78 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Did you Team Kill? Yes.


Look, I've teamkilled with Streaks that arced into a guy's back. It happens.


However, you are looking for absolution, which means you feel guilty about it or think you should feel guilty about it and are trying to push that guilt away onto someone else. That right there is telling. You want to blame him so you don't have to think, "Was there something I could have done differently?" Your best bet is to not worry about who is to blame, assume you probably had a better view of the situation than he did so maybe you might have 1% more blame than you would have otherwise, and move on without nitpicking who was in the wrong.

Just try not to shoot me in the back.

[Dolph Hoskins]

It is pretty much a question of did the other player put themselves in a bad spot?, or did you put them in a bad spot?

That's if you want to assign fault to it. With a herd of players with little to no sense of formation, the people in front need to pay attention to the heavy loadouts behind them and what the enemy is doing in front of them.

Sometimes the mech in front puts them self in a bad spot by over extending, trying to be a bad ass, or too much lateral movement. Other times the enemy will force a bad position on them, in that case I say well played to the enemy.

[Hades Trooper]

UnsafePilot, on 25 September 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

If you had no control over it happening then why start a thread asking who was at fault?

This still sounds more like you thought you were teaching the person a lesson and wanted to come here to get some confirmation that it was a good thing to do.

Well half and half.

i known it wasn';t my fault, but i thought since it seems to happen a lot more now since the clans have been released perhaps the community should have a discussion on it and see how as a community we see examples of this.

I woulnd';t say i'm trying to teach them a lesson but perhaps if the person in question who ranted and rage quit before i could even say sorry does get on the forums, they might see that others would also agree there are lessons we can all learn from this.

I know in a unit i once belonged we had a rule the returning mechs have right of way and you pass on the left of each other ie so both you passing each other right shoulders as you come head to head.

i know that rule was good as this was when knock downs where in effect and it mattered.

Mercules, on 25 September 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

Did you Team Kill? Yes.


Look, I've teamkilled with Streaks that arced into a guy's back. It happens.


However, you are looking for absolution, which means you feel guilty about it or think you should feel guilty about it and are trying to push that guilt away onto someone else. That right there is telling. You want to blame him so you don't have to think, "Was there something I could have done differently?" Your best bet is to not worry about who is to blame, assume you probably had a better view of the situation than he did so maybe you might have 1% more blame than you would have otherwise, and move on without nitpicking who was in the wrong.

Just try not to shoot me in the back.

i think you kinda right, i don't think it was at fault and having some sort of absolution would make me feel better knowing it's not just my friends who've said not to worry.

[Wintersdark]

[redacted]Exactly. I'll pull my beams off target as soon as I can, and how much warning I had to the friendly entering my LOF will determine how much he eats (I'm old, and while competent my reflexes aren't what they once where).

People moving past throughy LOF? Its mildly annoying, but fine. I try not to hit them, they assume the risk in doing that that I may accidentally wing them.

Its important that players do their best to avoid hurting friendlies, even when the friendly is being an idiot. Deciding to blast them with an extra alpha "to teach them" usually won't teach them - they either were likely unaware of what was going on (and ad such will assume its hostile fire or what have you) or did it deliberately and isnt going to learn anything anyways... But by further damaging them, you're just ruining your own abalative armor.

With that said, I'll admit that I've had a couple of instances of getting [redacted] who insists on moving in front of me and stopping... Or suddenly backing into me
That drives me freaking nuts. So.. I may have... Nudged.. The odd mech now and again. And maybe once team killed someone for it.

But we should all strive to keep our temper and do our best to avoid damage to friendlies, regardless of who is "at fault"

Edited by Egomane, 25 September 2014 - 10:00 AM.
responding to removed content and insults

[Christof Romulus]

Rule 1 of Mechwarrior Online:
Identify what a Dire Wolf looks like.

Rule 2 of Mechwarrior Online:
Do NOT stand in front of a Dire Wolf, regardless of whether it is allied or enemy.

Rule 3 of Mechwarrior Online:
Complain on forums.

[Greenjulius]

I think a lot of team kills happen when people try to kill steal. They notice an enemy about to die, smell blood and want a piece, or the whole kill. They just shoot at the target and don't care what's in the way. I've been killed at least a few times, or nearly killed by friendlies that really wanted that kill. I think people just need to accept that other players will get kills, and they need to stop playing like selfish children.

Edited by Greenjulius, 25 September 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

CygnusX7, on 25 September 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

It happens.. Sorry from both sides of the fence.

Yes. When I cross your stream its on me, if you're chasing the rabbit across my armor its yours. In both instances it's the heat of battle and frankly it happens.

[Kain Demos]

Killn, on 25 September 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

The bunched up PUG tactics of this game lead to a lot of this. A good example is everyone trying to go into the same entrance to Mordor.

