647 replies to this topic

[Sorbic]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 20 October 2014 - 12:25 AM, said:

As a 2-3 weeks duration very new player whose first purchase was the CAT bundle, after finishing the basics and getting the proper canned builds I will say I have never ever trade my jump jets for for anything and would happily void any buffs for JJ on my K2. I never pop tarted, but without reading anything it was easy to "feel" how even 1 jj affected survivability and rate of turn - I later read how this is a problem that they are having a hard time fixing.

SO my point is whether by intentional design or "exploiting" a "BUG", I am happy that I have learned to jump turn and spread damage and easily see where that has buffed my game play by more than 15% in any area.

On a related note they are nerfing JJ turn rates in the near future. And glossing past the fact that the JJ's equation is what landed mechs in their respective tier, already costing them a quirk or two, how many people won't use the JJ spam exploit? Whether it's because they don't know about it, chose not to exploit, or whatever other reason it sucks to even consider using it as a reason to deny them a quirk.

I know squat about fixing the actual code but it does seem they could at least hit the exploit with a penalty by making JJ's immediately start generating full heat when spammed. Maybe a heat penalty for tapping? Would making the landing animation only kick in after a certain fall speed help? And, now I've wandered off topic... weee

[Frytrixa]

Wintersdark, on 20 October 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

ERLL+Module(Range)=759.4m If you're comparing one with a module, compare the other with a module too.

Anyways:

This allows the mech to utilize Large Lasers in a role normally filled by the ERLL. However, the LL is much cooler, as well as sporting a shorter beam duration. As you allude, you'd be silly to mount ERLL's in this case... but this isn't a weapon specific change, it's a variant specific change. It only applies to that particular variant; the ERLL is still a perfectly valid weapon with it's own role outside that variant.

It was the intention to compare a boosted LL with a ER stock version. As you wrote, it allows the mech to utilize the LL as a ER...
Sure it's chassis specific, I just mentioned that instead making an an existing weapon less worth it (ER) choose another weapon to buff which don't "replace" a higher Tier energy weapon.

[Chaldon]

These quirks are getting complicated.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Chaldon, on 21 October 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

These quirks are getting complicated.

Looking at the HBK-4G as an example, they seem to be both more broad (which is good, if you want to build it with something other than an AC/20 and MLs) and still retaining the specific AC/20 buff (which is also good).

I like the idea that the first couple of quirks are for a family of weapon systems, with a couple of specific quirks added.

While it may be a bit more complicated, it allows for some flexibility while rewarding an "intended" build ... all while trying to improve the effectiveness of 100+ 'mechs without making them all the same. So, yeah, I guess it is pretty complicated, but that's OK, we didn't sign up for easy.

[SgtMagor]

hey DEvs since my ability to calculate numbers is Sub-par can you have a built in calculator to take into account all the stackable weapons and modules loaded on a mech!, so I know how my weapons and mech are going to be effected with the change!

[The Boz]

Gorgo7, on 17 October 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

Seriously...clan quirks can wait at least one invasion cycle before anything approaching a quirk rears it's head for the clans.

The point of an OmniMech is that it fits everything. Since we already have "fits everything" with IS mechs, one way to differentiate IS from Clan mechs is that IS mechs get loadout specific quirks so that they're more suitable for certain, fluffy roles. For this reason, I am opposed to weapon-specific quirks for Clan mechs. Some small general buffs (like +10% total heat pool, 30% less falling damage, etc.) sure, but not something that goes against the OmniMech concept. Differentiation between IS and Clan tech should be encouraged, so long as balance can be maintained.

[warner2]

Frytrixa, on 20 October 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

I don't think that enhancing the Large Laser is the best choice it'll make the "ER Large Laser" become redundant:

• LL+Quirk(range)+Module(range) = 612,5m effective range
  
• ERLL = 675m effective range (stock)

Maybe enhancing the MLas or Pulse Version is a better choice?

That's some really nice range on the LL. I've always fancied buying a Jester.

It won't make ERLL redundant. Maybe LL becomes the better choice for this particular chassis.

[Karl Streiger]

Love the quirks - hope that the day is not far in the future - when players become nervous when a Hunchback 4g is sighted - instead of a blood less smile - and easy kill

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 October 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Summon3r]

Chaldon, on 21 October 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

These quirks are getting complicated.

these quirks are getting more awesome by the day! tho they seem very powerful and i dont drive IS mechs im hoping it will result in some cool quirks for my Summoner sometime down the road.

oh can we get a clarification on the aws-8q and its ppc bonus's... is it bonus only to ppc or erppc as well?

Edited by Summon3r, 21 October 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Hoax415]

Its PPC only. Just like "Large Laser" is LL only and will not apply to ER or Pulse.

Edited by Hoax415, 21 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Tarzilman]

For those, who still didn't get it:

Quote

IS Quirk pass update.

I spent the entire day and got about half way done implementing a global change to the initial IS Quirk pass. It always felt that phase 2 of this IS Quirk pass was going to help broaden the reach of what weapons they impacted.

Therefore I decided since the Quirk pass was delayed until Nov 4th anyhow I had time to implement these changes now.

