647 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Seems like a good list.

I think the Catapult CPLT-A1 needs to be put down a tier as the 3 more popular builds are....
-100% LRM boats:
Require quite a bit of team work and the fact the enemy can make the right moves to make you do 0 damage that game. Effective in only some situations but it has a min range and most mechs that get within it will bring hell.

Build: "6 x LRM 5" "6 x LRM 5 + Artimes" " 4 x LRM 5, 2 x LRM 10"

-100% SRM boats
Opposite end of the spectrum, It has a max range which can be effectively counted, and if the guidance system is streaks then you will have a problem if the enemy has ECM or AMS. Good when the universe aligns like the LRM builds but it has problems outside of the window of opportunity.

Builds: "6 x SRM 6", "6 x SRM 4 + A", "2 x SRM 6+A, 4 x SRM 2 + A", "6 x SSRM 2".

-Balanced range missile boats
Having decent long range and short range, It is worse at both ranges then the above mechs but unlike them they can handle within min or LRM and max of SRM range.

Builds: "4 x SRM 4 + 2 x LRM 15", "4 x SRM 2+A + 2 x LRM 15+A", "4 x SSRM 2 + 2 x LRM 15" (best Champion mech!)
"4 x LRM 5+A, 2 x SSRM 2", etc.

These builds all share 1 thing in common, no back up weapons. No energy weapons to use after you run out of ammo or no tag to support your LRM builds or SSRM builds. I think the Catapult A1 doesn't deserve to be at it's current tier.


The Stalker STK-4N.... this will have a smaller explanation then what I said for A1...

It's worthless compared to the other stalkers. Only reason people buy it is they are a die hard stalker fan (like me!) who gotta catch'm all, you got so much C-bills (and MC) in this game that you own literally every other mech and the last option is your saving for a stalker and your first one is the cheapest one.

It has no advantage at all over the other stalkers BESIDES the price (and if you are a player who goes to private matches with friends and play MW: O with 100% stock mechs then I guess that works as well...).
Hard points are worse then any other stalker. The only ones it has simular with is the 3H (which has 20 tube launcher in the arm, thus advantage) and Misery (but it has a ballistic, you can create fantastic builds with this that differ from other stalkers).
I think this may need to be tier 5 with the best perks available and maybe possibly a hardpoint re-do when the stalkers get a weapon model make over, maybe make it have double the energy in the torso's making it have total of 8 E, 3 M hardpoints?
Getting off track here, make it tier 5, it's no more likely to be used then any other stalker at it's tier.

Banshee (in general) seem a bit to high... if not then the hero is to low.

I love the banshee's, it was love at first drive. I only had single heatsinks and all standard stuff and I got a 800 damage game. I just changed some weapons around into a medium laser boat with 2 large lasers I think. I love it. But I think the hero one is a bit better then the others and are not used as often due to the fact its' the 2nd most expensive premium in game with a similar banshee being available for c-bills. I think they should all be the same tier minus the all out energy one, which should be lower.


Atlas K versus RS.

I heard a lot of bad things about the RS and I only ever see RS's and DDC's, rarely seeing D's and K's. When I asked around for which I should buy, K, and RS I heard everyone say I should get the RS. The RS has the extra energy in the arms which I heard was a real game changer and the K was pretty lame. Dual AMS is not that good compared to an ECM + AMS.

Think those 2 should be switched around.


Hunchie 4P...

Ever since clan invasion, I never seen this thing around. The nova can do a better job doing the same damage (or more), better range, jumpjets, and better cooling. I think it should be a tier lower.. unless it is getting anything special for the medium laser bonus, no ghost heat perk, or cool down effect.

My main problems here... I do not know why heavy metal and 733C are not at the same tier however I do not know why all of them are together (with 733P lower tier)

[HarlekinEO]

I think that the pro gamer have no idea.

Atlas 7K is the best running Atlas for me. But they have restricted weapons usability. Even with ECM of the DDC, they are crap on difficult terrain. I would rate them lower, as they are now and the K Varaiant same as RS(C).
The Golden Boy is definitely not better than the 19 or 20, because of Arm Angle and Engine/Heatsink Limitation. Shadow Hawks I find overrated. Everything applies probably just for the Meta Game and/or with certain loadout. All in all you rate Laser/Missile Variants with high weapons usability lower then ridgid Ballistic's. I dont understand this, but this is part of stupid "Standfußball" Meta Game. I think firing in motion without exposing your CT is a big plus. But you dont find much motion in casual Teamgames.

All right, they can buff the Awesomes further. I'm prefer them anyway.

Edited by HarlekinEO, 01 October 2014 - 02:31 AM.

