<p>First off Alphastruck, thanks for some well thought out responses in this matter. It's something I think everyone can learn from about this as most people, I don't know consider what the actual role and intent of LRMs in the game is at this time. A lot of people operate from emotions (inspired by their last game usually) or are using it to foist their vision on the game of what they think it should be like, so this is good.</p>
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1. LRMs should not be treated as a primary weapon system only as a auxillary added ability weapon. Missles should be used as a closing to target weapon, something every mech would benefit from carrying even in single smaller racks but would lose effectiveness and create larger and larger vulnerability the more boat like you become. Not to disable boating(very valid in team games with front line blockers as a artillery peice. The CPLT comes to mind)
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<p>The LRM, just like a ballistic mech or energy mech should have a primary place on the battlefield of this game. Although Energy and Ballistic are almost... ALMOST interchangeable, the LRM is unique in that it is the only indirect fire weapon, and the only long range guided weapon. This grants it unique status that really should have a compliment for ballistics (like say Mech Mortars... oh please oh please...) and I don't know how you could do this for energy unless you employed a "Honor Harrington" style laser warheads which is not even close to lore in any way. Regardless LRMs unique characteristics make it an essential battlefield item, but it's current abilities relegate it to secondary or tertiary status when it easily could be king of the battlefield.</p>
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<p>One of the biggest problems right now with making LRMs as a secondary weapon is that the current design of the game makes using small volleys of the weapon nigh impossible. AMS scours the skies of any volley less than 20 in most cases, unless you have multiple mechs utilizing it. This means you have to choose to either make LRMs your main weapon, or ignore it, using something not affected by the LRM defenses. It's sad, but since I don't run a mech without LRMs 98% of the time trust me, I've been searching for this balance. Even LRM lights with 10-15 tubes are vastly underpowered except against groups that have little to no AMS at the time. It's been my complaint that the AMS system is causing the feast or famine nature of LRMs because of it's ability to reduce the weapon's functionality to nil for half the game encourages boating which leads to those endgames where the AMS runs dry and those LRMers out there start blasting things to shreds.</p>
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<p>With AMS in it's current broken uber state (broken because it shoots through scenery) a good solution to this would be to end it's targeting of missiles aimed at other friendly mechs. This would at least make the smaller LRM loads more functional in the game and encourage it's use as a backup pursuit or situational weapon (dug in targets that are well defended from DF weaponry). To further prevent boating, make the tube limits a hard limit so you end the 'rainbow' of doom coming out of mechs that traditionally never had the ability to boat.</p>
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<p>Certain mechs should always be allowed to boat, like certain mechs carry ECM, the others should have reduced capacity. There is no good reason why an atlas should be allowed to fire more than 25LRMs as some variant hardpoints allow. ON the other hand, the CPLT A1 should be blasting them non-stop.</p>
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2. Missles should deal damage and get kills! The damage should be a little more spread out and at a much MUCH lower DPS rate(burst damage could be somewhat higher). This gives the weapon a role. Right now they are a valide lone wolf, play by myself and still get the kills as missle boats have so few weaknesses. They have "some"... but running a boat you can EASILY out gun a directfire beast at 500m(not including the current clantech, another subject). The idea 2 equal mechs can stay at 500m and trade fire with the missle boat coming out remotely close is ludacris.
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<div>That's good to hear!
Currently LRMs are spread very wide. Worse than an LBX in fact. On top of that, they took away all splash so it even impacts like the LBx. It never seems like it's very wide, but trust me, when you need that kill to happen, it's always just a little too spread out to be useful.</div>
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<div>I guess I don't understand the DPS complaint to be honest. My hit percentages without Artemis is around 20-30% over a few hunderd thousand fired. With Artemis, it goes up on average 5-15% per launcher. This is pretty abyssmal when compared to my energy and ballistic weapons which I confess I'm a lousy shot (hence why I Lurm). </div>
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<div>Missile boat weaknesses are the same as real world archers were. Lousy backup weapon, and unable to get away, usually from those who get among their ranks. They have to be good at remaining out of the line of fire if they want to survive, for although their armor is maybe quite good, they still have little ability to defend themselves, or the speed to get away. On my most effective LRM mech, I have a single ML (nicknamed "The Mighty Medium Lazor of DOOOOOOM" because it's been the dagger that won more than a couple matches) as my backup weapon. Normally though, I can't brawl my way out of a wet paper bag because I've devoted so much of the mech to the LRM game, and it is very fine doing that. So, to give the advice many of my teammates have said when they learn I'm against them... charge them. Get inside 180m and brawl them down. More often than not, you will win if they are devoted to LRMs.</div>
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<div>That is their critical weakness.</div>
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<div>As for running as an LRM lone wolf, you're right you're in trouble. The biggest limiting factor to an LRM mech is teamwork. If you get no cooperation, you can't help anyone either. I like to view LRM mechs like the archers or artillery units on the battlefield. You never take the field with just those troops. They are there to soften up targets, or lay waste to an area so the troopers can just walk through what is left with minimal resistance. OR if the troops end up in deep doo doo, they can soften the enemy up, scatter them or get those they cannot safely assault. If you don't have that vision with your other drop-mates, your options are limited as well. Does the soldier begrudge the cannon crew for knocking out a pill box or machinegun nest? No. That is what LRMs are for in MWO IMHO as it's primary role.</div>
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3.NO. A single mech should not be stopping all missles completely. The problem is that AMS is so deficient no one bother to spare 1.5t to carry it. Even dual AMS with both buffs does nothing. AMS also concentrates on the lead missle even after its passed a mech... It should be lockable to your front making sure its always shooting down relevant missles. Ammo counts need to be addressed as 4000 rounds lasts about 6m in a match with more than 1 missels boat. AMS needs to be buffed to increased range(10%), ammo(100%), and damage about 5%-15% with a targeting fix or minor upgardes to all with other option to increase your mechs anti missle output. This include module increases, upgrade opitons to AMS with c-bill cost( airburst with great anitLRM ability, frag ammo with excellent antiSRM ability but no LRM and with less ammo per ton or taking more slots per ton) and other options each with a trade off. Not immune but with the right setup and trade offs you and your team can ruin a boat lovers day.
