647 replies to this topic

[Macksheen]

Yeah the measly two jets on the Jester don't make it a jumping fiend, certainly not after a JJ pass. Give it its third quirk - and better yet, make it jumping related so those 2 JJ get a bit more lift / acceleration / turn.

@Yoseful ... if what you're saying is true and the Jester will have Large Laser quirks that won't work on ERLL or LPL ...then yeah, that kinda blows. If that's going to be the case, I'd ask to separate them in terms of ghost heat groupings as well.

[Joe Mallad]

Hoax415, on 17 October 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

You just showed an example that fits exactly what they are saying.

The 733C is Tier-2 with Jump Jets. T2 = 2 Weapon Quirks - 1 Weapon Quirk for JJ = 1 Weapon Quirk.

The non weapon quirks are added on a per chassis basis to help mechs based on hitbox problems mainly it seems so far. They don't apply to the T5 = 5 quirks system, that is only for weapon quirks.

Look at any of the Hunchbacks if you don't believe me.



I think the answer is already there. We've seen the LCT-1V and Dragon-1N specify ER and the FANG specifies Pulse. Its likely that Large Laser means Large Laser only. Though we won't be 100% sure until Russ tells us. There's a slim chance that "Large Laser" means any of the LL family but signs point to no. Someone tweet the man.



Yes I certainly hope so. Obviously Quirks and Modules should stack multiplicatively as well as these double value Quirks. Another thing for Russ to confirm.

ive already talked with him and he confimed that if it says (just LL) than that perk is just for the LL. If it says PPC, its just for the PPC, if it says ML its just for that, MPL is just for that and so on. but if it just says "energy" that is a quirk that is good for ALL energy based weapons. He also confirmed that weapon module %s for range and cooldown DO stack on top of range and cooldown "quirks"

Macksheen, on 17 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yeah the measly two jets on the Jester don't make it a jumping fiend, certainly not after a JJ pass. Give it its third quirk - and better yet, make it jumping related so those 2 JJ get a bit more lift / acceleration / turn.

@Yoseful ... if what you're saying is true and the Jester will have Large Laser quirks that won't work on ERLL or LPL ...then yeah, that kinda blows. If that's going to be the case, I'd ask to separate them in terms of ghost heat groupings as well.

yup, thats exactly what im saying bud.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 17 October 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Macksheen]

Yoseful Mallad, on 17 October 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

yup, thats exactly what im saying bud.

Is that comfirmed anywhere?

I wonder if the quirks even make the LL as useful as an ERLL ... or if you'd still be better mounting ERLLs ... or something else entirely (LPL) ... ah well.

As I said above, definite blow-potential.

[Clint Steel]

Stated this in a thread, will repeat it here.

My statment is based on this quote by Russ's Quote: "Keep in mind that having JJ or ECM will remove a quirk - hence why we have two on the Jester "

The problem with that is the mechs that have JJ, or ECM only made it to the Tier that they are in because of said JJ or ECM.

Take the Atlas D-DC, without its ECM it would have never made it to Tier 2, so having ECM already assured that it would not get as many/good of quirks. So its a double negative to say that possessing an ECM also means it gets one less quirk on top of that (the upwards Tier movement).

[DarthPeanut]

Curious to see the quirks on the Jagers, Phracts, Shawks, Cicada, etc... all those mechs that I pilot regularly.

Looking at some of the quirks already posted I am very hopeful.

[Bront]

Chemie, on 17 October 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

I am mixed here. I can see this will help some of the hopeless mechs, but many seems useless.

The "buff" to the Jenner D is 10% SRM range. First, most run SSRM and second, anyone who is firing SRM from 270M out is crazy so extra range brings nothing.

I run 2 SRM4s in my D, and I love the change. Most light mechs are moving from SSRMs to SRMs, which are easier to aim and fire when going fast, and pack more punch where you want them too. I never really liked running SSRMs on my Jenner-D even when they did the extra damage.

[Bront]

Macksheen, on 17 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yeah the measly two jets on the Jester don't make it a jumping fiend, certainly not after a JJ pass. Give it its third quirk - and better yet, make it jumping related so those 2 JJ get a bit more lift / acceleration / turn.

While I agree with the Jester and Huggin, what about the Shadowhawk? Most only have 3 JJs stock. Same with many Highlanders. Where is the line for having too many?

It's an odd slope, particularly since JJs often put a mech in the teir it's in, but in many ways, JJs are worth more than a single quirk. It's Reduced falling damage, increased mobility, able to access areas other mechs can't, and damage spreading all rolled into one. Even 1 or 2. Remember, this is pass 1. I'm sure they'll have to tweak things a bit.

[Felio]

Looking at the list, mechs with ECM and JJ already seem to be tiered higher than similar mechs without. So I am really wondering why those mechs are having two or even more quirks subtracted -- one for having ECM/JJ, and one or more for those attributes landing them in a higher tier.

[Macksheen]

Bront, on 17 October 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

While I agree with the Jester and Huggin, what about the Shadowhawk? Most only have 3 JJs stock. Same with many Highlanders. Where is the line for having too many?

It's an odd slope, particularly since JJs often put a mech in the teir it's in, but in many ways, JJs are worth more than a single quirk. It's Reduced falling damage, increased mobility, able to access areas other mechs can't, and damage spreading all rolled into one. Even 1 or 2. Remember, this is pass 1. I'm sure they'll have to tweak things a bit.

