647 replies to this topic

[Flying Fox 333]

Bilbo, on 30 September 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm curious to see where the new Atlas will fall. Will it come in without quirks?

My feeling is that it should be with the DDC, due to its hardpoints being superior. Even without the ECM.

[Darth Futuza]

I'm confused, what are these tier thingies? I must've missed a news post way back.

[FupDup]

Darth Futuza, on 30 September 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm confused, what are these tier thingies? I must've missed a news post way back.

It's basically putting mechs into "bins" based on how good/bad they are. Tier 1 represents the best mechs and Tier 5 represents the worst. We don't fully know the exact criteria being used to determine tiers yet.

[Thorqemada]

The Tier listing so far is pretty good i feel - a few things me come to mind:

No Tier 1 Medium - that is spot on as the Medium Weightclass is under heavy pressure from the Light and Heavy Weihtclass.
The SHD2D2 is to me above the other SHDs but you can not move them to Tier 3 so you need to take care individually.
The Yen Lo Wang imho is better than the CN9-D/AL.
All Mediums can be easily legged by most Mechs of the other Weightclasses - its easier to leg a Medium than a Light (bcs Lights have the speed to keep their Legs out of Weapon LOS) and the Heavy and Assault Weightclass have the Structure and Armor to be significantly more durable - imho this is an oportunity to bring some Balance into this.
Also the Speed Balance is well worth a look bcs most Mediums in general be to slow leaving the Speed gap to Lights far to big and to Heavys far to small.
In the current MWO the Medium Mech Speed should be around 105kph without sacrificing payload ending with less firepower than Lights.


The Ilya Muromets was allways an outstanding Mech to me as well as i put the Jagers above the Catapults.

How do ECM + Jumpjets play into the Tier ranking?
Fundamentally Mechs with Jumpjets have a significant Advantage above No-JJMechs though it is not as big as the ECM Advantage.

Edited by Thorqemada, 01 October 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[FupDup]

Thorqemada, on 30 September 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

---
In the current MWO the Medium Mech Speed should be around 105kph without sacrificing payload ending with less firepower than Lights.
---

I actually have two mediums that roughly accomplish that right now.

Shadow Hawk 2K with 3 ERLL and a crapton of DHS, with an XL325 engine. Ridiculously heat efficient and can keep firing salvo after salvo after salvo after salvo...

Second is the new Sparky Griffin, with the trademark 2 LL + 4 ML loadout with an XL315. Can handle a few alphas before needing to cool off. Decent heat endurance if you use alphas to reach the threshold and switch to volley fire while you cool down.

Well, I guess there's also basically any Stormcrow build, so that's a third (although I don't use it much after I mastered it).

Edited by FupDup, 30 September 2014 - 06:44 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

Thorqemada, on 30 September 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

How do ECM + Jumpjets pPlay into the Tier ranking?
Fundamentally Mechs with Jumpjets have a significant Advantage above No-JJMechs though it is not as big as the ECM Advantage.

Not to mention JJ's and possibly ECM is going to be getting some major changes. How will the JJ changes efect the tier values on some of these mechs?

[Wrayeth]

First, I'd like to say that the jump jet changes are a step in the right direction, and I definitely appreciate that. However, I don't believe they go far enough. It sounds like you still won't be able to jump up onto buildings or DFA with a Highlander.

From the other thread (since this now seems to be the active one):

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

The key is a boost without resurrecting pop tarting

I do get where you're coming from, here. However, I believe that it would be possible to allow full jumping without bringing pop-tarting back.

I'm personally a fan of the fast-up-and-fast-down approach, with a huge initial thrust that launches you off the ground. Your primary thrust would burn out before you hit the top of the arc, and you'd continue ascending until your inertia is countered by gravity, then you'd begin falling. This would result in a kind of mini-game where you have to correctly judge the duration of thrust you'll need. Too little and you fail to clear the obstacle you're jumping over. Too much and you'll overshoot your intended landing zone.

The other addition to this would be a division of the jump jet bar. Basically, your jump jet meter will be divided into two portions: jump jets and retro rockets. The jumping portion will draw from the first part of the bar, and the second part will be for your retros, which can't be fired until the game detects that you're falling. At that point, the retros can be fired by pressing the jump button again, drawing from the other part of the jump jet bar and slowing your descent. Unlike jump jets, the retros will not provide sufficient thrust to get the mech moving in an upwards direction, but will, if timed properly, slow the fall enough to avoid damage.

Add camera shake on both the ascent and descent, and you've now got a functioning jumping system that makes it very difficult to pop-tart.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Forgot to add that you can't reactivate the jets after you let up on the jump button, though you can fire the retros once you've begun descending.

Edited by Wrayeth, 30 September 2014 - 07:05 PM.

[Angry Kylo Ren]

Overall this list is very good. Surprisingly good, in fact (no offense ).

That said, I do have a few opinions to share. Because it's the Internet and it's obligatory.

1) I feel like the GFN-3M and SHD-2d2 and 2K are tier 1 mechs.
2) It scares me that spiders are going to be buffed. There should be no tier 5 spiders, since their agilty/hit boxes make them naturally powerful.
3) Ilyas in Tier 4 a bit scary. Especially the 2X.
4) Orion Protector is a good mech, wonder if it should be a tier 3.
5) HGN-733C and Atlas DDC are pretty clear tier 1 mechs imo - DDC especially it's one of the best mechs in the game.