So here is where we ended up by way of example:

Hunchback 4G - Tier 5 Brawler

Additional Armor (RT) +18
Additional Structure (RT) +12
AC/20 Range +12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Range +12.5%
AC/20 Cooldown +12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
AC/20 Velocity +12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Velocity +12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -15%
Energy Weapon Range +15%


- Yes all of the values stack with each other.
- Yes Cooldown is represented with a + symbol but that means being able to fire your weapon faster.

So you can see that we still completely accomplish our goal of making a statement that this 4G is about the AC20 and the quirks will stack in a way to make it just as effective as the previous quirk pass I teased last week. However now if you simply must take out AC2's then you will still bring in half of the ballistic benefit.

The new rule set is that each Weapon Specific quirk gives half to the specific weapon and half to the global family.


As compared to the Hunchback 4H - Tier 4 Skirmisher

Additional Armor (RT) +18
Additional Structure (RT) +12
AC/10 Range +10%
Ballistic Weapon Range +10%
AC/10 Cooldown +10%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%
Medium Laser Cooldown +10%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +10%
Medium Laser Heat Gen -10%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -10%

Your complaining (again) worked and Russ has changed something. I personally am glad that this time the changes are pretty cool (as against the repeal of the voting system thing, but thats a different topic).
I think the quirks as shown above are a good compromise between both sides arguing here. You'll still get a bonus on ballistic weapons whichever you choose, but you'll get the full bonus for the AC20/10 (4G/4H).
Now stop disagreeing!

For those, who think "Eeeew, it's getting more complicated, what is that numbers?" consider this important note:
- Yes all of the values stack with each other.


A good day, I'm really happy.
Good work, Russ. This happens, if you take the time things need (and if there's no publisher applying pressure).

Edited by Tarzilman, 21 October 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[Talrich]

The quirks, like modules, add lots of crunchy bits without adding fun. I think you're marching headlong in the wrong direction. These quirks make me less interested in playing or recruiting back my friends to play again. Particularly with my friends, undue complexity is your enemy.

Please stop developing modules and mech quirks and work on CW.

Thanks,

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Talrich, on 21 October 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

The quirks, like modules, add lots of crunchy bits without adding fun. I think you're marching headlong in the wrong direction. These quirks make me less interested in playing or recruiting back my friends to play again. Particularly with my friends, undue complexity is your enemy.

Please stop developing modules and mech quirks and work on CW.

Thanks,

While, in general, I agree that the new user experience needs to be simplified and better explained, the quirks appear to be designed to reduce the new-user pain of selecting a (currently) sub-optimal 'mech.

Modules -- particularly weapon modules -- have been identified as "end-game content" (and when one module costs more than some stock 'mechs, I tend to agree with them). By the time your friends get around to needing the small buff that they produce, they should have figured out the deeper mechanics of the game.

Edit: all that said, I do sincerely hope they focus on the new user experience (and polishing the games little issues, and improving Community Warfare) next year, after the initial phase of CW goes live, rather than something else, like a PvE or Co-Op scenario-based campaign (unless that is the new-user experience, which would actually be pretty cool).

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 21 October 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Navid A1]

Will atlas-S get any quirks as well?

[C E Dwyer]

Kirkland Langue, on 20 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Even I'll agree that the 50/50 split is a good idea.

Don't get me wrong, I still think that balance discussions should be had AFTER CW has been running for a few weeks - but since these balances are all IS, and compared against other IS mechs, it won't be completely thrown aside once CW arrives.

Of course CW will bring about one balancing issue which will have to be visited: Tonnage and Synergy. Basically players will consider what works best as a secondary, or filler, mech once they have their primary mechs selected. This will impact decision making and even if Mech A is better than Mech B - it may still be that Mech A needs perks to remain competitve against Mech B simply because Mech B has better dropdeck synergy with Mech C than Mech A does (and, of course, Mech C is the desired primary mech for the drop deck).

Myself I think its a cop out, and another cave to the whiney part of the community, which seems not to want to play a proper Mechwarrior/battletech, game and seems to prefer stompy robots and ignore canon

[Butane9000]

Can we get the final quirks released over the next couple of weeks for each chassis. Let's say one a day?

[SirSlaughter]

The oxide doesn't really need lots of quirks because it is currently the light most played in the RHOD

[Triban]

I'm speculating (from the chassis competition and personal play) that the Victor will become a Tier 3-4 mech compared to others and will need to have some form of quirks (not just a negative flush) after the release.

I'm also specualting that the Jester and other CPLT will need to be buffed further (CT buff PLEASE) or they will remain trash.

I also speculate that after the quirk pass they will have to take a second, long, hard look at the double penalization for JJs on certain chassis-specific mechs.

Edited by Triban, 25 October 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[focuspark]

I remember seeing more examples for works than just the escapes given for the two HBK chassis. Where have they gone? Does anyone know? I'm I crazy?

[PitchBlackYeti]

focuspark, on 26 October 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

I remember seeing more examples for works than just the escapes given for the two HBK chassis. Where have they gone? Does anyone know? I'm I crazy?

Probably taken down for rework.