48 replies to this topic

[Maxx Blue]

Just wondering if this is still a thing, or if it sort of petered out and died. I know there was that big thread where folks were voting on a 'council' to come up with ECM ideas, but that is the last I heard about it. Did we ever get a group of people together to hash out an idea and present it? Was there ever even an official 'council' picked? Am I missing some massive, stickied thread somwhere that already answers those questions? I'm just wondering what happened with this idea.

[Redshift2k5]

http://mwomercs.com/...cil-next-steps/

Quote

Earlier this evening an idea was forming in my head when it was driven home by a few more posts. I realized how difficult it was going to be to have any success in working together as a community on until I provide more contexts. In order to do that we will need to arrange for a series of town hall meetings:

Topics to be covered in roughly the appropriate order:

- The last 2.5 years of development and the relationship between PGI and IGP in as much detail as is appropriate.
- ECM
- 3PV
- Heat Scale
- UI 2.0
- Etc.

Yes it will take a couple of months to get through this process and bring everyone up to speed on all the happenings in these moments in time, but the timing is good with the development team focused on CW phase 2.

New timeline is a much longer term project and not a quick fix.

[Fut]

Redshift2k5, on 29 September 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

New timeline is a much longer term project and not a quick fix.

Or in other words: Hype, hype, hype, excitement.... NOTHING.
PGI SOP I suppose.

Will keep waiting, and waiting... hopefully something will come from this in the next couple of years.

[SI The Joker]

"couple months" puts that effort in after they are supposed to have some CW stuff out which (in my opinion) in reading between the lines there, I take that to say "Yea, we'll get there after we give you something else you've been asking for, for a very, very long time."

Fair expectation considering the task and size of the team? Perhaps. Waiting patiently and seeing.

[1453 R]

A lot of players turned out to be Very Serious about the ECM rework, despite the all-but-impossible bar Russ had set for it. I like to think that, seeing how quickly and earnestly the forum playerbase jumped on the chance he waggled out on the end of the stick, Russ is taking the whole idea more seriously, rather than setting up a doomed-to-fail challenge just to show us how hard it is to get anyone in this damned site to agree with anyone else.

The increased communications in recent days from Russ on the forum are an encouraging sign, though many players are reserving judgment until those comms actually produce some kind of results. Personally, a hopeful-rather-than-cynical stance of "wait and see" seems appropriate to me. We took the initiative when we needed to, and now we're waiting to see if the support structure Piranha said they were going to give the hoped-for process comes through. Be prepared to get on board with it when it comes up, but right now they've got their plates awfully full with the initial implementation of Commodity Warfare.

[Almond Brown]

Fut, on 29 September 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Or in other words: Hype, hype, hype, excitement.... NOTHING.
PGI SOP I suppose.

Will keep waiting, and waiting... hopefully something will come from this in the next couple of years.

Actually, more like "the Community, once again, can't seem to even agree that the sky is BLUE on a sunny day.

Will keep waiting, and waiting... hopefully someday the "Community" will come to its senses. Although it may take the next couple of years.

Edited by Almond Brown, 29 September 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Blakkstar]

1453 R, on 29 September 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

The increased communications in recent days from Russ on the forum are an encouraging sign, though many players are reserving judgment until those comms actually produce some kind of results. Personally, a hopeful-rather-than-cynical stance of "wait and see" seems appropriate to me. We took the initiative when we needed to, and now we're waiting to see if the support structure Piranha said they were going to give the hoped-for process comes through. Be prepared to get on board with it when it comes up, but right now they've got their plates awfully full with the initial implementation of Commodity Warfare.

Hey, if you had people lining up to do your job for free while you got paid for it, you'd be more responsive too.

[1453 R]

Blakkstar, on 29 September 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Hey, if you had people lining up to do your job for free while you got paid for it, you'd be more responsive too.

Hopeful, not cynical. Every online game company's playerbase is willing, eager, oftentimes desperate to pitch in and help out, get their ideas and desires heard and put in some keyboard work to make that happen. If that's not you, and you'd prefer to just take what Piranha gives you and roll with it, a'ight. Excellent, you don't have to waste any of your time with player feedback or community development processes.

The rest of us would like the opportunity here, and if we're willing to do a little pro-bono brainstorming for the benefit of everyone who plays MWO, including you, shouldn't be any skin off your nose, eh?

[Zyllos]

Maxx Blue, on 29 September 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Just wondering if this is still a thing, or if it sort of petered out and died. I know there was that big thread where folks were voting on a 'council' to come up with ECM ideas, but that is the last I heard about it. Did we ever get a group of people together to hash out an idea and present it? Was there ever even an official 'council' picked? Am I missing some massive, stickied thread somwhere that already answers those questions? I'm just wondering what happened with this idea.

FYI, as a candidate of that committee, the last I heard something was the 18th, 11 days ago.

Redshift2k5's post is basically the overall position that PGI is at about the committee.