[FupDup]

makbeer, on 30 September 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

---
2) It scares me that spiders are going to be buffed. There should be no tier 5 spiders, since their agilty/hit boxes make them naturally powerful.
---

I'm guessing that the reason for Spiders being ranked low is because they have very very low firepower. The 5V variant, for example, is literally limited to just 2 Medium Lasers or 2 Medium Pulse Lasers. How is that not Tier 5? Could probably even qualify for its own 6th tier lol.

A Jenner or Firestarter literally has twice the firepower of a Spider (or more!) for only 5 tons of extra body mass. In the case of the lowly 5V, the Jenner or Firestarter has triple the firepower.

Edited by FupDup, 30 September 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[NRP]

Meh. Clan mechs get too much nerfing. That's why I didn't drop any money on Wave 2.

[Angry Kylo Ren]

It's not their firepower that makes them good.

[ShinVector]

Hi Russ,
Suggest putting lights off Tier 1 till you guys fix hit registration problems for lasers for non-NA players.
These are the lights primary weapons.
It already being mention since you are putting 100% into CW.. You have no time look at the hit reg issues.

[FupDup]

makbeer, on 30 September 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

It's not their firepower that makes them good.

The only one that can legitimately qualify as "good" is the 5D, due almost entirely to its ECM. The Anansi is meh, and only really works as a Narc Beacon troll. The 5K is a pure troll that just tickles people with MGs. The 5V exists solely to make the energy Locusts feel good about themselves.

Yes, Spiders are indeed hard to hit because they're scrawny. But you don't win battles by being skinny. You win games in MWO by killing all enemy mechs (usually). Mechs which don't kill or at least significantly damage enemy mechs aren't as valuable to their team as mechs which do.

Edited by FupDup, 30 September 2014 - 07:33 PM.

[Spheroid]

The Locust-1M is very much better than the 1V and 3S. Put the latter in tier 6. 2x mlas + 2x SRM4 is a nice little harasser.

[Hoax415]

Wanted to take this opportunity to post what I posted back when I first saw the tier list in another thread:

Hoax415, on 30 September 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

That's a solid list if its real here are my thoughts:

-I hope the Awesomes are already considered as getting some of their tier5 quirks with the work that has been done on them. Because the current "quirked" Awesomes aren't tier5 anymore.

-STK-5S is Tier4? On first pass that's probably the most shocking listing I saw. I didn't expect to see any Stalkers that low and to see the 4N on the same tier as the 5S seems really wrong.

-I'm a little surprised to see so many Phracts so low, that chassis is good except when you compare it to other Phracts.

-Considering chassis like the CTF I don't get how every single SHD is tier2 despite the fact that some are way worse than others. It feels very inconsistent with other mechs.

-I like a lot that its mainly mediums and heavies getting heavy work. They are in much worse shape on IS side.

-I hope Audivo chimes in on the light rankings, I don't pilot enough lights to understand but its not how I would have tried to set it up.

-Seeing Griffins lower than some Kintaros and even lower than a non ECM Cicada actually blows my mind pretty hard.

The two things I'll add to that after reading everyone else's opinions on the subject:

-Please look closely at 35 ton lights, I think they can be more accurately placed and lots of people have made suggestions on how/why.

-CTF-IM and non-3D CTF's in general are just too low for my liking. But especially the IM it has spent many many months of this game's lifetime as one of the best mechs pre-clans. It didn't suddenly become that bad despite all the weapon nerfs.

[Vassago Rain]

Sensible enough tier list, but it really shows how dire the IS heavy and medium (with some notable exceptions) selections are.

My only comment is: why are the vindicators considered tier 4? They're easily worse than even cicadas, and centurion sized to boot. If ever there was a tier 5 mech, vindicator's it. There're good reasons you never see them.

Also, you forgot to put the raven hero on your tier list. Guess it's just that bad.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 30 September 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[Mothykins]

Please let the K2 get PPC buffs so people stop using it as a Ballistic carrier. I: (And maybe the Jester?)

[Soul Tribunal]

I'm surprised actually that any of the BJ's made it as far as Tier 3. They are like a lot of other mechs rare, because they tend to be more niche.
While they can mount some funny weapons at times, practically speaking unlike the SDH, they struggle to punch above their weight class.
I still play mine, but they are more rare now as everyone pushes to better chassis...

-ST

[Jonathan Paine]

As a whole, the list is not terribad.
One thing really leaps out - Locusts not being sub tier 5. These mechs have no jump capability, little armor, no extra speed, have hitboxes that are easy to damage. Even for the ones that have decent hardpoints, they lack the tonnage to use them. The lack of internal engine heat sinks add insult to injury. Please relegate them all.

[Mobile Ordnance Platform]

come on now, surely all the locusts should be tier 5 ?

they are all just as delicate as each other regardless of hardpoints, they all need every bit of help and advantage as they can get
please lets not segregate the 1E and 3M from the other varients, i feel thats a unfair discrimination for this particular chassis

on any other mech the hardpoints would matter of course but on the locust it should be the one exception
locust is one mech where its chassis rules its function over anything else

Edited by GamerGirlGundam, 30 September 2014 - 11:35 PM.