744 replies to this topic

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Kael 17, on 29 September 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

First: If I equip one S-variant Kit Fox leg, will I still be able to allocate those two jump jets anywhere I normally could (side/center torso or legs) the way I can now?

From what Russ said, if you equip a KFX-S leg the leg will have no free crit slots because the two slots that are normally free will have fixed jump jets. You cannot move those jets to other locations, they are hardwired to the leg.

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Second: If I have the S-variant Timberwolf Center Torso, but neither side torso, will I be allowed to run with one jump jet, or, because 'locked slots' are determined by the 'center torso' will I have to somehow allocate five?

In this scenario you will have one fixed jump jet in the center torso (leaving no CT crit slots available) and you will be unable to put jump jets in the side torsos or legs.

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Third: If you still plan to 'lock slots' based on what the center torso is, how will non-S-variant Kit Fox and Timberwolf variants even be able to mount jump jets? (maybe you explained this, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Currently I am stuck in a 31st century 'chicken and egg' scenario, sort of 'which comes first, the CT or the OmniPod?')

This was answered, hardwired jump jets are pod-based, so in the Kit Fox and Timber Wolf cases you can only have jump jets if you have -S omnipods equipped (and the jets will only be in those omnipods).

[Deathlike]

Kaeb Odellas, on 29 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Will the jump jet change affect the Kit Fox as well? It probably should for consistency's sake, but I don't know if the Kit Fox really needs a nerf like this.

Based on the description, yes. So, if you're trying to put in 2 MGs on the Kitfox, you will be automatically committing 1 ton and 2 crits on JJs alone.

A Timberwolf-S side torso is literally 2 tons and 2 crits each now.

Heroth, on 29 September 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

Forcing jump-jets on the timber-wolf S variant is a mistake, as it was on the Summoner... it won't do anything to actually balance out the chasis it'll just either make the S-variant useless and have no one use the whole mech or it'll just further push people into the 'pinpoint alpha' builds that are already everywhere and discourage mixed-weapon load-outs.

It's not the VARIANT that is getting the limit... it's the OMNIPOD that it will be enforced on.

Kael 17, on 29 September 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Questions, questions, where do I begin?


OmniMech Fixed Jump Jets.

Quite honestly, given the way you decided to implement Omni-pods the way jump jets were originally assigned seemed to both hold true to lore and was internally consistent with the system you have designed. This 'fix'? Not so much. On the Kit Fox the JJs were always modular and now they are not. On the Timberwolf the JJs were always modular and now they are not. So...break with the lore (in the past understandable and forgiven, this time...not so much yet), break the system (less so, and having a hard time respectively), moving on to getting over it.

So, questions.

First: If I equip one S-variant Kit Fox leg, will I still be able to allocate those two jump jets anywhere I normally could (side/center torso or legs) the way I can now?

No. They are "hardlocked" to the Kitfox-S's omnipod.

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Second: If I have the S-variant Timberwolf Center Torso, but neither side torso, will I be allowed to run with one jump jet, or, because 'locked slots' are determined by the 'center torso' will I have to somehow allocate five?

If you don't use the Timberwolf-S's side torsos on the Timberwolf-S, then the sole JJ on the Center Torso is what you will have for JJ power. To add to the JJ power, you have to add the Timberwolf-S side torso omnipods.

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Third: If you still plan to 'lock slots' based on what the center torso is, how will non-S-variant Kit Fox and Timberwolf variants even be able to mount jump jets? (maybe you explained this, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Currently I am stuck in a 31st century 'chicken and egg' scenario, sort of 'which comes first, the CT or the OmniPod?')

You're misunderstanding... the locked slots only pertain to the omnipod for that section. For instance, if you wish to use the Kitfox-S's JJ-locked omnipods on the Prime, you will be forced to commit .5 tons and 1 crit to each of the Kitfox-S's side torso omnipods, or 1 ton and 2 crits to each of the Kitfox-S's leg omnipods.