[Quick n Fast]

its been placed on the back burner for now...
the community here on the forums doesnt know wat to do with it..

on one side you have ppl who think its "magic" cause they dont understand how technology 1000yrs in the future could work n want to balance it around there understanding of how 20th/21st century technology works.. and not from a 30th/31 century prospective..

on the other hand the ppl who think its fine as is.. think its fine as is.. n also understand that its the only thing stopin everyone from takin lrms on everymech..

ppl who cry its not lore and/or in TT... are the ones that perty much want it hit wit a nerf bat the most.. MWO is based in the BattleTech universe.. it does not have to follow lore.. they can change anything they like as long as it doesnt change the history/lore of the BT universe.. they can do wat ever they like..

[Livewyr]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 29 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

its been placed on the back burner for now...
the community here on the forums doesnt know wat to do with it..

on one side you have ppl who think its "magic" cause they dont understand how technology 1000yrs in the future could work n want to balance it around there understanding of how 20th/21st century technology works.. and not from a 30th/31 century prospective..

on the other hand the ppl who think its fine as is.. think its fine as is.. n also understand that its the only thing stopin everyone from takin lrms on everymech..

ppl who cry its not lore and/or in TT... are the ones that perty much want it hit wit a nerf bat the most.. MWO is based in the BattleTech universe.. it does not have to follow lore.. they can change anything they like as long as it doesnt change the history/lore of the BT universe.. they can do wat ever they like..

Most unbias, much gain

contribution help

------------------------------------------

There is still active discussion in private channels regarding the "council." At this point it seems to be Russ's ball in the first meeting. (He wants to facilitate the selection of the council and, to my understanding, explain exactly what he needs then let them go from there.)

[DocBach]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 29 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

its been placed on the back burner for now...
the community here on the forums doesnt know wat to do with it..

on one side you have ppl who think its "magic" cause they dont understand how technology 1000yrs in the future could work n want to balance it around there understanding of how 20th/21st century technology works.. and not from a 30th/31 century prospective..

on the other hand the ppl who think its fine as is.. think its fine as is.. n also understand that its the only thing stopin everyone from takin lrms on everymech..

ppl who cry its not lore and/or in TT... are the ones that perty much want it hit wit a nerf bat the most.. MWO is based in the BattleTech universe.. it does not have to follow lore.. they can change anything they like as long as it doesnt change the history/lore of the BT universe.. they can do wat ever they like..

I'm totally excited for the next wave of Clan 'Mechs, which you can put together to build one huge super 'Mech that hovers and can instantly hyperjump into new maps because I too believe that we should abandon the basis of the universe this game is based on.

Nobody is pumping money into the game because of the intellectual property -- just look at how much cash transverse is rolling in. In my version of Battletech, LRM's are replaced by guided missiles that can shoot beyond visual line of sight and contain small thermonuclear warheads that kill 'Mechs in one hit, because if we have cruise missiles today, we should have 1,000 year better missiles in the future.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Who needs to fix ECM? NEW MECHS GUYS, NEW IS PACKAGE SOON. LETS BUY EM ALL!

[Procyon Alpha]

Its that we have a lot of items just given to us in this game with out us thinking about it. ECM in MWO is to hide the issue that we all have C3i or a form of it for free. We also all have BAP(TT Version) orther wise we would be playing the double blond and you would not know how badly damaged the target mech is. ECM is over powered in order to give some balance at this time.

Would I love to see people having to fill up slots with BAP to get a paper-doll, or C3i to get target info from other mechs? Yes I would but people would go screaming that the other MW titles you did not have to do that. There was a very bad presidents set and in order to over come that, there needs to be a rework, or a rethinking of how to handle it. I know I am not on the committee, but this is the kind of thinking that needs to be there. So far the only person I seen that might be on that committee that takes some of this and has some great ides to go with that is Homeless Bill, but I could be wrong, it is just what I have observed. I just hope the committee does not turn out to be a popularity contests with comp and status que groups just wanting to get their name out there.

Just hope for the best plan for the worst, that is how I am going to handle it.

[DocBach]

Yeshua Kerensky, on 29 September 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Its that we have a lot of items just given to us in this game with out us thinking about it. ECM in MWO is to hide the issue that we all have C3i or a form of it for free. We also all have BAP(TT Version) orther wise we would be playing the double blond and you would not know how badly damaged the target mech is. ECM is over powered in order to give some balance at this time.

Would I love to see people having to fill up slots with BAP to get a paper-doll, or C3i to get target info from other mechs? Yes I would but people would go screaming that the other MW titles you did not have to do that. There was a very bad presidents set and in order to over come that, there needs to be a rework, or a rethinking of how to handle it. I know I am not on the committee, but this is the kind of thinking that needs to be there. So far the only person I seen that might be on that committee that takes some of this and has some great ides to go with that is Homeless Bill, but I could be wrong, it is just what I have observed. I just hope the committee does not turn out to be a popularity contests with comp and status que groups just wanting to get their name out there.

