439 replies to this topic

[Vervuel]

One thing that is driving me nuts: PUGs who bring suboptimal builds. I mean, leave the damned locust at home. The 1 x UAC5 4 med laser hunchback. The DWF with only 2 lbx20's. Its just stupid. Or the guy with EIGHT ER Large Lasers. I wish my mech had a 2x4, so i could knock some sense into people.

[Kodyn]

I do think a lot of the people who are mad about the tourney are just suicide farming, seeing the worst tactics and gameplay I've ever seen in this game or any other today, so either half the playerbase is having a stroke at the same time, or people are intentionally not trying just to spite those actively working on the tourney.

I could be paranoid, but have so far today started most matches 2-4 mechs down to to players death-charging the enemy at beginning..hard to come back with a win from that.

[Dragomir Zelenka]

Kodyn, on 05 October 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

I do think a lot of the people who are mad about the tourney are just suicide farming, seeing the worst tactics and gameplay I've ever seen in this game or any other today, so either half the playerbase is having a stroke at the same time, or people are intentionally not trying just to spite those actively working on the tourney.

I could be paranoid, but have so far today started most matches 2-4 mechs down to to players death-charging the enemy at beginning..hard to come back with a win from that.

I suppose it's comforting to think people would be intentionally sabotaging things, but the reality is a lot of players are just that bad, and the kill farm mentality the Cbill bonus is inspiring is bringing out the absolute worst in a lot of players.

[Kjudoon]

Kodyn, on 05 October 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

EDIT: Also, the reason for the Lurmageddon people are bemoaning is the fact that most pugs really aren't very good...so it's both those poor players using lurms to try and compete, and the good guys who are getting frustrated by seeing no teamwork, and plenty of lurms on the other side, so they switch to lurms themselves just to make up for their pugs. I normally am stuck on ballistics, but can't just solo brawl everything myself, so if I can't have any team play, I may swap over to lurms myself just to finish the tourney, since sometimes the only way to get pugs to win is to give them plenty of lurm support. Otherwise everyone just turtles or scatters, it's been about 50/50.

When things get so bad that nobody supports LRMs but everyone brings them is when I switch into my ECM raven, Crutches, with all the derp I can bring and go snipe at them because it just ain't worth it anymore. Though I have discovered the love of my JJ 4X Raven. I will admit I really am looking forward to see what this Tier 4 mech will get as a quirk bonus to help equalize them with tier 1 mechs.

[Kodyn]

Yeah, kjudoon, isn't that funny? Everyone's got the LRMs, but very little Tag+Narc, and no one's playing smart in any way shape or form, just hiding and lurming, hoping for the best.

Guess I should have become a light pilot in time for this tourney lol, they may complain, but in truth, they actually have it easiest right now, them and the LRM-boat assaults that get lucky on targets. Us brawlers and direct fire guys are having the worst time of it, so we need to adapt i guess.

[Kjudoon]

Kodyn, on 05 October 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

Yeah, kjudoon, isn't that funny? Everyone's got the LRMs, but very little Tag+Narc, and no one's playing smart in any way shape or form, just hiding and lurming, hoping for the best.

Guess I should have become a light pilot in time for this tourney lol, they may complain, but in truth, they actually have it easiest right now, them and the LRM-boat assaults that get lucky on targets. Us brawlers and direct fire guys are having the worst time of it, so we need to adapt i guess.

Oh I wouldn't be trying to compete at all either. Let's face it, I'm an irritating but horrible light pilot. A good game is when I get a single kill. 2 is phenomenal, and breaking 200 damage? Wow... I was tearing it up.

BTW, I do the same when everyone brings ECM and LRMs are useless too. Crutches is my "throwing up my hands in frustration, but still wants to drop a match or two" mech. Or my "let's re-learn what bad pilots do so I can see what kills me so I can kill them better", mech.

[Kodyn]

This is one of those times I'm regretting not having gotten an Atlas sooner...Was already planning on mastering DDC this week, but it won't be in time for the tourney...would have been nice to have ECM and an assault that people could at least follow to give them some semblance of teamwork. Also then I could argue with all the guys who refuse to ever push because "the slow assaults might get left behind", when they see me in a slow assault actually pushing lol.

