166 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

If going by critical slots, say in Russ's mind when a clan mech loses its side torso that has 2 outta 10 crits slots in the side torso and only loses 20% of its heat sinks...

WHY DO IS mechs DIE! when then lose their XL side torso when they only have 3/10 criticals slots in the side torso?

Penalty should be much more severe for clans, mean side torso lose = 66% loss in XL engine heat sinks. 100% engine heat sink loss in IS XL mechs.

Edited by ManDaisy, 29 September 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[FupDup]

It's a holdover from TableTop rules. Basically, any mech dies when its engine gets critically hit 3 times. These crits can be performed even on the mech's CT, on a mech using a STD engine. IS XL engines have 3 slots per side torso, meaning that a side torso loss results in 3 instant engine crits -- therefore death. Clan XLs only have 2 crits per side, so they only get 2/3 dead.

[ManDaisy]

Going by that logics, clans should lose 66% or 2/3s their engine heat sinks, not only 20%.

[Brody319]

ManDaisy, on 29 September 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

Going by that logics, clans should lose 66% or 2/3s their engine heat sinks, not only 20%.

Because Science!

[Bishop Steiner]

ManDaisy, on 29 September 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

Going by that logics, clans should lose 66% or 2/3s their engine heat sinks, not only 20%.

so magically they have 2/3 of their heat sinks in each side torso? Wouldn't that be ...4/3s? Assuming none in the CT?

Also, you do know that engines are more than JUST heat Sink receptacles? It is implying that the engine took enough damage to no longer be functional after 3 critical spaces are destroyed. Since the largest part of the engine is in the CT it sort of makes sense that 4 HS are there, and 3 per side, when possible.

[ManDaisy]

That actually makes a lot of sense. But still, 20% heat sink loss is too light for clans compared to instant death of IS mechs. I have no problem with IS instant death, but clan penalties are too light!

Now it were 3 heat sinks AND 33% speed decrease, that would be balanced.

Edited by ManDaisy, 29 September 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[Mcgral18]

ManDaisy, on 29 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

That actually makes a lot of sense. But still, 20% heat sink loss is too light for clans compared to instant death of IS mechs. I have no problem with IS instant death, but clan penalties are too light!

Now it were 3 heat sinks AND 33% speed decrease, that would be balanced.

Remember, this also affects the Cute Fox, the Badder, the Nope-Va, the Suckoner, the PeaceDove, the MythLynx, the IceHamster, the Bear'oCare named Doug....and all other mediocre upcoming mechs in the Clan lineup.

Sure, it'll affect the 4 (5?) good ones, but so did all those heat nerfs.


Why would you kill my WubFox with 150% heat?

[KraftySOT]

To be fair IS mechs are in the advantage here...we get engine hit all the time in the CT with no effect at all.

There is no "3 hits and you die"

You have an engine until the CT is entirely destroyed. You only have an "insta death" penalty on the XL. Now Clans get a penalty to their XLs.

I also think 20% is a little too light of a penalty. I mean your pilot skills more than negate it? This only penalizes noobs in clan mechs really.

At least make it a heat AND movement penalty.

Edited by KraftySOT, 29 September 2014 - 07:54 PM.

[Mcgral18]

KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

To be fair IS mechs are in the advantage here...we get engine hit all the time in the CT with no effect at all.

There is no "3 hits and you die"

You have an engine until the CT is entirely destroyed. You only have an "insta death" penalty on the XL. Now Clans get a penalty to their XLs.

I also think 20% is a little too light of a penalty. I mean your pilot skills more than negate it? This only penalizes noobs in clan mechs really.

At least make it a heat AND movement penalty.

15% cooling and 20% capacity.

So, you cool a tad slower than a trial mech of identical build, with the same heat cap.

[Rebas Kradd]

20% heat penalties will be a drop in the bucket in the 12vs12 furballs we're playing in.

If you want to make a nerf noticeable in the current fracas, you need to either reduce MWO to 4v4 or come up with a nerf that will have more noticeable and pronounced effects amidst the current high damage output. You won't even notice a 20% heat issue before my the next volley of Dire Wolf weaponry hits you.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 29 September 2014 - 08:04 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

With a lower Heat Capacity, a 20% loss would be a bigger deal.

[Xtrekker]

When I blow out 20% of my Tundra's engine, it doesn't move at all.

[El Bandito]

Wait, so you lose 20% of your internal cooling when you lose 50% of your weapons?

This nerf is sooooo slight. PGI should implement scaling MS penalty in addition, depending on the engine rating.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 September 2014 - 10:01 PM.

[Scratx]

20% is still 20%. Let's see what it actually does in play before we go saying "It's too little!".

Remember, aren't we the ones continuously advocating for balancing to be done in small steps? Instead of big NERFINATOR-grade stomps?

Chill.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xtrekker, on 29 September 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

When I blow out 20% of my Tundra's engine, it doesn't move at all.

your tundra runs a fusion reactor with all sorts of shielding and heat sinks on it?

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 September 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

your tundra runs a fusion reactor with all sorts of shielding and heat sinks on it?

It's the LS series...

[Whatzituyah]

Clans are aliens of a sort they developed advanced tech compared to the IS while the IS was stuck fighting among themselves even though some wars broke out between Clans I don't think there were that many.

I don't really know Battletech lore someone correct me if you can.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 29 September 2014 - 09:25 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

It's about engine shielding, and minimum operating standards against emergency cutoffs.

Each critical slot doesn't represent underlying mechanics, but rather engine shielding, which prevents the fusion engine from escaping its containment bottle and stops the pilot from getting a massive dose of radiation. As the engine takes damage, the shielding starts to fail. After a certain degree of shielding loss (3+ critical slots), the emergency cutoffs kick in and the engine goes into a hard power lock.

Lower amounts of engine damage (1-2 critical slots worth of lost shielding) still result in significant waste heat spilling into the mech's inner workings.

Russ's line of reasoning isn't entirely correct, but the spirit of the idea is true, and the end result is pretty much accurate to what it should be (especially if it's just a starting point, pending balance adjustments).

Edit:

My preference would be for it to generate extra heat, rather than reduce heat dissipation rates. +0.60 heat per second would be about right as a starting point, based on losing 2 engine crits, IIRC.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 29 September 2014 - 09:40 PM.

[Aresye]

Scratx, on 29 September 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

20% is still 20%. Let's see what it actually does in play before we go saying "It's too little!".

Remember, aren't we the ones continuously advocating for balancing to be done in small steps? Instead of big NERFINATOR-grade stomps?

Chill.

Ah, the voice of reason. So rare nowadays.

[Cerlin]

I will also like to see how all the changes pan out before I pass judgement. I may be too much or too little, we do not know yet. I am happy to see this lore based choice of balace however.

Edited by Cerlin, 29 September 2014 - 10:01 PM.