New To Dire Wolves. Op Much?
#21
Posted 30 September 2014 - 06:56 AM
Its amazingly vulnerable when it gets focus fire because it's so slow however so if you lead a push and get FF you can get wrecked fast. I don't personally have a problem with lights in mine however.
I think the DW is fine as it is. As long as you have a clan mech with 50tons of pod space, it's going to be a beast.
#22
Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:02 AM
fx8320, on 29 September 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:
Fact is, DWF is also going to get punished at the first mistake in a good match, that's the whole point, immense firepower, but if you get focused there's nothing you can do, you are dead. Just, in PUGs, that doesn't happen too frequently.
However, after Mastering them, I pulled out mystalkers and got 3x 1000+ games in a row and I felt like I was driving a Jenner. So are stalkers overpowered too?
Also, there are like 3-4 per side every game since the release, you notice the one with 700-800 damage which is just normal assault damage,but what about the other 4-5 that got 300 damage ?
There are just too much of them right now ingame. 4-5 assaults per team is just not normal, think is as this : how often did you face or had 4 to 6 atlai in the same team ? 'cos this is the tonnage you are facing or running with. Just give it time
Before the 3/3/3/3 bs i often dropped against matches with 8 Atlas and 4 Embers.....i dont think its any worse. Its actually much better must have not been around before the days of 4x3 or you should still be having nightmares or 12 JR7 teams. You claim you just got them but you think you know enough about them to claim they are OP? How many matches you played 3? Play 35 games then post the scores....
Nothing wrong with the DWF and to be honest 700 dmg is normal. Its when you double that and start putting up 1400 normally then we may have an argument about something being out of balance.....
I did a 700 DMG game in my DWF last night too then i turned around and put up 900 with my JR7.
Jenner OP
Edited by DarthRevis, 30 September 2014 - 07:07 AM.
#23
Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:14 AM
I think you're having a winning streak. If you're new to assaults, then yes you've been seeded in ELO.
If you're not new to assaults and frequently use them, then you are more or less at your ELO. This is under the assumption that ELO participates in group play.
The real question is how do you fair in solo play?
Also given due time, you'll eventually be opted for a losing streak. You won't feel so overpowered then.
Edited by Koniving, 30 September 2014 - 07:15 AM.
#24
Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:17 AM
Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 30 September 2014 - 07:18 AM.
#25
Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:27 AM
DarthRevis, on 30 September 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:
Before the 3/3/3/3 bs i often dropped against matches with 8 Atlas and 4 Embers.....i dont think its any worse. Its actually much better must have not been around before the days of 4x3 or you should still be having nightmares or 12 JR7 teams. You claim you just got them but you think you know enough about them to claim they are OP? How many matches you played 3? Play 35 games then post the scores....
Nothing wrong with the DWF and to be honest 700 dmg is normal. Its when you double that and start putting up 1400 normally then we may have an argument about something being out of balance.....
I did a 700 DMG game in my DWF last night too then i turned around and put up 900 with my JR7.
Jenner OP
I don't know where you read I said they are OP, I said they are ok.
Played 150 games making full use of free premium time.
I've also started in a decent helo I think, because my previous assaults are stalkers, with a 3,50 k/d on 3F and 3H being my best assaults now, and 2,70 on the 5M, 500 matches and something like 1,3 win rate, moslty solo, so I think it was not a streak but just being able to matter sometimes.
With the DWF, I've had games in the 1100+ and games in the 200s, avg I think is around 500 or 600.
We if you take any other build then 5xUAC5 they are normal.
The 5xUAC5 wrecks anything dumb enough to front approach...but why would one do it?
I got owned by many good light pilots, or when the team left me behind, or with lurms and ECM not covering.
Ofc, when the other team tried to approach frontally, it was a massacre.
But so I was on LRM stalkers when the other team doesn't cover, or on SRM stalker when the other team doesn't watch the flank etc etc
To me they are not OP, but very amazing situational mechs, much like the stalkers, and that's why I like them.
And what I'm saing in the other post is 700 dmg is normal for an assault...I don't know why you quoted me but I'm saying more or less what you then type to me because it's not true that DWF are constantly doing 1400 damage, best players are constantly doing 1000 damage which is far different. At least I've seen much more DWFs scoring in the 300s then in the 1000s in those 150 matches.
Edited by fx8320, 30 September 2014 - 07:33 AM.
#26
Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:45 AM
fx8320, on 30 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:
I don't know where you read I said they are OP, I said they are ok.
Played 150 games making full use of free premium time.
