72 replies to this topic

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

its a cool idea, i loved the news feed on MW2 Mercs about a bad batch of Magna Hellstar PPC's flooding battlemechs with excessive heat after a discharge XD. it could be complicated though but really interesting.

[Demise]

Hi,
i was going to start a new topic relating to this, but thankfully the search function came good... and so I'm just here to give it a bump.

A few points i want to address:

1. It has been suggested that manufacturer variances would be difficult to implement. Well I'm not a programmer, but if the parameters for each weapon class are given as variables, then it should be no issue tweaking a given weapon 3% or 5% one way or another.

2. TT gamers have pointed out that it is not in the game, but that could also be due to the problems related to warranting a myriad of extra stats and specs sheets and to dice rolling. If, for example, players used D6 dice for "to hit" rolls, then +1 or -1 modifiers have a very large impact on the outcome - so it's not really tenable in TT gaming.

3. This system has worked and has added a lot of depth to other MMO games present and past. It's a proven feature and it lends itself well to the BattleTech universe. We would see new levels of intrigue regarding weapon loss and salvage, game strategy, and market trends if it were implemented.

So I hope that by bumping the topic some further attention is given to the matter. It's doable, it would add significant breadth to the game, and it would be a lot of fun...

[Hayden]

Eh, the notion appeals, but I just think it would be a ton of extra work that would ultimately nickle and dime time away from more "core" elements.

[VYCanis]

it could be made relatively easily actually, at least i think so. despite this ridiculously long post

for example, lets assume most weapon functions are broken down into modular stats

using ballistics as an example

damage per shot (higher the rating the more damage per shot)
rate of fire (higher the rating faster you shoot)
projectile speed/range (higher the rating the faster the bullet velocity/the farther your range/the less bullet drop you get)
accuracy (higher the rating the tighter groupings your weapon will be able to shoot)
ammo per ton (higher the rating the more rounds you have within a ton of ammo, this is modified by the damage per shot value however)
recoil compensation (higher the rating the less recoil you suffer)
heat efficiency (higher the rating the cooler the weapon runs)
resiliency (higher the rating, the harder the weapon is to break, jam, disable, or otherwise suffer problems)

Give each setting a rating between 1 and 10, 10 being the best.
Assume that there is effectively a pointbuy system in place where a limited number of points are distributed among the various stats

And influencing that pointbuy is a separate rating for Cost. The higher the cost rating, the more points there are to distribute.
So that a weapon with a cost rating of 1 (cheap trash) might have 20 points to allocate where as a weapon with a value of 10 (high end pricey stuff) might have 45, or something to that effect. So that no matter what, any given weapon that excels in one aspect has to suffer in another.

It should not be up to the player to allocate these points. Instead they should be able to buy them as is from the market. At most, if you can hire techs, depending on their skill they might be able to let you "tweak" a % of the point values a little bit, if at all.

The way this could work is that different manufacturers could release procedurally generated variants of a given weapon class on the market. Usually labeled as like ">Make< >model< >model number<"

So Ceres Metals might release a production run of Crusher Super heavy autocannons of varying performance grades and pricings, perhaps focusing on range and damage. While KaliYama industries has their own run of Kali Yama big bores of varying performance grades and pricings but catering towards a different focus, like say accuracy and rate of fire.

And for a little added uniqueness, you can have small perks/quirks that cost or free up points on the pointbuy system but don't really have a rating. Like having the AC only operate in burst fire, or having faster or slower ammo type switching, or having a larger than usual muzzle flash, or having more or less knock factor for its class, etc.

with energy it could be

Damage per shot (same as above)
rate of fire (same as above)
range (how far your weapon can reach)
Optimization (higher the rating, the less damage dropoff you get at range, and additionally in the case of PPCs, the smaller your minimum range)
Delay rating. (higher the rating the less of a charge delay you have between trigger pull and actually firing)
duration/concentration rating (higher the rating, the shorter the laser duration has to be to total up the damage, in the case of PPCs a higher rating concentrates the damage into a smaller area more)
heat efficiency (same as above)
resiliency (same as above)

perks/quirks might include: invisible to visual spectrum (lasers only) (nonstandard wavelength (different color than usual))
(poor insulation, suffer light EM fx each time fired)

Missiles

Damage per shot (ditto)
rate of fire (ditto)
range (ditto)
Missile speed (higher rating makes for faster missiles)
Guidance rating (higher rating makes for better tracking)
Stabilization (higher rating makes for straight direct flights, lower rating makes for squirrelly zig zaggy missiles)
heat efficiency (ditto)
resiliency (ditto)

perks/quirks might include top attack (missile flies high above target before dropping), visually guided, fire and forget style guidance, ripple fired, salvo fired, single fired, dumbfired,


Note though, the +/- values should be tweaking a baseline for that weapon class. So that even an AC20 that only has 1 point in damage per shot is still hitting hard, and a PPC with a 10 in heat efficiency is still going to tax heatsinks, only a an ac20 with a 10 in damage is going to hit a lot harder and a PPC with a 1 in heat efficiency will run a lot hotter.

Edited by VYCanis, 28 December 2011 - 01:05 PM.

[VYCanis]

Additionally, gauss rifles probably need their own set of stats since they are a combo of ballistic and energy weapon.

Damage
rate of fire
Kinetic force (how much knock force you impart on a target)
projectile speed/range
ammo per ton
delay rating
recoil compensation
resiliency (higher rating in this also reduces capacitor explosion damage)

[Nik Van Rhijn]

While I like all of your suggestions I think that this is again something we would see implemented down the line rather than at the start.

[VYCanis]

fair enough

[Pht]

SeDevri, on 21 November 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

I'm curious as to how the different manufacturing companies in the BT/MW universe will effect the quality and variety of purchasable and salvageable gear in the game. Will there be different specs for the same items based off of who constructed it? This might allow for a wide variety of basically the same item but with slightly different details. One company makes more accurate laser weapons while another makes ACs with a lower chance of jamming and so forth.

Any thoughts?

Fun idea, but there's so much in the way of data that would have to be entered and balancing issues that would crop up as to make it almost impossible to implement properly.

At the least, I hope they don't try for this in the initial release; they should keep their powder dry and get the core system done stellarly.

[SeDevri]

All i have to say is Borderlands

[MaddMaxx]

SeDevri, on 10 January 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

All i have to say is Borderlands

How about we use the K.I.S.S. principle and then do something... more.

[Pht]

Here's a timekill for you manufacturer fans:

Crouton Command

Edited by Pht, 11 January 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[Fyrwulf]

SeDevri, on 21 November 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

I'm curious as to how the different manufacturing companies in the BT/MW universe will effect the quality and variety of purchasable and salvageable gear in the game. Will there be different specs for the same items based off of who constructed it? This might allow for a wide variety of basically the same item but with slightly different details. One company makes more accurate laser weapons while another makes ACs with a lower chance of jamming and so forth.

Any thoughts?

This is not allowable by the tabletop rules and so won't be implemented in the game. The devs have stated over and over again that they're sticking as close as possible the the heart and soul of the source universe.

[VYCanis]

not represented ≠ not allowable

the fluff and art is packed to bursting with different representations of the same class of equipment. The TT ruleset chooses to abstract that equipment in a standardized way for the sake of simplicity. Whether PGI do that ot not as well is up to them, but it certainly wouldn't be inaccurate to battletech to represent it.