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Fourth: Because the option whether or not to mount jump jets (and some instead of all) was presented as a positive quirk that is now being take away, and in fact extending to a de-buff at least in sense of lost tonnage and slot location, will these components be extended replacement positive quirks?

It doesn't sound like it until they do the "clan quirks pass".

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Fifth: Because you are now establishing that mechs mounting jump jets have to run jump jets (or at least those mounting parts that have jump jets will have to run those jump jets) will you be enforcing the same construction mechanic on Inner Sphere mechs?

These are omnipod changes, so the answer is probably no.

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Mech Quirks:

Is it your intention to make certain mechs' cannon weapon suites playable? I ask specifically in reference to those loads most severely affected by ghost heat...excuse me, I mean 'heat scale', including the Warhawk Prime, Nova Prime, Adder Prime, and Hunchback-4P?

That's what it sounds like, but we'd have to wait to find out what those changes are on the appropriate patch day when these are implemented.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 September 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[TyphonCh]

You guys deserve an applause.
These are all the things the community has been griping about. Some excellent plans coming up along with community warfare
I think I can hear crickets chirping in the haters corner

[Deathlike]

I would like to add... moving Paul to work on CW instead of balance has wholly improved the balancing in general.

I hope this continues.

[Geck0]

Just a quick suggestion for the quirks concerning newer players.

Please make them easier to see and identify. When looking to buy them they should be visible. Will help guide new players when building out their mechs. This will hopefully lead to better initial builds, which will result in better performances and will result in better player experience. And in the end this helps retention. (BTW I did that for a living so consider this a freebie)

[Em3r4ld]

1) The heat penalty on for the side torso loss on a clan 'mech is unlikely to make much difference. Losing 20% of your heat efficiency when you've already lost around 50% of your weapons still makes you more heat efficient than you were before! I really think some form of torso twist and/or overall speed nerf would have been the way to go to actually make a difference.

2) Effectively forcing people to use the stock loadout of a specific 'mech (i.e giving buffs to the AC20 on the HBK-4G) is going someway to removing the soul of the game: The customisability and the huge variation in builds we currently see. That 4G, for example, Has 3 ballistic hardpoints which will mostly go unused (with the exception of some MGs perhaps), which seems a shame. Buffing the energy would push people further away from multi-ballistic builds too! It's a shame because my LBX, 2MG, 3ML psychological-warfare-crit-seeker will barely see any improvement.

I really hope there are some nice quirks on the Catapult. They're not super-rare or anything yet but running one if more of a novelty thing than being able to effectively contribute to a team.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Does this mean AMS support will have its own reward or something? I run my Vindi 1AA with twin AMS, i like sprinting up to allies being rained by lrms and help give them cover, so this would be awesome.

[Shibas]

Russ,

I apologize if this has been asked, but is it possible for you to post a listing of what mech chassis falls under what tier?. I'm rather curious to see something like this. Some mechs I can already guess as to where they fall, but I would like to see a chart of it if possible.

Edited by Shibas, 29 September 2014 - 08:25 PM.

[Scratx]

This begs asking : Since the incoming quirks will be a massive balance change over all the mechs, should we expect no more tweaks for a while to let things settle and see how mech and build diversity has been affected? And, of course, later see how ISvClan balance stands.

[Heroth]

Deathlike, on 29 September 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

It's not the VARIANT that is getting the limit... it's the OMNIPOD that it will be enforced on.

It *is* the entire variant... because the variant *has* the S-pods... it means the samething, mate... if i have a full S-variant timber-wolf it will be forced to have jumpjets because it has S-variant pods and if i have a prime-variant with S torso-pods, once again it *has* s-pods so it is forced to mount jumpjets.

Not sure what your point was?

Edited by Heroth, 29 September 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[Postumus]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

The key is a boost without resurrecting pop tarting

You can have a big boost without bringing back pop-tarting, and it is totally worth the extra time developing a system to do this. People have been brainstorming on this issue since JJs got nerfed.

