184 replies to this topic

[DEMAX51]

King Curt, on 25 September 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

It's probably easier to have one of each chassis limit. It will be a pain to herd the cats into agreeing on Mech weights. However, if the cats can be herded I think a tonnage limit would be preferable. But remember, we're dealing with flippin' cats!

We're not talking about team tonnage limits, but a tonnage limit for each individual player's dropship. So there'd be no "herding" whatsoever, because each individual player would get to choose how they spent their tonnage independently of one another.

Edited by DEMAX51, 25 September 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[Eddrick]

Kushko, on 25 September 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

CONS:
cant really think of any...can you?

It gimps the person that likes Light/Medium Mechs. You don't gain anything by going under the Tonnage Limit. Same goes for BV with a max limit of 4 Mechs. You don't gain anything by going under the limit.

[1ShotPaddy]

Kushko, on 25 September 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

CONS:
cant really think of any...can you?

I've spent two years specializing as a skirmisher with a Centurion that has been tweaked to the high heavens to fit that role. I don't want to, nor am I able to, competently fulfill any other role on the battlefield.

The model you suggest would mean I'd have to buy 3 more CN9-Ds and fit them out exactly the same.

Expensive, time-consuming and redundant. And I've still got 50 tons left over in your 250 ton scheme.

I'm not convinced by this DropShip idea at all.

[Hospy]

Kushko, on 25 September 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

So as an example: 250tons 4 mechs max.

PORS:
-something to use some of the 3 mechs you had to buy to master 1 for
-more choice in what you bring
-not forced in to a weight class you dislike to pilot (even if you actually know how to)
-easy on the go balance between IS and Clans by adding or removing weight of the maximum tonnage per side
-gives the skinny (lighter) brothers and sisters of each weight class more weight (pun intended )

CONS:
cant really think of any...can you?

Given that 265 would be the max and you could run a 100, 75, 55, 20 drop, that's not very restrictive at all.

Flyby215, on 25 September 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Make it 1-1-1-1 AND a 235 limit.

With 1-1-1-1 all you'll see is Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, Stormcrow, Ember. Why not, right?

At 235 and 1-1-1-1 you end up having to be selective; bring a DW and TW you'll be forced to bring in the Cicada and Locust to balance out... Or you can mix it up quite nicely with a Stalker, Hellbringer, Stormcrow, Jenner.

Still under the limit? C-Bill bonus.

Prevents people from bringing the best of 1-1-1-1, keeps people from bringing 3 TimberWolves and a 'quit' mech, and helps maintain variety on the battlefield.

I like this version most so far.

[DEMAX51]

1ShotPaddy, on 25 September 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I've spent two years specializing as a skirmisher with a Centurion that has been tweaked to the high heavens to fit that role. I don't want to, nor am I able to, competently fulfill any other role on the battlefield.

The model you suggest would mean I'd have to buy 3 more CN9-Ds and fit them out exactly the same.

Expensive, time-consuming and redundant. And I've still got 50 tons left over in your 250 ton scheme.

I'm not convinced by this DropShip idea at all.

They could always give a c-bill bonus to players who don't use all of their allotted tonnage.

[Torgun]

I don't get why PGI hate the lighter mechs in each weightclass. As long as there is no tonnage limits, it's always go with the biggest in each weightclass that would generally be best. It's how it works with the current matchmaker and it's going to be so with CW too, making so many mechs pointless to use.

[Hobo Dan]

Eddrick, on 25 September 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

It gimps the person that likes Light/Medium Mechs. You don't gain anything by going under the Tonnage Limit. Same goes for BV with a max limit of 4 Mechs. You don't gain anything by going under the limit.

That's why, in my opinion, no limit on the number of mechs is most fair. 200 tons, bring what you want. Period. Though most of the suggestions here are better than 1/1/1/1.

Edited by Hobo Dan, 25 September 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[1453 R]

The Problem:

The "Tonnage limits, no class restrictions" only really works for one-offs. Sure, a team that has one guy stubbornly piloting four Commandos because "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" can probably hack it just fine...but what happens when the matchmaking system has to put seven different "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" guys together on one squad?