And before you say "don't PUG", a good game needs game mechanics to encourage good tactics and whether you like it or not PUGs are important to the health of the game. No one likes to mention tanks, but their PUGs spread out and when they don't they pay. (I know not the same thing exactly, with the massive firepower mechs bring but....)

Not sure what the best answer is, I just know something needs to be added to discourage the current "deathball" tactic we have now. That being said I love this game and the lore and all the stompy robot goodness yee yee.

It's, true, some of us have no choice but to "PUG". I have a friend that plays but:

1. I don't want to only be able to play when he is on
2. We tried group queue one weekend. It was terrible because we were always on a team full of 2-4 man groups going up against a 12 man. We only won once and it was because we were put with a 10 man. We get more XP/c bills going it alone.

Now, back to the friendly fire thing. This **** is getting old. Everyone has done it by accident (being zoomed in or maybe the IFF glitch which has happened to me personally where I utterly decimated a team mate by mistake) but it happens way too often.

A lot of times if I'm in my Dire Wolf trying to line up a big shot (dual gauss/ppc or my 8 laser/dual gauss death ray) right when someone is coming into the clear a medium will step right in front of me to fire their 4 MLs (outside their optimal range) which prevents me from shooting as my alpha from behind would likely kill them.

However, this courtesy and awareness is seldom returned. Last night I don't know what was up with the MM; I guess I kept getting put on sorry ass teams full of cowards. I was getting continual torso damage from people trying to use me as cover and shooting me in the back by mistake because they didn't know where both of their arms were. Another time on Forest Colony there were guys emerging from the cave. Look, I'm in a DIRE WOLF so enemies in a choke point are a good thing for me. Not only that, I CAN NOT run away and if I even try I would just get ***** from behind before I even move 50m. Well this guy in front of me was in such a hurry to flee he turns around and just runs right into me. Face to face. I can't fire at the guys emerging from the cave so I can't possibly cause them to stall or back pedal (as will often be the case if the first thing they see is a Dire Wolf firing dual gauss and 8 lasers especially fi the first guy to emerge is just instagibbed) and even worse, this guy wants ME to back pedal or something and just starts shooting me until he finally frees himself of the weird collision/clipping thing that happens when you rub someone. Well by this time (we were probably face to face for 6-8 seconds) 4 guys had emerged from the cave and we were done since he wasn't the only one that just decided to run for his life at the first sight of the enemy.

So irritating.

Edited by Kain Thul, 25 September 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[Metus regem]

I guess it comes down to a few things, if I cross your path, to get out of the line of fire of something like a Dire Wolf, or move to position myself better, to provide support, or you know do something like get the pesky little medium or light that is trying to flank the Dire Wolf, I'll accept getting a little bit of damage from my team mate.

If I'm in my Dual Gauss War Hawk, then I'll hold my shots when someone cross in front of me, 'cause well I try to be classy that way, and I know that 30 points in the back is going to HURT! Not everyone has the same level of situational awareness, a lot of people get tunnel vision when they see a red target.

But what I hate above all else, is the test firing at the start of a match, I test my energy weapons, I'll admit it, but I'll be sure to point at the ground at my feet when I do it, not directly ahead of me! My poor Adder Prime (I) lost her right torso that way, 'cause some numb nuts in a Dakka Wolf wanted to test his weapons at the start of the match...

[Mystere]

Never, ever cross into anyone's line of fire, friend or foe.

[Squally160]

Dakka wolf say: "dont be dumb, quad ac10 chain firing will not stop if you step into the line of fire"

[Egomane]

Just as I said in the original thread:
If you have to use insults to adress other players you are violating the code of conduct and you invalidate your argument. If you believe you are better then others, you should act classy or you really are not.

I cleaned up some posts!

Edit: Also removed a post promoting griefing.

Edited by Egomane, 25 September 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Hardin4188]

The problem is a lot of the maps have "corridors" and being in a big open area gives you lrm death. So players bunch up and typical combat tactics are to torso twist and use circling tactics. Well sometimes this naturally causes mechs closest to the enemy to sometimes get hit by friendly fire. Pay attention to who is where and paint the dirt when you have to. Maybe try attacking a different target if you can. Clanners prefer 1 on 1 combat anyway and 12 vs 1 is just molestation anyway.

Edited by Hardin4188, 25 September 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Sadist Cain]

Killn, on 25 September 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

The bunched up PUG tactics of this game lead to a lot of this. A good example is everyone trying to go into the same entrance to Mordor.

And before you say "don't PUG", a good game needs game mechanics to encourage good tactics and whether you like it or not PUGs are important to the health of the game. No one likes to mention tanks, but their PUGs spread out and when they don't they pay. (I know not the same thing exactly, with the massive firepower mechs bring but....)