Here's hoping

And on the Highlander - I guess they don't get any Victor love

[Bront]

Macksheen, on 17 October 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Here's hoping

And on the Highlander - I guess they don't get any Victor love

Victor is getting all it's movement penalties removed. It was a beast before it, and it's not horid now. We'll see if it needs a mild quirk once the other mechs get theirs.

[HANGMAN1962]

ok so I was wondering ware do's the cent 9ah and the atlas 9s fit in?

[Macksheen]

Bront, on 17 October 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Victor is getting all it's movement penalties removed. It was a beast before it, and it's not horid now. We'll see if it needs a mild quirk once the other mechs get theirs.

Yeah that's what I mean - the Highlander had a bit of a nerf bat when the Victors got hit too, IIRC.

[Macksheen]

I am confused on the JJ thing....

So, Victors are T1 - no buffs for them. SHD are tier 2, but have JJ (which the victors also have) ... so no buffs for them either?

I'm not sure you need to go crazy with buffs anyway, just trying to follow the logic. If a SHD didn't have JJ, it wouldn't be in the tier it is in ... sure I'll buy that JJ is better than a quirk, but what's been said means that any T2 with JJ won't get a boost? Is that right?

[Mothykins]

By the ECM logic and JJ logic, the 3L gets nothing, despite the only reason its in the tier it is in is because of the ECM. this also applies to the Jester, which is double hit because it also has Chassis based Yaw and arm pitch Debuffs BECAUSE of the Jump Jets.

This does not seem logical, as having Jump Jets and ECM are the reasons they are in their respective tier. The CDA 3M or Atlas DDC are both fine examples of this, as, other than the ECM, they don't have any real hardpoint or loadout advantages over their other chassis.

Edited by Cavale, 17 October 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[Creovex]

Cavale, on 17 October 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

By the ECM logic and JJ logic, the 3L gets nothing, despite the only reason its in the tier it is in is because of the ECM. this also applies to the Jester, which is double hit because it also has Chassis based Yaw and arm pitch Debuffs BECAUSE of the Jump Jets.

This does not seem logical, as having Jump Jets and ECM are the reasons they are in their respective tier. The CDA 3M or Atlas DDC are both fine examples of this, as, other than the ECM, they don't have any real hardpoint or loadout advantages over their other chassis.

I think you are wrong. Didn't Russ state that all NEGATIVE quirks were being removed thus the Jester is NOT being doubke hit as you state.

[Gyrok]

Umm...say hello to god mode for IS mechs...

Seriously...clan quirks cannot come soon enough if ALL IS mechs are getting buffs like this.

[Gorgo7]

Seriously...clan quirks can wait at least one invasion cycle before anything approaching a quirk rears it's head for the clans.

[Kirkland Langue]

Yoseful Mallad, on 17 October 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

If a mech has a quirk that says "energy weapon range, energy weapon heat gen or anything that just says "energy weapon", its a general perk that mean all energy based weapons will get that perk. If its a specific perk for a specific weapon it will read something like this... Large pulse range + (whatever %) or ERLL range, and so on. I hope that helped?

Doesn't GH count LL, ERLL, and LPL as the same thing?

[Tastian]

Trede, on 17 October 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Um...the CTF-3D is the cataphract I see most often in competetive play. Watch the vids of RHOD and MRBC drops, tell me the CTF-3D is no longer relevant again.



Again, these lists were compiled with the aid of COMPETETIVE players, most of whom run SRMs in Jenners for accuracy since you can't aim streaks (if they even run SRMs...really the 6ML jenner is king). Also of note, the IS mechs are getting quirks based on their STOCK loadouts...think "The hunchbacks have been designed to carry an AC20 for the last 200 years...so we made them REALLY good at it"

You mean, MOST IS mechs are getting quirks based on their stock loadouts. The Dragon 1N has ER-LL quirks but only Medium Lasers stock. The Kintaro 18 has 1 LRM5 but 3 SRM6 stock and is getting a LRM5 quirk (seemingly because the Champion version has 5 LRM5s).

[TheMadTypist]

I am curious what caused you to consider the Thunderbolt a skirmisher- it's not very fast, and it has very tank-like hitboxes if you keep the twisting up. What did you look at as far as designating one of the different roles for an individual 'mech? What differentiates a skirmisher from a support, or from a brawler?

Going by the "gunbag" comment and the examples given, are roles across multiple variants of the same chassis going to be intentionally given more or less equal representation, or are you going by what the individual 'mech does best without the quirks- like, if all three of a given chassis are by default LRM fit 'mechs, will they all be featured as support chassis, or will other roles be mixed in to intentionally differentiate them and maybe get some SRM builds involved? Or, in terms of a the hunchback- two of your examples are already brawlers, does that mean that when looking at the -4J and -4P you would intentionally avoid the brawler designation?

Also, has there been any consideration into how future 'mechs will be quirked? Will we see 'mechs come in with predetermined roles, "tier" values, and respective quirks, or will they run quirk-dry for awhile after release to determine proper tiering?

Many questions, sorry. I likes the datums. November 4th is going to be really awesome though- new clan medium and overhauled IS chassis! Makes me wish one of the emoticons was a little AWS, so I could properly indicate the upcoming Awesome.