapointing.
You will not keep players with those numbers.



Just for giggles. Here is what you call 2 hours. Say I am US East. It is a Thursday, and I have a job. I can play from 5-8pm, and on a weekend, I could play 11am- 8pm. Plenty time, hell if the Beer holds up, I could switch to US West time for additional play.

Where does this whole notion of "ONLY a 2 hour play window" come from? Sleep or play... Same as now.

#166 Kraven Kor

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:49 AM

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.

*sniffle*

Dammit... ;)

#167 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:52 AM

View PostAlmond Brown, on 25 September 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

So you want to initiate an Attack with a lance and hope what? 3 other Lances from your Unit get queued to make the 12, or you want the Lance and any 8 fillers...?

TS3; no hoping required.

Quote

Not sure why a small attack starter (Lance) would be seen as better than an all unit based 12 man. Surely drop costs, initially, won't be overly exorbitant.

Maybe, maybe not. Question is -- Is the increased cost worth the risk of a potential mis-sync?

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 25 September 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#168 Sprouticus

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:03 AM

View PostTolkien, on 25 September 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

RE: Unit coffers:



I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you are saying that the cost per drop (12 mechs) will increase linearly with the size of the unit.

Paul, please consider that as the size of the unit increases the number of drops per unit time also increases linearly.

In effect if you make larger units pay more per drop, you are charging the individual member of the unit exponentially more for each additional member.

Is this intentional to gimp larger units? If so, you should be aware that players are more than capable of just making two sub-groups that cooperate 100% rather than pay your tax - especially since anyone can bid on a defense.



Or just have a casual unit and a comp unit. And do a gkick of anyone who is not online that night.

Here is a quesiton though:

I am unit a unit that is FS. I quit that unit and join a unit that is DC. Can I not srop with them until the next season starts?

#169 Mr Blonde

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:10 AM

Dropship mode sounds like the old game Paranoia...you die and the next you comes online. Send in the Clones! (I like the idea, but the comparison amuses me). Damn the AdvisoBot, full speed ahead!

#170 Jman5

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:20 AM

View PostZyllos, on 25 September 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:


It doesn't.

All drops are on a FIFO basis.

That could potentially ruin Community Warfare. Despite what many people think, Elo does play a large role in funneling players into adequately competitive matches. Without it, will not be very fun for people outside those top dozen or so competitive teams. I worry that people will simply give up on Community warfare if that becomes the case.

#171 L Y N X

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:36 AM

View PostJman5, on 25 September 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

That could potentially ruin Community Warfare. Despite what many people think, Elo does play a large role in funneling players into adequately competitive matches. Without it, will not be very fun for people outside those top dozen or so competitive teams. I worry that people will simply give up on Community warfare if that becomes the case.


Jman, let us see what happens first before worrying. I know from my unit, which is roughly half casual players and half competitive that the casuals as a group have almost no interest in CW. The competitive folks do. One thing that competition does is level the playing field. The less skilled competitive players improve faster than the more skilled competitive players. When you play someone in tennis the weaker player gets more improvement usually out of the matches and the more skilled gets less improvement, maybe only maintaining their prowess, maybe not even that.

What bums me out is this change in direction for the Merc units. I am trying to understand the extent of the changes so that our unit can make some tough choices and move ahead.

Edited by 7ynx, 25 September 2014 - 11:37 AM.


#172 Revis Volek

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:45 AM

The only thing i saw that i didn't like was the Peak time for EST....my unit doesnt even start gather in comms until 8pm and that's when the peak time stops for us? So we can no longer fight for planets after that time?

Makes CW pretty pointless if thats the case and i can only play it for 2 hours a day which i am unavailable for most the time.....i hope i read that wrong.

#173 Nightcrept

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:47 AM

I have only one real question and it's probably due to me not being around for awhile.

When exactly are we getting cw?

I really don't care if I have to sit at my computer wearing a fez, a giant diaper, nipple rings and sucking my toes so long as i finally get to play cw.