I've also started in a decent helo I think, because my previous assaults are stalkers, with a 3,50 k/d on 3F and 3H being my best assaults now, and 2,70 on the 5M, 500 matches and something like 1,3 win rate, moslty solo, so I think it was not a streak but just being able to matter sometimes.
With the DWF, I've had games in the 1100+ and games in the 200s, avg I think is around 500 or 600.
We if you take any other build then 5xUAC5 they are normal.
The 5xUAC5 wrecks anything dumb enough to front approach...but why would one do it?
I got owned by many good light pilots, or when the team left me behind, or with lurms and ECM not covering.
Ofc, when the other team tried to approach frontally, it was a massacre.
But so I was on LRM stalkers when the other team doesn't cover, or on SRM stalker when the other team doesn't watch the flank etc etc
To me they are not OP, but very amazing situational mechs, much like the stalkers, and that's why I like them.
And what I'm saing in the other post is 700 dmg is normal for an assault...I don't know why you quoted me but I'm saying more or less what you then type to me because it's not true that DWF are constantly doing 1400 damage, best players are constantly doing 1000 damage which is far different. At least I've seen much more DWFs scoring in the 300s then in the 1000s in those 150 matches.
My response was missing a quote....some of that was meant to the OP (Original Poster)
But you claimed 4 or 5 assaults was to many in a game....i pointed you to the time BEFORE 4x3 when you could go up against 12 assaults while you Team did not have a SINGLE ONE. In a 12 player match 4 assaults is only 1/3rd of the team hardly too many. Also with current MM rules i have yet to see a match that wasnt even or close to. So if they have 4 or 5 so does your team....
Edited by DarthRevis, 30 September 2014 - 07:46 AM.
#27
Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:52 AM
#28
Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:00 AM
Sure it's slow as hell but that's really it's only weakness. In a good team that don't just all fight for themselves or leave it behind, it can be devastating (as can the Warhawk as well)
The Daishi is well-known as one of the premier Assaults from previous games and tabletop but the devs have to make a coherent choice here between balance and canon.
They have already stated that they do not intend to do 10 vs 12 clan vs IS. They have also recently stated that in CW they are in favour of drop weight limits rather than class limits for the 4 mechs each of us can take on our dropships for planetary invasion/defence.
Both decisions favour Clan mechs and, imho, will have to be reviewed at some point in one of those familiar PGI u-turns.
back to the OP....yes Dire Wolves are overpowered for a game that the devs intend to be balanced (in terms of the original lore, they are just as in previous games, high fire-power, top of the hill Assaults)
#29
Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:39 AM
#31
Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:25 AM
Parazaine, on 30 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:
Sure it's slow as hell but that's really it's only weakness. In a good team that don't just all fight for themselves or leave it behind, it can be devastating (as can the Warhawk as well)
The Daishi is well-known as one of the premier Assaults from previous games and tabletop but the devs have to make a coherent choice here between balance and canon.
They have already stated that they do not intend to do 10 vs 12 clan vs IS. They have also recently stated that in CW they are in favour of drop weight limits rather than class limits for the 4 mechs each of us can take on our dropships for planetary invasion/defence.
Both decisions favour Clan mechs and, imho, will have to be reviewed at some point in one of those familiar PGI u-turns.
back to the OP....yes Dire Wolves are overpowered for a game that the devs intend to be balanced (in terms of the original lore, they are just as in previous games, high fire-power, top of the hill Assaults)
They are not OP, Clan Tech is not OP. The fact you even said that shows me how little you know about Tech in general.
How about the PPFLD that the IS use? A/C20? Shorter Burn time Lasers, swappable engines, the ability to Equip FF and Endo or neither if you choose. Adjustable top speeds, Faster Lights, STD or XL engines....
Yea, Clan Tech is so OP, Not to mention we have HARDWIRED stuff and they are getting ready to MAKE MORE STUFF HARDWIRED. Pretty soon the Clan mechs will be NON CUSTOMIZABLE. But you really should keep talking about how much better Clan Tech is....
#32
Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:49 AM
DarthRevis, on 30 September 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:
They are not OP, Clan Tech is not OP. The fact you even said that shows me how little you know about Tech in general.
How about the PPFLD that the IS use? A/C20? Shorter Burn time Lasers, swappable engines, the ability to Equip FF and Endo or neither if you choose. Adjustable top speeds, Faster Lights, STD or XL engines....
Yea, Clan Tech is so OP, Not to mention we have HARDWIRED stuff and they are getting ready to MAKE MORE STUFF HARDWIRED. Pretty soon the Clan mechs will be NON CUSTOMIZABLE. But you really should keep talking about how much better Clan Tech is....