Not sure what the best answer is, I just know something needs to be added to discourage the current "deathball" tactic we have now. That being said I love this game and the lore and all the stompy robot goodness yee yee.

This man right here, he gets it

There's nothing in this game that helps out the small group/PUG tactics. All you get is a hot mess and the misconception that murderball always wins so any idea of supporting fire and moving is completely lost in favour of those wailing "GROUP UP ERMAGWD" when you're spawned A KM away.

Lance based tactics are non existent, which is sad, seeing as the game would be so much better with them.

Edited by Sadist Cain, 25 September 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Xyroc]

if you walk through a stream of fire it is your fault. Should the DPS mech stop shooting while your in front well yes but unfortunatly clan ACs are in steams and he cannot stop firing once it started.

Edited by Beliall, 25 September 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Hardin4188]

Sadist Cain, on 25 September 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

This man right here, he gets it

There's nothing in this game that helps out the small group/PUG tactics. All you get is a hot mess and the misconception that murderball always wins so any idea of supporting fire and moving is completely lost in favour of those wailing "GROUP UP ERMAGWD" when you're spawned A KM away.

Lance based tactics are non existent, which is sad, seeing as the game would be so much better with them.

This is why I don't play the skirmish game mode anymore. Because bunching up is especially egregious in this mode. There is no clear reason to not bunch up so two large masses of mechs converge on each other.

[Metus regem]

Hardin4188, on 25 September 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

This is why I don't play the skirmish game mode anymore. Because bunching up is especially egregious in this mode. There is no clear reason to not bunch up so two large masses of mechs converge on each other.

The downside is, almost all matches become a case of murder balls, well in OG PUGlife anyways...the amount of times I've seen conquest and assault end in actual captures, I can count on 1 hand.

[Hardin4188]

Metus regem, on 25 September 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

The downside is, almost all matches become a case of murder balls, well in OG PUGlife anyways...the amount of times I've seen conquest and assault end in actual captures, I can count on 1 hand.

There are two major reasons for this. Lack of communication, especially voice chat because it's difficult to text while in combat. And fear that because the enemy team is probably traveling in a blob if you try to split up you will be picked off individually. Unfortunately the lack of voice chat is an understandable problem in pugs across gaming(no one wants to listen to 14 year olds screaming and blabbering), but the second issue can be corrected by simple instructions and coordination at the beginning of the match.

Edited by Hardin4188, 25 September 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Metus regem]

Hardin4188, on 25 September 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

There are two major reasons for this. Lack of communication, especially voice chat because it's difficult to text while in combat. And fear that because the enemy team is probably traveling in a blob if you try to split up you will be picked off individually. Unfortunately the lack of voice chat is an understandable problem in pugs across gaming(no one wants to listen to 14 year olds screaming and blabbering), but the second issue can be corrected by simple instructions and coordination at the beginning of the match.

yup, no argument from me in that regard. It's also hard as hell to be a team player in PUG land... too much rambo-e-peen-stroking....

[Kain Demos]

Metus regem, on 25 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

yup, no argument from me in that regard. It's also hard as hell to be a team player in PUG land... too much rambo-e-peen-stroking....

Some matches you can type all you want and no one will respond at all and everyone just does their own thing....so annoying.

I remember specifically a match on Alpine where I successfully lobbied to keep the team from charging up the mountain and instead head to F9/F10 and camp it which if done correctly I've NEVER seen lose. Well after we get there 1/2 the team ran down hill and around the corner near H9 and just committed suicide without saying a word.

I've actually had back to back very frustrating nights now where I probably have more losses than wins and am just even in k/d. That's the PUGlife though I suppose. Sometimes you get to be the bug and other times you are the windshield.

Hardin4188, on 25 September 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

There are two major reasons for this. Lack of communication, especially voice chat because it's difficult to text while in combat. And fear that because the enemy team is probably traveling in a blob if you try to split up you will be picked off individually. Unfortunately the lack of voice chat is an understandable problem in pugs across gaming(no one wants to listen to 14 year olds screaming and blabbering), but the second issue can be corrected by simple instructions and coordination at the beginning of the match.

I'm sure I come off as annoying to some people as I never, ever am silent at the beginning of a match. I try to get a discussion going on strategy every time no matter what. The responses run the entire gamut of possibilities:

1. The dreaded silence, nothing
2. Agreement with proposed plan
3. Disagreement with proposed plan; alternate plan suggested and accepted. May be followed by all, some or none
4. Stupid, trolling type comments "my strategy is to shoot them before they shoot me" "this is war, no planning necessary" etc etc. You usually know right away this is going to be a loss.