#174 Scratx

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:49 AM

Good stuff, Paul. However, it does raise me a few questions.

First of all, if the CW matches are going to last a lot longer, "Pilot Ejection" should probably be allowed in CW matches. The problem can be seen rather easily by just thinking about what an Atlas D-DC with both side torsos blown off can do in battle. (hint: Pretty much nothing)

The smart clanners would simply choose not to finish him off and effectively eliminate for the rest of the match one of the Spheroid's team's members, and all his respawn mechs. Bonus if they ALSO leg him so he doesn't run off to out of bounds anytime fast.

So... empowering the players in a CW match to self-destroy (and award kill to whomever did the most damage? ) in order to have access to their other mechs is a better idea than not, in my opinion. Mind, I don't think on standard matches this option should be given. But CW matches, that take so long and have respawns available? Forcing the player to be alive in a crippled and useless mech is exactly the reason why mechs were allowed to keep walking upright when they are legged!

This also brings up another question. What about every mech that is heavily or entirely dependent on ammunition? Will there be points where you can reload? In matches this long, ammo WILL be a concern, and we don't want CW to become LaserWarrior Online. Ejection can actually help there as once you run out of ammo, assuming you can't reload, you can always just eject and bring the next mech.

Please note I am not asking for repair pads. I don't think repairs belong there. But rearming is probably necessary to help keep ballistics and missiles viable in CW matches. Again, because they have the potential to take a long time. I don't want to say RIP CN9-AH or CPLT-A1... (hint : neither have energy hardpoints)

These are, off-hand, my biggest concerns right now. I want diversity on the CW battlefield, not LaserWarrior Online. I'm afraid ammo-reliant mechs will go the way of the dodo. Likewise, there's borderline griefing scenarios (which are still legitimate play, mind) like the one I pointed out if people can't actually act on "Yeah, my mech is now useless, I want to ditch this one and get a new one in", so letting them actually do it would help...

#175 Juvat

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:50 AM

View PostBront, on 25 September 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

2 comments on this.

1) It was stated that at the moment they were working with Faction clans to get the system up and running to start with. This is all still design phase stuff, so that could change, and they want to allow for merc units, but they need the faction infrastructure in place first. This doesn't mean your merc unit will never be able to be mercs, just that they'll have to allign at the moment.

2) Because of where the Clans are coming in, not every faction can defend against the clans normally. So some factions may miss out on the ability to defend the IS from the Clan invasioin. Since that's part of the fun, the idea is to let anyone help. This has the strange side effect of allowing house units pick and choose which areas they defend, so Steiner may not help Kurita defend and vice versa. I find that adds more depth. Liao may decide to simply take over the IS and ignore the clans till their boarders touch for example.

It's a work in progress. I'd avoid being outraged on anything till we get something working, and then give them time to spruce it up.

As for your comments here is my responses to them:
1.) the Faction point I made had nothing to do with countering Clan invasions. The specific example they gave was House Davion invading a Kurita world and everyone being allowed to assist in defense. I agree that anyone from the IS should be able to fight off the Clans but when it comes to the "Border fights" it should be totally Faction-based (i.e. Davion vs. Kurita in this instance) with Mercs and Lone Wolves being allowed to supplement their forces.

2.) I have been involved with MWO for over 2 1/2 years now and have invested substantially in this game. As such I have every right as you do to voice my opinion about the progress of the game. Telling me to be patient is like preaching to the choir as I have been very patient with them. However, as an investor (which anyone who has spent money on this game is) I have the right to tell them when they are going wrong and to (hopefully) get them to correct course. So I will continue to voice my feelings about the direction of a game I have committed time and resources to of my own and I encourage others to continue to do the same.

#176 Jacob Side

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:52 AM

Nightcrept

That's a disturbing image

Edited by Jacob Side, 25 September 2014 - 11:52 AM.


#177 Heffey

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:52 AM

Glad you're working this all out but when will any of this be added to the game? Has any of this entered a phase that you can share of video example of this working with us?

#178 Syrkres

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:52 AM

Concerns with contracts/battles.