I just am having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that people seem to really think defensive play will net them a win, when it loses more than 90% of the time...yet they keep turtling and dying, match after match after match. I guess I see it all week in solo to some extent, but these events really bring out the stupid on a whole other level. That's my only real complaint about it...any event that causes us to rely on teamwork is naturally going to be very, very frustrating, when you can't force people to be smarter than they actually are.


EDIT: Whoever it was that was complaining about lights getting the worst of this tourney isn't doing lights right...just realized that nearly every game, the enemy lights are what wins for them, spotting for all the lurms, harassing the heavy-assaults, and basically just running around invincibly lag-shielded everywhere. I've had 700-800 damage matches where i still lost because half that firepower got unloaded into lights that just refused to die, and I expect I'm not alone in this. So anyone who can't do well with lights in this sort of event, find a way to slow your connection, so you can be invincible, and you're good to go.

Edited by Kodyn, 05 October 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Sunday's always seem to be rough. I am an average (or so) pilot. And never make the leader boards in these things. However the bonus is a nice thing. But have only managed to get half of what they allow. Which kinda really is dead middle,

Matter of fact, if it wasn't for grinding the bonus, I would have played in the team queue this weekend.

[CyborgDragon]

Vervuel, on 05 October 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

One thing that is driving me nuts: PUGs who bring suboptimal builds. I mean, leave the damned locust at home. The 1 x UAC5 4 med laser hunchback. The DWF with only 2 lbx20's. Its just stupid. Or the guy with EIGHT ER Large Lasers. I wish my mech had a 2x4, so i could knock some sense into people.

Not everyone is playing for the tourney you know, some people just want to play for fun. Don't try and tell people what 'mechs or builds they can and can't bring.

[Kodyn]

CyborgDragon, on 05 October 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Not everyone is playing for the tourney you know, some people just want to play for fun. Don't try and tell people what 'mechs or builds they can and can't bring.

This is what I really think is the main issue here...half of us are trying for the tourney, and half aren't, yet we're all in the same queue...so that pretty much screws both sides. Us tourney guys are gonna get mad at all the horrific tactics and mech builds, and the guys not participating don't want to be forced to play well, and really neither side is wrong nor right.

The only solution other than a separate queue for tournaments/challenges that I can think of is sticking to truly team or solo oriented challenges, not ones where you are required to play solo, but rely on teammates who may not even be in it for the win.
Kind of makes no sense, really, now that I think about it more, can't really justify why they set it up this way, unless it's for the stats so they can see for next time how to do it better. Remember, the devs are learning from these events just as we do, we just feel the effects of their learning curve in the form of losses lol.

[CrashieJ]

I'm going to stay away from this one, it just seems there is just an air of dis-cohesion between players trying to Lurm each other to death.

also most of my builds are brawlers and it's not fun being killed through cover

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Brawlers work wonderful. Half my bonuses were made with one.

[Kodyn]

Brawlers work wonderfully when you get the rare decent team, far too many matches where high damage is wasted on my 'Phract, when i realize that half my team is dead from scattering to lurms or hiding until found and dismantled while I was brawling a few of the enemy down.

I'm going to repeat my point that the one major problem here is the mixing of tourney and random pug people, I think the tourney is actively pissing half the player base off, who refuse to help, which is actively pissing off the other half who would like the free CBills from some wins. I had great fun the first day of the tourney, but as the weekend progresses and more non-tourney people get on, it's gone downhill very fast.

[Dragomir Zelenka]

Kodyn, on 05 October 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

Brawlers work wonderfully when you get the rare decent team, far too many matches where high damage is wasted on my 'Phract, when i realize that half my team is dead from scattering to lurms or hiding until found and dismantled while I was brawling a few of the enemy down.

Oh yeah. I've been taking the opportunity to finish the elite skills on my two Blackjacks during this tourney, while trying to play for the bonuses. Both are built to be mid to close(ish) range flankers/brawler support, and during normal PUG play they're great for shredding components and absolutely lethal in mid to late game.