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<p>Happy day! too many people don't get this. AMS shouldn't be a shield, it should be a reduction, and it does work. The problem is that it protects every friendly, not just you and that means you can burn through ammo fast, and be left without it when you desperately needed it. Also, it is broken in that it shoots through anything because of how it was designed, even if you are not in danger. Good LRM pilots also know to let the less skilled burn through the AMS of a target then roar in at the end with heavy salvos at a now unprotected target like the four horsemen making the target think that LRMs are OP, when it's just cagey play. IF, you ended AMS targeting for other mechs, I agree it would need a buff. But with it's broken status, plus protecting every friendly inside its bubble allowing for interlocking fields of fire, creating a temporary total shield, I can't agree much. </p>
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<p>Right now the rough formula is each AMS unit kills 4 LRMs per salvo, without it's module buffs, which can take it over 5-6. That's pretty good IMHO, and would eliminate an LRM5 launcher from any salvo with a buff, per unit. As you can see, this moves the minimum amount of missiles up that you need because you must factor in how many are consumed by AMS to make LRMs functional on the battlefield. The current bare minimum is 10, and even then... that's pretty lousy. If an AC20 was factored in the same way, it becomes an AC16/12/8 if shooting at a kit fox with the same speed as LRMs. Nobody'd bring an AC20 if this was the case. That being said, you also don't have the ability to bring 4-5 AC20s to the battlefield, nor has anyone the need.</p>
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<p>quite a different way to consider it, isn't it?</p>
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4. Cover from missles is good choice. Should be more choices... right now its dont peak or get seen or you take 60+ damage.</div>
<div>Cover should be used until the team decides to move in or to another location but that movement shouldnt cost you a assault. We need far more tactical movement and repositioning to bring stratagy back into the game.
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<div>That also begs the question what other defenses should exist? AMS lessens damage, ECM hides you in plain sight, cover stops missiles cold and conceals. There's the upcoming chaff module too if it gets implemented. We have concealment too in the forms of smoke snow and scenery which is a minor complication and meant more for DF or dumbfire weapon soft counters.</div>
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<div>This is just going to be a reality in the game as it is in real life. You don't poke your head out when it can/will get shot off, This is what makes the game more interesting to me in some regards, and frustrating in others. It is also what makes the unique aspects of the LRM more useful as it can go over low cover and drive out those poptarts making the game more mobile.</div>
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<div>I don't know if I would call LRMs a "Primary" weapon anymore than I would call a mortar crew or artillery unit a 'primary' weapon compared to infantry. They are essential IMHO and should not be cheapened because some people want to engage only in ritualistic duels without indirect or guided weapons fire. LRMs need to be improved a little more so it can make a valid contribution to competitive play. Yes this means they will be rougher on noobs and bad players as they are a feast/famine weapon... but then again, Artillery and similar weapons are pretty much the same way in real life. Consider the assault on Breacourt Manor from D-Day. That artillery was slaughtering troops on the beach, but a squad of infantry got among them and easily took them all out. Each weapon type should have it's special purpose and niche. This is very hard to do in MWO from what I see, but it shouldn't be overlooked in its importance on the game's battlefield. We shouldn't cheapen how they work because people whine either. It is what it is and that's a very simulationist attitude I have and feel that is for the betterment of the game, other than playing a game of catering to the impossible to please.</div>
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That Dawg, on 04 October 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:
. Its a game and balance bring challenge and fun.You want people trying to engage at all times not hiding so their 5min search time leads to a pointless 2 min game. Go with that first.