You end up with a team several hundred tons below the general region where it would be, and the handful of dudes who brought the big armor are thrust into the unpleasant position of having to carry thirty Commandos while the enemy team is coming at them with a far more balanced loadout. Those bare handful of heavies/assaults those poor five guys managed to bring in are going to ablate away in no time, and then the enemy team will just roll through the horde of Commandos without any real issues.

This is, of course, to say nothing at all of the groups who'll find a way to drop with fifty ECM Trollspiders and grief an entire half-hour CW match just because they're bassholes.

While a great idea on the surface, it's just not tenable when applied to the whole of a team, or to jackhole griefer units more concerned with making their foes hate MWO than with winning their matches or advancing their faction's territory.

Edited by 1453 R, 25 September 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[1ShotPaddy]

DEMAX51, on 25 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

They could always give a c-bill bonus to players who don't use all of their allotted tonnage.

Seems reasonable compensation.

However I think I care more about winning a planetary system, besting my opponents and having fun than earning virtual currency (which I don't necessarily need at this point)

I can't get behind this respawn idea, and would much prefer a Best out of 3 Rounds system that allows us to switch mechs if we so wish between rounds, with a team-wide tonnage limit. (not sure about this)

And this, definately this,

Quote

[color=#959595]The "Tonnage limits, no class restrictions" only really works for one-offs. Sure, a team that has [/color]one[color=#959595] guy stubbornly piloting four Commandos because "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" can probably hack it just fine...but what happens when the matchmaking system has to put seven different "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" guys together on one squad?[/color]

Edited by 1ShotPaddy, 25 September 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Kassatsu]

I'd also prefer a tonnage limit instead of forcing one from each weight class.

The fact a Quickdraw gets matched against a Timberwolf on the enemy team in the regular matchmaker should be more than enough of an argument already, unless they do something to drastically nerf *only* the Timberwolf and buff the massive underperformers on the IS side. Same can be said about almost any assault that isn't a Victor, Atlas or Dire Wolf. A few have some niche roles and/or fun builds, but that's it.

[MauttyKoray]

Jake Hendricks, on 25 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Although being potentially killed 10 times in one match might play havoc with your K/D stats though

People who care about the K/D stats are part of this game's problem in the first place.

I'm actually in favor of keeping the 4 mech limit, be it with the 1's rule or the tonnage limit (230-250 seems about right).

[Fut]

1453 R, on 25 September 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

The "Tonnage limits, no class restrictions" only really works for one-offs. Sure, a team that has one guy stubbornly piloting four Commandos because "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" can probably hack it just fine...but what happens when the matchmaking system has to put seven different "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" guys together on one squad?

Isn't the plan for a 4 Light/ 4 Med / 4 Heavy / 4 Assault rule for (IS) teams in CW? Kind of how it works in the Group-Q already? As soon as there's a 5th of any weight class, it turns red and the team isn't eligible to drop. They must talk it out and sort out what Mechs they'll be using.

The same could be applied to CW. If one person comes in with 4 Lights, and other people have Lights, it'll be up to the team to sort out who will be changing what they're bringing.

Edit:

I'm assuming the same will work once somebody dies and is trying to respawn in a new Mech.
If there are 4 Lights on the field already, a person would have to wait until one died to drop another Light into combat.

Edited by Fut, 25 September 2014 - 11:45 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

1453 R, on 25 September 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

The Problem:

The "Tonnage limits, no class restrictions" only really works for one-offs. Sure, a team that has one guy stubbornly piloting four Commandos because "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" can probably hack it just fine...but what happens when the matchmaking system has to put seven different "I'm a light 'Mech expert!" guys together on one squad?

You end up with a team several hundred tons below the general region where it would be, and the handful of dudes who brought the big armor are thrust into the unpleasant position of having to carry thirty Commandos while the enemy team is coming at them with a far more balanced loadout. Those bare handful of heavies/assaults those poor five guys managed to bring in are going to ablate away in no time, and then the enemy team will just roll through the horde of Commandos without any real issues.

This is, of course, to say nothing at all of the groups who'll find a way to drop with fifty ECM Trollspiders and grief an entire half-hour CW match just because they're bassholes.

While a great idea on the surface, it's just not tenable when applied to the whole of a team, or to jackhole griefer units more concerned with making their foes hate MWO than with winning their matches or advancing their faction's territory.