This tournament, however, has been God awful for me in regards to support brawling. People are just running all over the place trying to vulture each other, when they aren't busy tripping over each other to run and hide the instant their paint is scratched. I've participated in a number of the tourneys here, and this is by far the most frustrating, with overall the worst level of play.

[Deathlike]

Kodyn, on 05 October 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Kind of makes no sense, really, now that I think about it more, can't really justify why they set it up this way, unless it's for the stats so they can see for next time how to do it better. Remember, the devs are learning from these events just as we do, we just feel the effects of their learning curve in the form of losses lol.

When it comes to the tourney, they haven't really improved them over time, outside of scoring adjustments.

The game really plays the same way it since they've done them... selfish, kill stealing, and blocking others from the kill shot (in addition to hiding like rats). Heck, people just deviate just to claim that easy kill (I'm sure I've been guilty of it).

While the C-bill reward thing is admirable (I have a reason to play it seriously just for the money), it's a very high bar for many casual players... and it exploits one's understanding of the reward system... which is actually favorable when collecting assists (a somewhat good thing, despite just tapping them briefly with any weapon to collect it).

In essence, it doesn't "help" the situation as much as it should, especially given the sparse skill nature of most solo queue matches.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 October 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[Postumus]

The problem with the C-bill rewards is that they are geared towards tonnage and firepower. You are basically paying people to buy direwolves.

Also, making the match score target the same for all classes, AND clan and IS is questionable.

Edited by Postumus, 05 October 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Kodyn]

Other than as I've said, somehow separating the serious players from the chaff, I don't know that there's much the Devs could do to fix it though, it's mostly a problem on the playerbase-side. For example, EVE online, total sandbox, players can be good, evil, etc, and most simply choose to be as evil and nasty as they can, because they can. The nasty, mean S.O.B.s who enjoy griefing and ruining others' gameplay is encouraged and allowed, thus it's proliferated to ridiculous levels.

Basically what I'm saying is that a lot of gamers are basically not the nicest people in the world, which is why they tend to be home playing games alone rather than out somewhere with people...so a lot of this is on us. People could play this tourney smarter, encourage teamwork, etc, but they're choosing to play it the easiest and sleaziest ways they can, if at all, because, well, they can. Unless we want the Devs pigeonholing us to the point where we can only play certain ways and that's it, if we want freedom, we have to be responsible with it.

Give players a sandbox, and they will for certain sh*t in it, and then blame everyone else when someone steps in it.

Edited by Kodyn, 05 October 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Stickjock, on 05 October 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Either way, only thing I could suggest, and it's just my opinion... instead of this:
Match points special formula:
(Kills × 20) + (Kill Assist × 10) + ((Damage Done - Team Damage) ÷ 15)

reverse it to:

(Kills × 10) + (Kill Assist × 20) + ((Damage Done - Team Damage) ÷ 15)

This seems like a bad idea. After tagging all 12 mechs on the enemy team people would focus on doing damage without killing because at that point kills would lower their score.

[SoHxPaladin]

Mechwarrior Mousse, on 03 October 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Will you please tell Niko to reword that to "Friendly Fire" then? "Team damage" can obviously be interpreted several ways which leads to confusion.

TEAMDAMAGE HAS ALWAYS AND FOREVER MEANT DAMAGE YOU HAVE DONE TO FRIENDIES IN ANY GAME I HAVE EVER PLAYED! it has several other names, but Friendly Fire is the EASIEST phrase to use...

[ShinobiHunter]

Brandorf, on 05 October 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

I think all that really needed was some score multipliers for weight classes, as a medium pilot (and yes, it's been rough, but my queue times at least are near instant). I've gotten dozen of ~120 point matches. Just a little handicap for being a little medium brawler in the middle of the gaussfest/lurmageddon.

Also I've had sever 130+ point matches that were losses, those should have counted.

What mech have you been using? I've been trying my best in a Wolverine with SRM's. It sucks to get a 4 kill 700 damage match and lose because your team was lousy. I have had some brilliant matches with outstanding teammates, but most just go full derp on me.