647 replies to this topic

[tucsonspeed6]

Lots of folks arguing the placement of the Firestarters. I have to agree. How can they be in tier 3 with the Deaths Knell? It's a slightly faster mech with 2 fewer weapon hardpoints and no JJs. That doesn't make sense. Either the DK needs to be tier 4, the Firestarters need to be tier 2, or a combination of both options needs to happen.

[Ugg]

Russ,

Thanks for the list. Can we get a brief write up on the methodology PGI used for the rankings? And is this list a one time thing for the quirk pass? or will it be maintained as the game "meta" evolves?

I ask because this seems like a good start for BV type balancing. Just sayin...

Thanks again.

[CDLord HHGD]

What is the defined purpose of the tier separation?

My mind is railing against the concept of mech tiers because you risk the meta defining it which many of us avoid which may relegate us to the "****** low tier mechs". Before I extrapolate further, I want to read more on the tier theory.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

tucsonspeed6, on 01 October 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Lots of folks arguing the placement of the Firestarters. I have to agree. How can they be in tier 3 with the Deaths Knell? It's a slightly faster mech with 2 fewer weapon hardpoints and no JJs. That doesn't make sense. Either the DK needs to be tier 4, the Firestarters need to be tier 2, or a combination of both options needs to happen.

20kph isn't slightly faster.

[warner2]

cdlord, on 01 October 2014 - 04:46 AM, said:

What is the defined purpose of the tier separation?

My mind is railing against the concept of mech tiers because you risk the meta defining it which many of us avoid which may relegate us to the "****** low tier mechs". Before I extrapolate further, I want to read more on the tier theory.

Wut? Use what 'mechs you want to use. Why would you care about avoiding the "meta" 'mechs?

Edited by warner2, 01 October 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[Jules Vernes]

I will repeat my question from outreachhpg here:

I would just be very interested in how it was decided that for example the SHD-2D is Tier 2. Based on what?

Without knowing the criteria you used to categorize the mechs, there can be no useful discussion. So, if you could give us an explanation what factors you did consider in sorting the mechs, that would be much appreciated.

[SmokinDave73]

Overall nice Tier list the suggestions I would make to edit it are;

• SHD-5M T3 -> T4 it cant compete purely on hardpoints againts the other varients.
  
• HBK-4P T3 -> T4 Not sure why this pure energy varient would be considered better then the others just on that.
  
• AWS-8R T3 -> T4 this Awesome can boat 4srm6A but does not make up for its chasis short comings.
  
• VTR-9B T1 -> T2 This Victor based on hardpoints are not tier 1 like the S and Dragon Slayer
  
• VTR-9K T1 -> T2 same as above.

There are more that I would suggest but it would make a hard case for such as the 3D being tier 1 I think it would be better in tier 2 but I see the pro's and cons agints it.

[Lunaya]

There is a few things I would shuffle around but overall the tier list looks nice

Lights:
RVN-H Huginn Needs to be added to tier 5 Light Mechs, I rarely see the thing and when I do they are lucky to pull 200 damage without an artillery.

Ravens in General need a hitbox pass but that is another problem all together.

The rest of the lights look pretty good but I am not a Locust pilot and refuse on the fact they are to fragile.

Medium:
The lack of Tier 1 really shows me something about Mediums, a class I prefer to play and that they are all lacking something to which I agree.

The SDH-2D, 2D2 and GRF-3M are probably your medium Tier 1's if I were to put any there.

Heavy:
I'd move the Muramets up to Tier 2 personally, I can still put up good damage on par with my Firebrand.

CPLT-A1 should be moved to tier 4, lack of Energy hardpoints is a major flaw and makes it ammo dependent and friendly dependent for LRM action.

Assault:
Looks fine overall, I hope with the Buff to Jump Jets coming my Victors wont be the garbage I see them as though. They were good until all I could do with 4 Jump Jets is hover off the ground.

[Vassago Rain]

Jules Vernes, on 01 October 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

I will repeat my question from outreachhpg here:

I would just be very interested in how it was decided that for example the SHD-2D is Tier 2. Based on what?

Without knowing the criteria you used to categorize the mechs, there can be no useful discussion. So, if you could give us an explanation what factors you did consider in sorting the mechs, that would be much appreciated.

Common sense.

[jper4]

so my guess in one of these threads was right. of my 51 mechs 31 are tier 4 and 5 and only 6 in tier 1 and 2 of which 4 of them i do horrible in regularly

[Jules Vernes]

Vassago Rain, on 01 October 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Common sense.

What?

Just looking at the reddit thread I see confused discussions about what mech should be where, considering many different criteria. It really depends on what you are looking at. Common sense does help, but you still need to know what you are talking about. Otherwise discussion is pretty useless, don't you think?