[Valdae Levien]

Pretty happy with this list. But just to comment on the Mechs I've owned:

• Raven H - not on here..? Probably should be T3/4
  
• Banshee 3E - My heart tells me this needs an increase from T3 to T2
  
• Atlas BH - Decrease from T2 to T3/4. It sucks, and it shouldn't.
  
• Victor 9K- Decrease from T1 to T3

General observations...

• I think the Kintaro GB is T4, and the KTO19 is T5
  
• No Cicada 3M in T1/2?
  
• Expected the Ilya to be T2. It's still a killer.

[Voyager I]

The AS7-K is objectively the worst Atlas. It does nothing you cannot do better in another variant, with the AS7-D being the same thing except with another missile hardpoint instead of the second AMS. The D-DC is a better brawler or LRM boat if you want to do an LRM Atlas for some reason, the RS does better energy builds with its arm hardpoints, and the K even sucks if you just need a third chassis to round out your masteries because it's also several million c-bills more expensive than the others.

I mean, it's not dysfunctional but "dual AMS" is not even close to being a good enough gimmick to justify an Assault variant.

Edited by Voyager I, 01 October 2014 - 02:36 AM.

[Sp4rtan]

NRP, on 30 September 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Meh. Clan mechs get too much nerfing. That's why I didn't drop any money on Wave 2.

it's all about marketing my friend! but still clan mechs are op that's why they cost a lot of c bills (or mc) (or $)

[Elizander]

I really hope the Awesome 8Q retains enough heat quirks that still allow me to use 2 ER PPCs and MLs comfortably, even if it's to specific weapons. I'll probably miss my 4 ER Large Awesome 9M if it gets a nerf. That thing can't overheat even in Tera Therma.

I know this is quirk pass, but I'd really love it if I can get my Pretty Baby one energy hard point in the right torso so that it can be like... you know, a normal Awesome.

Edited by Elizander, 01 October 2014 - 02:56 AM.

[Jacob Side]

Do PGI and the comp players rate more of the clan mechs in the tier 1-2 rang or are there only a few clan mechs that make this cut also?

What factors make a mech tier 1 or 2? Is it the ability to do high alphas, ballistic/energy hard point location, the ability to run meta builds...etc?

[JayKay17]

First I compliment you for your new information politics. Now we get some insights why and how some decisions are made. It is now far easier to accept them. The downside for you is naturally you have to live with the feedback.

Now some feedback to the list:
Overall looks good to me. There are some points, so.

Lights:
RVN-3L still a heavily used and with ECM very good Mech belongs in the same Tier as JR-7F and FS9-E
and other FS9 and SDR-5D (ECM) one Tier up.
or push those two Tier 1 lights to Tier 2.

Tier 5 SDR, no way they are not competitive to the two LCT on Tier 4 => so Tier 5 Spider -> Tier 4

Mediums:
They are all pretty hard to play so the generally low ranking of medium Mechs is OK for me.
I just would rate the Yen-Lo-Wang as Tier 3 Mech.

Heavy:
Quite Ok for me, too, but Ilya should be Tier 2

Assault:
The tier distinction between those assault mechs looks good to me. Looking at the big picture of all Mechs and the game in general and what mechs are played, I would suggest to move all assault Mechs one tier up.

[Andross Deverow]

Black Ivan, on 01 October 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

IMO the Boar's Head needs to be a higher Tier.

The BH is basically a 100 ton light mech within 2 minutes of any match. The first thing to go is the right arm/torso then youre armed like a commando the BH is where it is simply because it has Hero status. In all actuality it could be a tier 4 or 5 with its "Atlas" status. As a matter of fact all of the Atlas should be tier 4 in my opinion except for the ones that get c-bill/exp bonuses i guess, those maybe tier 3. The things are just not durable in MWO but they should be.

Regards

[Samophlange]

At first glance the list seems to explain a lot about my lack of success. I have a ton of mechs in the Tier 4 and 5 list. I've been playing Dragons, Hunchies and Awesomes from the beginning and my K/D rating shows it. Then...I moved on the TRDs. Yay! Almost as bad.
But, I can see why mastering the SHDs was so easy by comparison. I'm looking forward to the adjustments!

[Tarzilman]

Thank you for the table. I'm pretty surprised that we see those information so shortly after the first road map post.
Thumbs up!

Now my feedback regarding the heavy table:
I strongly disagree with the Quickdraw placement! There isn't any quickdraw comparable to Jagermechs or even all Orion variants.
If this is your viewpoint I must play a totally different game.
The Quickdraw is a full-non-viable mech with every of its variants. To see the 5K in the tier 3 list in a row with the Ilya Muromets must be a joke. I've made a vast number of matches together with a friend who's playing an IM while I played all Quickdraw variants including the 5K. It's simply not comparable in no way. Please reconsider it's position in this table to give this mech some nice quirks it URGENTLY needs!
It's enormeous CT alone makes me go mad when playing it. At the same time I have very good matches with all of my Thunderbolt variants. While I'm happy to see they will get a great improvement, I am totally confused about the fact that you seem to believe that most of the Quickdraw variants are better than the Thunderbolts.