Just hope for the best plan for the worst, that is how I am going to handle it.

We don't have C3, or C3i, or anything close to it, and you can gather information about enemy condition without Beagle Active Probe. We pretty much do have the double blind rules, however in double blind sensors can detect behind obstructions, and any target spotted visually can be fired upon without additional penalty, including LRM's.

Easiest fix to ECM to make it in line with the lore, corerules, and balance in MWO would be to add a way to target whatever is under your reticle in sensor range, then add a lock time (simulating ghost mode from TacOps) and information gathering penalty.

[Kirkland Langue]

The game would be a better place if there were no ECM. I don't know how best to fix ECM, but until that "good fix" is implemented - PGI should just disable it. Give me access to the MWO code for about 5 minutes and I could disable it (just change it's weight to 100T - it's disabled)

[RedDragon]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 29 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

its been placed on the back burner for now...
the community here on the forums doesnt know wat to do with it..

on one side you have ppl who think its "magic" cause they dont understand how technology 1000yrs in the future could work n want to balance it around there understanding of how 20th/21st century technology works.. and not from a 30th/31 century prospective..

on the other hand the ppl who think its fine as is.. think its fine as is.. n also understand that its the only thing stopin everyone from takin lrms on everymech..

ppl who cry its not lore and/or in TT... are the ones that perty much want it hit wit a nerf bat the most.. MWO is based in the BattleTech universe.. it does not have to follow lore.. they can change anything they like as long as it doesnt change the history/lore of the BT universe.. they can do wat ever they like..

Wow. In the history of bad posts this one is pretty high up the ladder.

I think in the whole discussion about ECM I never saw a single post of someone who did not "understand how technology 1000yrs in the future could work n want to balance it around there understanding of how 20th/21st century technology works".

For your information: The "magic" in magic jesus box, as ECM is often called, doesn't come from players not understanding it, but because of the way ECM works. You put it on your mech and it magically renders you and your mates invisible to radar, prevents locks etc., without you having to do anything for it. And that for virtually no cost. That is the problem people have with ECM, not that they don't understand it.
Please try to get your facts straight before putting out misinformation next time.

[Mcgral18]

RedDragon, on 29 September 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Wow. In the history of bad posts this one is pretty high up the ladder.

I think in the whole discussion about ECM I never saw a single post of someone who did not "understand how technology 1000yrs in the future could work n want to balance it around there understanding of how 20th/21st century technology works".

For your information: The "magic" in magic jesus box, as ECM is often called, doesn't come from players not understanding it, but because of the way ECM works. You put it on your mech and it magically renders you and your mates invisible to radar, prevents locks etc., without you having to do anything for it. And that for virtually no cost. That is the problem people have with ECM, not that they don't understand it.
Please try to get your facts straight before putting out misinformation next time.

I consider the Magic part of the Magic Jesus Box to be the blocking of Lvl 1 LRMs (they claim it's a 50% longer lock time, I call bollocks) because to get missile locks, you need to get a target lock, rather than just LoS (as in many previous titles). ECM can increase lock time,but shouldn't stop it entirely.

This magic is of course on top of the free Stealth armour for your entire team, which doesn't generate 1 heat per second, nor does it cost 12 crit slots, per team member.

Angel ECM does block streaks, but not gECM.

Magic Jesus Box does all of the above, at a much nicer price.

[Dracol]

Magic Jesus Box = derogatory name given to ECM to influence a reader into viewing ECM in a negative light.
Steaming from the "salvation" ECM provides against LRMs

Stealth Armor = derogatory name give to ECM to influence a reader into viewing ECM in a negative light.
Derived from the similarities of radar negation that stealth fighter jets receive from specialized paint and overall design

For those who say ECM shouldn't be the way it is cause its not in lore/BT/Prior MW | Just cause it's new/different doesn't make it bad

For the benefits to cost ratio, this is the main issue at hand. Personally, enlarging the window in which ecm covered mechs can be detected by non-bap equipped mechs would go a long way to reducing that cost/benefit disparity.

Edited by Dracol, 29 September 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Dracol, on 29 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Magic Jesus Box = derogatory name given to ECM to influence a reader into viewing ECM in a negative light.
Steaming from the "salvation" ECM provides against LRMs

Stealth Armor = derogatory name give to ECM to influence a reader into viewing ECM in a negative light.
Derived from the similarities of radar negation that stealth fighter jets receive from specialized paint and overall design

For those who say ECM shouldn't be the way it is cause its not in lore/BT/Prior MW | Just cause it's new/different doesn't make it bad

For the benefits to cost ratio, this is the main issue at hand. Personally, enlarging the window in which ecm covered mechs can be detected by non-bap equipped mechs would go a long way to reducing that cost/benefit disparity.

Actually, Stealth armour is TT/lore.

It costs 10 heat per turn/1 heat per second (turning your DHS into SHS) and 12 crit slots.