[Soul Tribunal]

I personally think the Atlas (since I use both them and the DW) needs to drop a tier each. Their lack of Hardpoints is what messes them up a lot, coupled with the fact that they lose so much firepower on damage in comparison to other Assaults.
They definitely could use some internal structure strength for their ballistics side, to help preserve what hardpoints they do own. I used to speak highly of them, but as I play them more and more I come to realize that in the grand scheme of things, they are nothing more than a 100Ton Punching bag, that draws fire.

-ST

[ToMang07]

It would be AWESOME if you guys just focused on making the actual gameplay better, and stopped frigging with chit that aint broke.

[Sp4rtan]

Well, once there was only dark. If you ask me, the light's winning.

Edited by Sp4rtan, 01 October 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[Gyrok]

braveheart95, on 30 September 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Why are the Vindicators tier four? They're trash, objectively worse than the other mediums by every single measure. The Wolverine 6K is rightly put in tier five and even that's outright better than them. It is immeasurably worse than the 55 tonners it shares tier four with. Before someone says ''BUT I GET 1.1 K/D IN MY VINDICATOR AND DID 300 DAMAGE ONCE'' try to be objective. It's slow, big, fragile, criminally undergunned (they're low slung at that), has a blinding cockpit, poor hitboxes, and was released with no redeeming quirks. It's going to need HUGE bonuses from the upcoming quirks to be relevant because currently it's tier 6.

You are right, I am having a hard time getting 300 damage in my vindis....

LOL...the Vindicator is not bad at all...

Try Gauss + 2MPL on the 1X

Try ERPPC + 3ML + XL295 on the 1AA

each with 1-2 JJs to suit your taste...

[Gyrok]

Vezm, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

Can we please nerf omni-mechs, ie the TW, in a way that doesn't crap all over the fact that omni-mechs are supposed to be more customisable than the IS mechs. It's pretty BS that IS have more options when the whole omni factor is options. Omni doesn't mean clan weapons, it means options.

So much for keeping the 'feel' of clan mechs. I'd much prefer more weapon nerfs than a system that makes all 3 of my TW's more similar due to wanting JJ's OR extra hard points. Just kill JJ's for the Prime and C entirely.

They are buffing IS mechs!!!!!!

(SHUT UP)

[DarthPeanut]

I like the TIer table for the most part. Everything is pretty close to where I would have guessed it should be.

The Firebrand being up a Tier over others seems a little odd but maybe I have not found the advantage to it other than the Cbill boost. I do ok in it but I do not see it having an edge over DD or S, for me at least.

Agree with some who said not all Victors should be Tier 1. Once they negative quirks are gone though we shall see. Been a while since I played them much because of the nerfs.


I look forward to seeing what kind of quirks are used! IS mechs really needed this and very excited to see it come into play. Great use of the quirks system.

[Triban]

I think for Assaults the DDC should be T1 and the Stalker 3F/5M should be T3 due to heat issues with lasers. The 4N should be T5. No one uses it. Ever.

Heavies I would move the CPLT-J and maybe A1 down one tier. That huge CT makes it just as suboptimal ad the dragons.

Mediums, I agree the SHD-2H and 5M should maybe be bumped down to T3 with the rest of the lot. The 2D2 is still a sweet ride.

Edited by Triban, 01 October 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[Sadist Cain]

Religious atlas nutter since closed beta. I agree with where he sits.

Not sure about the JR-F sitting at tier 1 though... as much hassle as they can be I wouldn't of placed them that high

[kapusta11]

• Locust and Commandos are automatically tier 10 mechs because it takes 1 shot from good player to kill it.
  
• All Hunchbacks are automatically tier 5 mechs because of absolutely terrible hitboxes.
  
• Griffins and Shadowhawk 2K are tier 3 mechs at best
  
• All Dragons are automatically tier 5 because of absolutely terrible hitboxes.
  
• All Quickdraws are automatically tier 5 because of absolutely terrible hitboxes.
  
• All mechs that don't have JJs are automatically -1 in their tier rank.
  
• All "all energy hardpoints" Assaults and Heavies are automatically tier 10.
  
• Atlases, Battlemasters and Awesomes are automatically -1 in their tier rank because of absolutely terrible hitboxes.
  
• Missile mechs are -1 in their tier because missiles (LRMs and SRMs alike) suck in competitive play.

In other words, how about we:

• Fix Heatscale so that energy hardpoints are not useless in certain circumstances/most of the time and we could reconsider energy nerfs being made in the past.
  
• Rework missiles so that missile hardpoints are not useless in general (faster projectile speed/even out armor and internal structure to make crit seeking meaningful for SRMs and faster projectile speed/faster lock times but greatly reduced missile clustering for LRMs, increased clustering for LRMs with Artemis or NARC while ECM being able to nullify said systems, you know, like in TT)
  
• Remap hitboxes on problematic mechs
  
• Scale down some mechs
  
• Increase internal structure HP for DOA lights

Edited by kapusta11, 01 October 2014 - 07:03 AM.