Referring to the Assault list the Awesome seems to be in its right place. Though I don't understand the position of the 8R. It definetly is one of my best mechs but I can use the same build on the 8T. So the 8t should either be moved to the tier 3 list too or the 8R should be moved to the Tier 5 list. Maybe the truth lies in the middle and both variants belong to the tier 4 slot.

Well. While the Awesome-thing might be bean counting, the more important thing in my opinion is the Quickdraw placement. Please reconsider this. All Quickdraw variants need to be fully improved!

Edited by Tarzilman, 01 October 2014 - 04:11 AM.

[Motörhead]

Yay spider 5K is on T5, can't wait to see what it's gonna get
give me 2x Ammo per Ton so I can do this with 4000 mg rounds

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d7673c1651a4180

pleaseeeee

Edited by fx8320, 01 October 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

Sp4rtan, on 01 October 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

it's all about marketing my friend! but still clan mechs are op that's why they cost a lot of c bills (or mc) (or $)

Not really. A lot of hero mechs are actually quite bad and per mech cost significantly more than the clan mechs. Also when people (i.e. people who know what they're talking about) say clan mechs are OP, they're really talking about 3 mechs - Stormcrow, Timberwolf and the Direwolf. The rest are either outclassed by IS tier 1s or some (in the case of the adder) are just outright bad.

Edited by Iyica de Tylmarande, 01 October 2014 - 04:35 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Jacob Side, on 01 October 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

Do PGI and the comp players rate more of the clan mechs in the tier 1-2 rang or are there only a few clan mechs that make this cut also?

What factors make a mech tier 1 or 2? Is it the ability to do high alphas, ballistic/energy hard point location, the ability to run meta builds...etc?

Many bad clan mechs are comparable to some of the best IS mechs.

Summoner is terrible, but it's not that far behind the cata 3D.

Power in MWO is about the following checklist.

High weapon mounts?
Jets? How many?
Are you 35, 55, 75, or 100 tons?
ECM?
Can you boat ballistics or missiles?
'Beneficial' geometry, and/or hit boxes?

Edited by Vassago Rain, 01 October 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[Motörhead]

PS : the tier lists really make sense in general.

Edited by fx8320, 01 October 2014 - 04:26 AM.

[deadmedo]

They probably should (if they haven't done it already) get the statistics from their database and compare which mechs have the best/worst k/d ratio, damage, which are used the most, which the least and based on that categorize mechs.
Probably the most objectively way of rankings mechs

Statistics don't lie .

Edited by deadmedo, 01 October 2014 - 04:33 AM.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

Vassago Rain, on 01 October 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

Many bad clan mechs are comparable to some of the best IS mechs.

Summoner is terrible, but it's not that far behind the cata 3D.

Summoner was never that bad, it was just overshadowed by the TImber Wolf. The Nova however is quite badly outclassed by the Shadow Hawk and the best Adder build is probably around tier 3.

[pulupulu]

lol, out of 20 mechs i have from the list

13 of them is tier 4 and below, 4 of them tier 2~3, the rest are victor.

My mech garage will be arranging a big celebration party for their new promotion.

There need to be a tier 6, and locust alone will be in it.

Edited by pulupulu, 01 October 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[Hydrocarbon]

Destruction of a Clan Side Torso:

Complete crap IMO, not severe enough. IS mechs DIE when their XL engine ST crits get blown up. That means a movement penalty of -100%, internal heatsink penalty of -100%, and external heatsink penalty of -100%. If I'm driving my car and 20% of my engine blows off, not only does cooling capacity suffer more than 20% but it definitely suffers at least a 20% movement penalty (HINT: it's usually -100%).

So you think losing half their weapons arsenal suck? An IS mech with XL loses EVERY WEAPON when a ST is blown off. Most clan mechs have more weapons in ONE ARM/ST than most IS mechs carry overall.

[Vezm]

Can we please nerf omni-mechs, ie the TW, in a way that doesn't crap all over the fact that omni-mechs are supposed to be more customisable than the IS mechs. It's pretty BS that IS have more options when the whole omni factor is options. Omni doesn't mean clan weapons, it means options.

So much for keeping the 'feel' of clan mechs. I'd much prefer more weapon nerfs than a system that makes all 3 of my TW's more similar due to wanting JJ's OR extra hard points. Just kill JJ's for the Prime and C entirely.

Edited by Vezm, 01 October 2014 - 04:43 AM.