184 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

I think I'd vote for 1/1/1/1 AND a tonnage limit, 235 seems about right. Could be tweaked for clan vs IS balance if needed.

Rusty Nails, on 25 September 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Look there are 5110 tonnage limit threads.
This topic has been discussed to death.
PGI is not going to change the match maker.
Why don't we look for other solutions and options within the existing structure?

Two things: 1.The suggestion discussed here is for the yet to be implemented dropship system CW, not the matchmaker. 2.PGI has recently taken initiatives to communicate with the forum and listen to feedback. With those combined there should be more of a window for discussion.

Edited by Sjorpha, 25 September 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[keith]

Rusty Nails, on 25 September 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Look there are 5110 tonnage limit threads.
This topic has been discussed to death.
PGI is not going to change the match maker.
Why don't we look for other solutions and options within the existing structure?

this is about CW dropship mode. instead of 4 mechs 1 of each type. we are disscuing about having a tonnage based dropship mode

[Eddrick]

Rusty Nails, on 25 September 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Look there are 5110 tonnage limit threads.
This topic has been discussed to death.
PGI is not going to change the match maker.
Why don't we look for other solutions and options within the existing structure?

The only other and best option besides BV, R&R is to balance the Mechs themselves. If the Mechs were balanced, restrictions wouldn't be needed.

[Xtrekker]

Don't forget to include parts replacements (engines, etc.) in the dropship.

[1ShotPaddy]

Let me ask this.

If an Awesome pilot is forced to run a Centurion, Commando and Catapult.

And the Centurion pilot is forced to run an Awesome, Catapult and Commando.

Etc.

Why can't the Awesome pilot run 4 Awesomes, the Cent pilot 4 Cents?

There are still 4 Awesome's (Timber Wolves) either way.

Edited by 1ShotPaddy, 25 September 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Eddrick]

1ShotPaddy, on 25 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Let me ask this.

If an Awesome pilot is forced to run a Centurion, Commando and Catapult.

And the Centurion pilot is forced to run an Awesome, Catapult and Commando.

Etc.

Why can't the Awesome pilot run 4 Awesomes, the Cent pilot 4 Cents?

There are still 4 Awesome's (Timber Wolves) either way.

That would just change it into a Limited Respawn Mode. In that case. Why limit the Respawns at all? Not much would change if you lift the limit.

[Bhael Fire]

NO to the OP. The 1/1/1/1 limit ensures that each weight class is played.

Also, as it was pointed out, these extra 3 mechs are only there as supplemental reinforcements once your main mech is destroyed.

[DEMAX51]

1ShotPaddy, on 25 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Let me ask this.

If an Awesome pilot is forced to run a Centurion, Commando and Catapult.

And the Centurion pilot is forced to run an Awesome, Catapult and Commando.

Etc.

Why can't the Awesome pilot run 4 Awesomes, the Cent pilot 4 Cents?

There are still 4 Awesome's (Timber Wolves) either way.

If what you're saying is "limit teams to no more than 4 'Mechs in any weight class, and just let the teams figure it out themselves" that has some very big problems.

What happens when a team is made up of a few smaller groups, who aren't on comms together? It's going to take a VEERRRRRY long time for them to figure out who's taking what. And in some instances, it may not even be possible for those players to come to a consensus.

[Maxx Blue]

Don't forget to post your thoughts in the actuall feedback thread for the update Paul wrote!

That said, I would be willing to endorse pretty much ANY plan that didn't force me to take a light and an assault on every drop. Over the past couple years of playing MWO, I have come to accept that I really don't enjoy piloting lights and assaults. I really, really, REALLY don't want to be forced into spending half of my play time in mechs I don't enjoy playing. This makes 1-1-1-1 a big problem for me. I would like to participate in CW, but I'm not sure I will if 50% of the mechs I have to bring are stuff I don't want. I would be fine with tonnage limits, or tonnage plus max-number-of-mechs, or even a limit of no more than two of any weight class. I will support pretty much any idea that doesn't force me to take one of each weight class!

I don't care if the solution is perfect, but anything that lets me participate without asking me to drive mechs I don't have fun with would be a huge improvement in my eyes.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 25 September 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[Ozric]

I'm not a fan of 1/1/1/1 either, for a number of reason already stated in this thread, but I do understand why it makes sense for matchmaking queues.

Tonnage value seems like a much better way to do it, but with the original intent of the rules in mind there would have to be several restrictions to make it work.

Max tonnage value - 240 does seem like a good number, if 255 is the max tonnage you could bring with 1/1/1/1

Min tonnage value? - As much as it might be your own fault if you bring nothing but locusts, you also harm your faction in CW

Chassis/variant limits? - No more than one variant, or no more than two of a single weight class?

No underweight mechs - Without such a rule, exploitation flourishes

Always four mechs in the dropship - See above

[Bront]

stjobe, on 25 September 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Tonnage limits would simply mean that there'd be a lot of people dropping with three heavies and suiciding when their 20-tonner was up because "I only play [insert (usually heavy or assault) 'mech of choice here]".

Just learn to play one of each weight class and drop with those - or use the Champions that will be provided if you choose not to choose.

It's no big deal, you can play your single variant as much as you want in the non-CW queue.

The Suiciding would be discouraged by teammates due to it potentially costing them the drop, and when a share of 5,000,000 cbills is on the line, why would you suicide?

That said, for a tonnage limit to work, it means there would need to be a champion available at every tonnage weight in order to help sort out any potential weight issues. So if I drop in a Victor, a Cataphrat, and a Jager, I wouldn't need to own a Commando or Locust (I actually own both, but that's besides the point). If they want to limit it, they can always restrict the availability of all champions to CW drops only, so I may not be able to PUG with the Locust-3M(C), but I can drop with it if I need it in CW.