[Sean von Steinike]

Looking good, sounds good...let's hope for well implemented follow through.

[Taranum42]

Luv the new pgi pls go on like this.

[Deathlike]

Heroth, on 29 September 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

It *is* the entire variant... because the variant *has* the S-pods... it means the samething, mate... if i have a full S-variant timber-wolf it will be forced to have jumpjets because it has S-variant pods and if i have a prime-variant with S torso-pods, once again it *has* s-pods so it is forced to mount jumpjets.

Not sure what your point was?

You're mixing up the terms a little.

By default, if you leave the omnipods on the Timberwolf-S alone, then of course, you get all 5 JJs. However, you can reduce it down to 1 by swapping the Timberwolf-S's side torso omnipods out. It's not "fixed" to the varient's chassis... it's fixed to the omnipod.

A Timberwolf-Prime adding both Timberwolf-S's side torsos will have 4 JJs now, up from 0.

Edit: I want to make clear that my definition of variant's chassis is a little different from omnipod. The CT is the "fixed" omnipod, which is easier to consider as the variant of the chassis like for IS mechs. That is "unchangeable" and differentiates the mech from the other variants (unless, you're a Kitfox, which has no discernible value). The omnipod is what is "housing" the fixed JJs now...

Whatever, it's just terminology and semantics.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 September 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[El Bandito]

Wait, so you lose 20% of your internal cooling when you lose 50% of your weapons?

This nerf is sooooo slight. PGI should implement scaling MS penalty in addition, depending on the engine rating.

[Heroth]

Deathlike, on 29 September 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

You're mixing up the terms a little.

By default, if you leave the omnipods on the Timberwolf-S alone, then of course, you get all 5 JJs. However, you can reduce it down to 1 by swapping the Timberwolf-S's side torso omnipods out. It's not "fixed" to the varient's chassis... it's fixed to the omnipod.

A Timberwolf-Prime adding both Timberwolf-S's side torsos will have 4 JJs now, up from 0.

Edit: I want to make clear that my definition of variant's chassis is a little different from omnipod. The CT is the "fixed" omnipod, which is easier to consider as the variant of the chassis like for IS mechs. That is "unchangeable" and differentiates the mech from the other variants (unless, you're a Kitfox, which has no discernible value). The omnipod is what is "housing" the fixed JJs now...

Whatever, it's just terminology and semantics.

I never said it didn't? i'm not sure what point you are trying to make... my point is forcing jump-jets on *anything* is a mistake... you are literally arguing over semantics.

I've even edited my orginal post, just to make it clearer.

Edited by Heroth, 29 September 2014 - 08:49 PM.

[BlackBeltJones]

I hate everything but I think this is absolutely fantastic!

[Xanquil]

I like everything I've read in the roadmap. If it done right I'll be happy with these changes.
The only thing that would make me happier is if the perfect convergent pinpoint alphas would be "fixed" so that ghost heat can go away. I will continue to wait and hope for that happiest of days.

Keep on keeping us informed Russ, looking forward to hearing more good changes like this soon.

[Cerlin]

Looking great Russ! All the responses were great too! I look forward to seeing these implemented and how they effect balance. Clans are still superpowered and this will hopefully help.

[MauttyKoray]

Not happy specifically about the HBK-4G getting AC-20 specific when it is a multi-ballistic point mech. The AC-20 quirk would be better off given to the 4H which only has 1 ballistic point and therefore benefits more from bringing an AC-20. The 4H's setups include 3 AC-2, 2 AC-5/UAC-5, 1 AC-10 + 1 AC-5, and even AC-10/AC20 + 2 MGs. Where are the only 2 ballistics its worth taking on the 4H are an AC-10 or AC-20.

Understandably, there are more energy weapons on the 4H as well, which seems to correlate to the energy weapon boost quirks as well you're giving to the 4G. My point is look over the variants and their weaponry again to make sure you're not giving a quirk to a mech that won't find it as useful as a general quirk or vice versa.