94 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

When I build a Light mech, I install the max engine size first. This does force me to make some creative decisions on what weapons to carry, but in a Light, I consider speed to be paramount.

Who here sacrifices the max KPH for that extra half-ton or ton (or more) of weight for extra goodies?

I do the same with armor though I might shave a half-ton from my head depending on the mech (and if I feel the risk is worth it).

Not saying either way is right or wrong, I'm just curious. Discuss.

[Joseph Mallan]

Not yet... Wait till the 3060s!

[UnsafePilot]

To the subject: No, they're not too fast. Speed is their strength and it's a good one to have i think.

To:

cdlord, on 29 September 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

Who here sacrifices the max KPH for that extra half-ton or ton (or more) of weight for extra goodies?

I've run firestarters with max engines and with a few notches less than max and I've always found that I liked the speed more than the extra carrying capacity.

[Impyrium]

In my opinion, yes. In fact, I think the entire combat engine is too fast- it really needs to be going at 70-80% of the current speed to make sense scale wise. But that's my simulator-realism love talking.

Problem with lights is that they need that speed in a game like this. People try and deny it, but the fact is this game has a big twitch shooter element to it, and anything as lightly armoured as a light BattleMech is easy to pop unless it has the ability to leave someone's sights quickly.

What I really wish is that lights, and I suppose all 'Mechs, had more options for viability. I'm not entirely sure how, but I wish lights could have values other than just speed. Stealth, or something like that. Other "mechs too, the 'meta', which essentially shows the one 'perfect' builds that top anything else competitively. But I suppose that all ties back into role warfare.

Edited by AUSwarrior24, 29 September 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[Zyllos]

Well, I say Battlemechs having a completely open engine customization is bad for balance. But, if speed is affected in a negative direction, with how weapons converge onto a single point, this game would be too easy.

It's all how interconnected everything is in Battletech. Effect speed, weapons have to be completely modified.

[Rando Slim]

No. Don't mess with my IS lights, its one of the only things the Clans can't match......yet.

[KuroNyra]

In my opinion, the game always had a problem about the speed.
When rolling at 50km/h, you don't need 5 second to pass on the side of a building like it's the case.

The maps are too small, the speed are slow.
I don't have the impression of running at 130km/h in my Raven.

I still like that game, but it isn't has good has the impression gaved by MMLiving Legend, PGI should really have tryied to make something more that way.

[Josef Nader]

I've run lights with below-max engines for a long time. Ever since lights lost their everything-proof shield, having a max engine on a light mech is no longer what it used to be. Honestly, as long as you play smart, building lights for firepower over speed can give you some mad returns.

For example, I started playing around with this to see how the Clan lights might function before their release and was so impressed that my Raven 4X uses this build to this day. It's still one of my better lights. It's high mounted hardpoints and extremely small, narrow frontal profile make it a phenomenally good sniper platform that is easily overlooked by larger mechs.

My OXIDE has remained largely unmodified as well, changing only when they started allowing half tons of ammo (it got a bit more armor at the cost of 50 SRMs). It's slower than advised for lights, but as a close support striker for the main battlegroup, it's a fantastic, hard hitting platform that can really devastate the enemy team.

Super fast dogfighter/scout mechs are valuable, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly the only role that light mechs can perform effectively. Lights are often overlooked in a brawl, they usually have a very low profile and great hitboxes. With all the clan mechs running around, pinpoint autocannons (the bane of a light's existence) are fewer and farther between. Are slower lights going to show up in the highest echelons of competitive play? Probably not. The meta is too established in the minds of the comp players for them to really want to experiment with lights in a different role. Are slower lights both fun and effective? Absolutely. You just need to get out of the "squirrel" headspace of their speedy cousins.

Edited by Josef Nader, 29 September 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[UrsusMorologus]

They are too fast for me, especially after Speed Tweak. I limit myself to XL 255 engines on my Spiders and Firestarters just so I can retain some fire control. That is still fast enough to avoid taking a lot of damage and my guys are still often the last man alive on the team.

[CDLord HHGD]

Scrotacus 42, on 29 September 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

No. Don't mess with my IS lights, its one of the only things the Clans can't match......yet.

Pretty sure you misunderstood me. BWE...

[Mechteric]

There are definitely some lights that are too fast and others too slow

Too fast: All of the ECM equippable lights (IMO the max speed of the RVN-2X/4X should be swapped with the 3L)

Too slow: Clan lights, and the non-ECM equippable Ravens. Of course the only way to make clan lights faster is to let engine swap or implement MASC. I think I'd be ok with them introducing MASC for clans only at least until they can figure out the strategy for IS lights with MASC.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I sacrifice a bit of speed in my Raven 3L. The current engine gets me up to 132 o 134 kph with speed tweak. I have seen them go as fast as about 150.