Personally, I'd probably end up dropping in 1 mech in each weight class, because I enjoy my just about all of them equally, but I think weight restrictions offer a larger variety, and offer some tactical choices and flexibility you don't get in a drop that's restricted otherwise.

- Just imagine, a coordinated 12 man starts off in 12 lights to make a quick charge and storm a gate to open it. As they drop, they switch to heavier mechs to bring more firepower. Meanwhile a defensive team could start heavy, dropping in heavier mechs to start, and then recovering in lighter mechs to rush to where engagements are. Dropship mode where you can always choose, and you're not limited to a single 1/1/1/1 opens up so many possibilities

The only thing I would recommend is maybe a tonnage minimum. (IE, no you can't bring only 4 Locusts). Could be low, say 120 tons, but it means that you at least have to bring either some heavier lights, or 3 really light mechs and something slightly heavier (3 Locusts and a Dragon)

[Khobai]

1/1/1/1 is terrible

it promotes using the best mech in each weight class. game will devolve into everyone using the same mechs.

drop weight limit is infinitely better.

IS = 240 ton drop weight limit
Clan = 200-220 drop weight limit

Not only does that let you play what you want, but it makes lighter mechs like the locust/commando into tonnage viable options, and it helps equalize IS and Clan by giving them different drop weight limits.

Quote

NO to the OP. The 1/1/1/1 limit ensures that each weight class is played.

No it ensures that only the best mechs in each weight class are played. It punishes players for using underdog mechs like the Locust/Commando because everyone else will be using FIrestarters.

Not only does 1/1/1/1 severely limit your options in terms of what weight classes you can take. But it also severely limits your options within each weight class. Because if you dont take the best mech for each weight class youre handicapping yourself.

Edited by Khobai, 25 September 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Cerlin]

Again, I do not like this. I'd rather have people bring one of each weight class.

[Morang]

Tonnage limit's a good idea, and 235 is a sweet spot. Class limit is probably here to stay regardless.

[Khobai]

Quote

Again, I do not like this. I'd rather have people bring one of each weight class.

Again... that just degrades into everyone using the best mech for each weight class. Its a bad system that restricts player choices to mechs that are good rather than mechs they want to play.

Quote

Tonnage limit's a good idea, and 235 is a sweet spot. Class limit is probably here to stay regardless.

Well the other MAJOR advantage of tonnage limits is balancing IS vs Clans. Clans can be given lower tonnage limits to balance out their mechs being better.

So it could be 235 tons for IS and 195-215 tons for Clans. So effectively clan mechs would be counted as being 5-10 tons heavier than their IS counterparts.

Conversely 1/1/1/1 does absolutely NOTHING to balance IS vs clans. And arguably favors clans quite heavily.

Edited by Khobai, 25 September 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[Smelly]

I have too agree with flyby215's 1x1x1x1 + 235 ton limit suggestion, I was going to post the exact same thing but flyby215 and someone else beat me to it. It just seems like the best solution all around. It is the best option to create mech diversity and overall team balance.

[ApolloKaras]

Smelly, on 25 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

I have too agree with flyby215's 1x1x1x1 + 235 ton limit suggestion, I was going to post the exact same thing but flyby215 and someone else beat me to it. It just seems like the best solution all around. It is the best option to create mech diversity and overall team balance.

Yup and PGI can still hold to the 1/1/1/1 thinking

[stjobe]

Bront, on 25 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

The Suiciding would be discouraged by teammates due to it potentially costing them the drop, and when a share of 5,000,000 cbills is on the line, why would you suicide?

Because I want back into my Timby, in which I am a GOD OF WAR (at least in my own mind; I've never piloted anything else, so I really don't know, but DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO TELL ME HOW TO PLAY. I only play Timber Wolves, so that should not only be allowed, but mandatory).

Yes, the above might have a hint of sarcasm to it.

Bront, on 25 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

The only thing I would recommend is maybe a tonnage minimum. (IE, no you can't bring only 4 Locusts). Could be low, say 120 tons, but it means that you at least have to bring either some heavier lights, or 3 really light mechs and something slightly heavier (3 Locusts and a Dragon)

BUT I ONLY PLAY COMMANDOS! Don't force me, bro!

See, it works the other way around as well.

It's silly. You can play your One True 'Mech in the non-CW queue as much as you like, but if they're going to have a respawn mode, they're never going to get it to work unless they do 1/1/1/1.

[ApolloKaras]

stjobe, on 25 September 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Because I want back into my Timby, in which I am a GOD OF WAR (at least in my own mind; I've never piloted anything else, so I really don't know, but DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO TELL ME HOW TO PLAY. I only play Timber Wolves, so that should not only be allowed, but mandatory).

Yes, the above might have a hint of sarcasm to it.


BUT I ONLY PLAY COMMANDOS! Don't force me, bro!

See, it works the other way around as well.

It's silly. You can play your One True 'Mech in the non-CW queue as much as you like, but if they're going to have a respawn mode, they're never going to get it to work unless they do 1/1/1/1.

Thats why it was suggested in the thread to do a combo of the two

[Maxx Blue]

Cerlin, on 25 September 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Again, I do not like this. I'd rather have people bring one of each weight class.

Why do you want the game to force me to play mechs I don't enjoy at all? Do you think that there is no other way to balance drop ships that wouldn't exclude me from CW? If so, please expand on why that is?