As you have explained it, once the "contested" time starts, you need to form a 12man team to attack, once that team is "made" then an ALERT to defend goes out. The attack team has to wait around till the defending team is made.

Not lets consider Cappellen Confederation and Free Worlds League have a 4 planets in contention, the FWL forms a 12man, and then waits..... for CC to form a 12man, but there isn't enough players.... they wait, wait, wait.....


It would make sense that Merc Units can fill these spots, but still the FWL team may end up waiting for some time. At what point does a timeout occur?

Even now I see wait times of several mins for groups. With the restriction of Factions/Planets/Contracts this will compound the issue even more.

Proposal:
Since you are having standard times for contested areas, you could eliminate the "unique" queues. For example along the Kurita Border you have planets in contention, then along the CC and FWL border you have planets in contention. Once the timer starts both sides (defending and attack) get notice. Each faction would get the appropriate message, so if Clans are attacking Kurita planet, and FWL is attacking CC planet, then an attack message would go out to the Clans and FWL with the appropriate planet that is being assaulted. Also a defend message is sent to Kurita and CC for their defending planets.

An team from clans form up 8man group, while FWL forms up a 2x2man groups, which forms an "attacking" 12man team, while Kurita has 2x4man groups and CC has 4man group and 2x2man groups form up, the MM picking first come first server form up a 12man defending team. Then a battle ensues, the attacking team wins (thus gaining X tokens) Both Clans gain the token for taking the Kurita planet, and FWL gains tokens to take the CC planet. Repeat...

This would reduce the number of unique 12man teams you need to create, the above if done in the current PGI implementation would require 4x12man teams, whereas the above proposal would only require 2x12man teams. One side still wins and one side still loses, it's results just effect 2 planets instead of 1.

Also you could further enhance this, lets say you have your Clan 4man team, your FWL 4man team, and another FWL 4man team, but attacking a different border planet (lets say between FWL and LC - 2 different borders even). The 3x4man teams form up a 12man attacking team, and when resolved (win or loss) it effects 3 different planets instead of 2 (or even 1).

This makes match making much easier as you are only having to form an Attacking queue and a defending queue.

From a "role player" point of view, the other "team mates" are Mercs (hired guns).

This would allow for much easier integration of Lonewolves/Mercs as they would again pick defending (or attacking) contract and be grouped up with the apporpriate teams.

Also as suggested many times before, if one side is lacking players, lets say defending side, you can "incrementally" increase the contract to attract more merc units to that side. So initially a contract starts at 2mil C-Bills to attack defend. 15 mins into the "contested" time the system sees that defending teams are lacking players, while the attacking teams have 12man teams waiting, it would up the contract for the defending to 2.5mil C-Bills hopefully attracking more players. This would increase as one side continues to see a lopsided number of players. Once enough players sign up for a contract it would automatically start to reduce the contract prices to avoid too many players jumping on.

Edited by Syrkres, 25 September 2014 - 12:12 PM.


#179 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:57 AM

View PostSyrkres, on 25 September 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Concerns with contracts/battles.

As you have explained it, once the "contested" time starts, you need to form a 12man team to attack, once that team is "made" then an ALERT to defend goes out. The attack team has to wait around till the defending team is made.

Not lets consider Cappellen Confederation and Free Worlds League have a 4 planets in contention, the FWL forms a 12man, and then waits..... for CC to form a 12man, but there isn't enough players.... they wait, wait, wait.....


It would make sense that Merc Units can fill these spots, but still the FWL team may end up waiting for some time. At what point does a timeout occur?

Even now I see wait times of several mins for groups. With the restriction of Factions/Planets/Contracts this will compound the issue even more.

Lets not assume. I dont think the wait times will be anything like that. I am sure plenty of people are going to be participating at all times. we have to wait and see.

#180 kingalbertII

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:59 AM

what if faction could hire merc units do to fighting in their name for a while? so if say, thughs4less merc corps gets hired by steiner, they will count as being steiner players for lets say 2 weeks





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