This is clearly an issue that needs to be considered. But also remember that the CW Attack/Defend mode will be objective based. An all ECM Spider troll team, while annoying, won’t be nearly as difficult to deal with in this mode as it would be in Skirmish because you can always just play the objective. At some point, the balanced team will be knocking down the gates of the base and the Spiders will have to come out and play or lose the match.

[TygerLily]

I like 240 tons and requires 4 Mechs.

Various incarnations:

100 + 100 + 20 + 20 (Bring two Atlases, be prepared for some late game pain, lol)

100 + 70 + 45 + 35

70 + 70 + 55 + 45

100 + 80 + 30 + 30

85 + 85+ 35 + 35

65 + 65 + 65+ 45 (This would be fun!)

90 + 50 + 50 + 50

Under tonnage allowed ?
55 + 55 + 55 + 55 = 220...

Edited by TygerLily, 25 September 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Flyby215, on 25 September 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Make it 1-1-1-1 AND a 235 limit.

With 1-1-1-1 all you'll see is Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, Stormcrow, Ember. Why not, right?

At 235 and 1-1-1-1 you end up having to be selective; bring a DW and TW you'll be forced to bring in the Cicada and Locust to balance out... Or you can mix it up quite nicely with a Stalker, Hellbringer, Stormcrow, Jenner.

Still under the limit? C-Bill bonus.

Prevents people from bringing the best of 1-1-1-1, keeps people from bringing 3 TimberWolves and a 'quit' mech, and helps maintain variety on the battlefield.

Hands down the best idea.

Only tonnage limits cater to the light mech only pilots which is absurd. You either get on board with allowing someone to bring 4 TWs or you compromise.

You can't use the argument of "Well I only pilot THIS mech and I don't use any others so 1/1/1/1 doesn't work for me BUT I don't want other people to play THAT mech only because I think it's OP"


1/1/1/1 with tonnage limit is amazing idea.

[DEMAX51]

TygerLily, on 25 September 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I like 240 tons and requires 4 Mechs.

Various incarnations:

100 + 100 + 20 + 20 (Bring two Atlases, be prepared for some late game pain, lol)

100 + 70 + 45 + 35

70 + 70 + 55 + 45

100 + 80 + 30 + 30

85 + 85+ 35 + 35

65 + 65 + 65+ 45 (This would be fun!)

90 + 50 + 50 + 50

Under tonnage allowed ?
55 + 55 + 55 + 50 = 220...

Yup. I really feel like 240 is the magic number.

[DEMAX51]

shad0w4life, on 25 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Hands down the best idea.

Only tonnage limits cater to the light mech only pilots which is absurd. You either get on board with allowing someone to bring 4 TWs or you compromise.

You can't use the argument of "Well I only pilot THIS mech and I don't use any others so 1/1/1/1 doesn't work for me BUT I don't want other people to play THAT mech only because I think it's OP"


1/1/1/1 with tonnage limit is amazing idea.

I don't see how somebody bringing 4 Light 'Mechs compares to letting somebody bring 4 Timberwolves.

And I disagree that tonnage limits cater to the "light-mech only pilots." They cater to people who'd like to see a wider variety of 'Mechs in use, overall. And at 240 tons, you could still bring four 60 ton Heavies, just not 4 Timberwolves.

Edited by DEMAX51, 25 September 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[1ShotPaddy]

shad0w4life, on 25 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

You can't use the argument of "Well I only pilot THIS mech and I don't use any others so 1/1/1/1 doesn't work for me BUT I don't want other people to play THAT mech only because I think it's OP"

I don't see the problem with someone bringing four Timbers, as long as both teams are balanced overall.

Quote

[color=#959595] And at 240 tons, you could still bring four 60 ton Heavies, just not 4 Timberwolves. [/color]

Four dual AC 10 Jagermechs....

There will be losers and winners to this tonnage system. Fundamentally unbalanced.

Edited by 1ShotPaddy, 25 September 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

I'd think I'd rather go the tonnage route over 1/1/1/1 if the tonnage was set suitably low. Let's get some real value out of lighter mechs in classes.

[Rusty Nails]

Look there are 5110 tonnage limit threads.
This topic has been discussed to death.
PGI is not going to change the match maker.
Why don't we look for other solutions and options within the existing structure?