I could go faster if I ditched the Artemis on my two SRM4 launchers, but I Like the tighter more concentrated SRM pattern with Art. I figure 132 is fast enough.

So, I try to compromise with speed vs firepower. Maybe if I made more of a light hunter, I would go for max speed.

[Wolfways]

Imo the game is too fast, but especially lights. I wish all mechs had fixed stock engines (although that could be a problem for XL engine assaults).

Light pilots like to say "Speed is life" but imo that applies to every mech, just to different degrees. Unfortunately, because of convergence armour means little in MWO and speed is vastly more important. If a Dire Wolf walks in front of a couple of enemy it gets cored in under 5 seconds. If a Spider does the same it barely notices unless caught by a lucky big weapon/alpha strike.
In fact i just watched a Spider on Alpine running about in the open firing at my team with an ERLL and spotting for his teams LRM's, while under fire from at least a lance for around 5 minutes before he ran off over a hill (no idea how much damage he took as he had ECM).

I mastered a few IS lights (Spider, Commando, Raven) with stock engine/weapons and can honestly say the survivability of those mechs is overwhelming. I'd say that about 80% of my deaths were by AC20, 15% by Gauss, and 5% by other weapons.
I even commented on the forums that i found the Commando to have very high survivability and people thought i was crazy.

I guess it comes down to playstyle. I use the lights speed to move from cover to cover and always try to flank the enemy to stay out of their LOS. I think most people who complain that lights are underpowered actually mean they can't just brawl in the open against bigger mechs. As far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be able to. Any other class does that and even if they win the fight they are generally wrecked by the end.
Attacking assaults from the rear is one thing, but just dancing around in front of the enemy and not getting almost instantly killed is another.
Imo lights are OP now, and have been almost since closed beta...but then i don't just run around in the open.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

NO! Lights are not 2 fast. Im still waiting on the Flea! PGI put the flea out with JJ untill/if you get MASC working.

[Green Mamba]

No ..IS lights are not Too fast as with all the high Damage alphas in game currently they can be 1 shotted. If PGI really wants the Light Ques' to be < 5% then by means go ahead and nerf their speed

[Clint Steel]

I go a couple engines down on my raven, runs about 18kph slower than top, but affords me more firepower.

Lights are very unpopular, because they take so much work to get their damage out, often constantly having to peck the whole match. Take away their speed and what do they have? Why play a slow light when you could play a medium that is near as fast, or play a heavy that packs a ton more of a punch? As the numbers show, heavies are preferable to the general population to the point that they are willing to have longer wait times to play them.

[Livewyr]

Part of me says "too fast" from a battle pace preference. (Along with many mechs)

But the part that wins out pictures a Jenner going 112kph trying to survive twin Gauss Rifles. (They stand little chance now at their speed. They would stand NO chance going slower.)

[Greenjulius]

As long as it runs at least 125 or more, most lights can do well. Some need that speed more than others... Ravens for instance. A slow raven is a dead raven. The Cicada (a medium, but as close as it gets) can shake off a little more damage, but is in a similar state.

On the other hand, spiders and commandos can get away with 125kph. They are small enough that the lag shield keeps them safe. Firestarters are in a similar boat. They can run tons of weapons with a slightly slower engine, but have favorable hitboxes and an overall small size.

Jenners are a mixed bag. I run my Oxide between 125-140, and seem to do better in general when a Jenner runs 140. That center torso is just too easy to hit.

[Josef Nader]

Clint Steel, on 29 September 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

I go a couple engines down on my raven, runs about 18kph slower than top, but affords me more firepower.

Lights are very unpopular, because they take so much work to get their damage out, often constantly having to peck the whole match. Take away their speed and what do they have? Why play a slow light when you could play a medium that is near as fast, or play a heavy that packs a ton more of a punch? As the numbers show, heavies are preferable to the general population to the point that they are willing to have longer wait times to play them.

Better hitboxes and lower priority when the enemy is firing at you. Unless you are the only target on the field or sporting ECM, lights are bottom dog when it comes to getting shot at. Even mediums draw a lot more fire, and with a slower light you can pack comparable firepower to a medium mech while maintaining that seemingly non-threatening nature of a light mech. People just kind of look straight past you unless you're the only target on the field, and if you are careful in how you play, you can take strong advantage of that.

Edited by Josef Nader, 29 September 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Wolfways]

Green Mamba, on 29 September 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

No ..IS lights are not Too fast as with all the high Damage alphas in game currently they can be 1 shotted.

Is this in team matches or something? I can honestly say lights rarely (if ever) get 1-shotted in any solo matches I've played since closed beta.