So ur saying IS is OP but magicaly all clan players are just that much better so they can roll over IS.
This shows me how much U dont want to know about tech all around.
I m personaly not sure about Dires being OP they are powerhouse sure but they do have a weaknesses.Thou truth be told in wise group play all those weaknesses can be negated.
Now I m yet to learn weaknes of Timbers.
#33
Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:07 AM
Just so you know.. if you take an Atlas and slow it down, you can hold toe to toe with these big boys... Now if you choose speed over damage, you can keep the Atlas hauling (faster) and moving with less weapons and easily causing a headache for the slow turning Direwolf. Overall, the Direwolves are FAR from OP.
Advice: Move out of Toe-to-toe fighting if you are running a fast assault, and work the body. If you go slow, you can Toe-to-Toe it just fine and utilize weapon ranges to dominate....
Builds I use...
AS7-D
AS7-D-DC
AS7-K
AS7-RS(C)
BOAR'S HEAD
Edited by Creovex, 30 September 2014 - 11:59 AM.
#34
Posted 30 September 2014 - 02:15 PM
that's another reason I'd bring an atlas in a competitive game, and a DWF in a solo drop, others just won't follow you in solo, but in a team, a charging atlas is much better for the role.
however as you mentioned, I think nowdays the real advantage atlas has, is it can be pretty fast for a 100 tonner, I'd go with the speed path which is much funnier too
AS7-D-DC
Lower alpha but amazing speed for a 100T and still devastating in brawls with ac20 and 3xsrm6+A, plus good cooling eff.
PS
my best so far with the DWF :
still can' reach my stalker match score
Edited by fx8320, 30 September 2014 - 02:45 PM.
#35
Posted 30 September 2014 - 04:35 PM
Koniving, on 30 September 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:
Also given due time, you'll eventually be opted for a losing streak. You won't feel so overpowered then.
Yeah the dire is just slightly above average because it is clan. Also I have gone on a losing streak now BUT I did ok still averaging 500-700 damage I just couldn't figure out how to carry the team like I could on a timber. When I was low elo with my timber I was getting 1k++ damage games left and right
Thanks you guys for the responses my fears for clan opness have been put to rest so to speak. The nuances of how the dire plays I must now unlock to get even better
Edited by Tool Box, 30 September 2014 - 04:39 PM.
#37
Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:55 AM
IF lances would dumb down their assaults to 55kph top speed and use that now empty space for ammo, heat sinks etc. its advantage would triple.
Till then...I'll keep killing them by going behind, or just getting on top just a little.
Pug Analogy: Think Wile E Coyote and the Train.....if he'd ONLY taken three steps to the side, that train of pain would go flying by.
#38
Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:29 AM
Quote
As for the damage, unfortunately the game stats does not separate pure direct damage from the indirect damage (ammo explosions) and with the number of weapons or type of weapons it can equip, there are more opportunities for crits once the armor has been removed. That one of the advantage of burst shots on the ballistics, the longer duration of beam time and staggered missile flight.
#39
Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:30 AM
#40
Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:16 AM
Frankly, I've found that I am constantly under performing in my own Dire Wolves, consistently scoring around 300 damage or so. In short, by my own standards, I am scoring at half the minimum requirement for an Assault. Contrast this to my BLRs where I consistently score about 700 damage.
My own observations then, are this: Dire Wolves are the single most powerful Mech in the game, but are also the most difficult to pilot. Their lack of mobility and agility make them very vulnerable and necessitate bodyguards to protect them from Lights and Mediums. Shoot, I've used my LCT-1V(P) (1 MPL and Quad MGs) to solo kill Dire Wolves. However, all their offensive firepower still makes Dire Wolves the single most dangerous Mech in the game to face head-on in a fight.
So...basically, it all boils down to this: How good a pilot are you? Can you keep the enemy in front of your guns? How good are your teammates? Can they keep the enemy out of your six? If you answered "Good," "Yes," "Good," and "Yes," to the those questions, then I think that 700 damage is a very reasonable score.
...If you're like me though, and have trouble piloting such a slow Mech and are solo pugging a lot, then your score should be much lower since Dire Wolves are not a good pugging Mech.
Finally, yes, the Timbers are the single best Mech in the game at this moment. However, best does not necessarily translate into high scores. I've used Tier 5 IS Mechs to solo duel and kill Timbies simply because I'm better than those pilots. I've also scored over 900 damage with one of my own Timbies. Basically, when the chips are down and the cards are on the table, it always, always comes down to pilot skill. Yes, certain Mechs are better, but that really only matters when the pilots themselves have similar skill sets.
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