85 replies to this topic

[Third Person View]

I wish I knew why people all hate me

[Kirkland Langue]

The Wakelord, on 05 October 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Thanks everyone for explaining it! I can understand the initial backlash from the playerbase, but I'm surprised we are still seeing the 3PV 'hatemail' come so frequently ... what 3~4 years on?

It isn't just 3PV - it's that 3PV was prioritized over features which were touted as main selling points for the game in the first place, features that have STILL not yet been released. Want to know why people continue to be angry at PGI? It isn't 3PV. It's 3PV+Lies+CW+UI2.0+removing Knockdowns + Ghost Heat + the same 90-day promises over and over and over and over and over.

Don't try to single out 3PV as being the cause of people's anger - it's just one of many many many examples were PGI made decisions which were only meant to generate short term revenue at the cost of throwing their player-base under the bus.

[Bront]

Vassago Rain, on 05 October 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

PGI promised they'd never implement it. This was in fact part of the original pitch.

Later, their position changed, as it did on so many other things.

...

tl; dr PGI lied. It came back to haunt them later.

To be fair, if you read between the lines of what they've said, it's pretty clear IGP pushed them into making 3rd person view.

It was a hot button issue at the time, and what they implemented honestly doesn't really do what it's design goals were, and has very little benefit.

At this point, I think most people are over it, as it's just part of MWO life.

[Rebas Kradd]

Vassago Rain, on 05 October 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

tl; dr PGI lied. It came back to haunt them later.

So, in other words, you don't have a good reason at all.

PGI did NOT lie. They changed their minds. Calling it a lack of "integrity" is an intellectually bankrupt move, and starting smear campaigns over a feature that nobody even uses anymore has no justification.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 October 2014 - 07:41 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Bront, on 05 October 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

To be fair, if you read between the lines of what they've said, it's pretty clear IGP pushed them into making 3rd person view.

It was a hot button issue at the time, and what they implemented honestly doesn't really do what it's design goals were, and has very little benefit.

At this point, I think most people are over it, as it's just part of MWO life.

This excuse also directly goes back to integrity.

What kind of developer has so little integrity they refuse to stand up to their publisher when it's demanded that their vision be changed?

See, no matter how you twist it, it all comes back to that initial thing there, which is PGI's integrity.

You can't say 'but I was told by others to do thus.'

[Kirkland Langue]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

So, in other words, you don't have a good reason at all.

PGI did NOT lie. They changed their minds. Calling it a lack of "integrity" is an intellectually bankrupt move and the angst has no justification.

You clearly have no idea what the word "lie" even means. I'm guessing you are an alt of a PGI employee.

[Vassago Rain]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

So, in other words, you don't have a good reason at all.

PGI did NOT lie. They changed their minds. Calling it a lack of "integrity" is an intellectually bankrupt move and the angst has no justification.

No, they clearly lied. They also lied when Bryan went on stage at the launch event and promised loyalty points and CW in no more than 4 weeks, so more would buy into the phoenix grab deal. Over a year later, we still don't have loyalty points in the game, meaning the phoenix mech bonus is still worthless, as is the special pre-order loyalty bonus medallions.

PGI isn't very good at that whole integrity thing, and the gaming community at large agrees. If they weren't so bad at it, they'd not have seen fit to censor all transverse discussion, pre-banning people like me who, at the time, were barely active on this forum, lock down their new reddit, block comments on all youtube videos... The list goes on.

It was simply hubris. They thought they could get away with it, but they couldn't.

Now I'm posting here again, as are you. Russ is frequently interacting with his playerbase now, Niko has hid under a bridge somewhere, and we've not heard or seen much from either Bryan or Paul for quite some time. They're celebrating one year of service, and even decided to hand out some special items to people who've been around for awhile/who've been good customers.

Obviously, the whole spectacle served as a wake-up call. But are they sincere this time? Yes? No? Maybe.

I don't know, and it's something we'll have to wait and see. Suffice to say, PGI has a long history of poor decisions, and their terms are now in use by many other gaming communities.

[Kirkland Langue]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

over an incredibly minor matter?

Is this guy for real?

Nobody is holding PGI hostage over 3PV. The 3PV issue is an example of a long term pattern of behavior. It is the lying and misleading that gets the community up in arms. Not that your opinion matters any more than mine - and I sure as hell didn't put money into Transverse. In fact, the only value the website had in my mind was to reinforce what the repercussions are for PGI's lying over the years.

3PV is just an example, and not even close to the starkest example - so quit trying to raise it up as a non-issue which is the cause of all the anger towards the Devs.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 05 October 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Kirkland Langue, on 05 October 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

Is this guy for real?

Nobody is holding PGI hostage over 3PV.

Then stop citing it.

And yes, a few people are holding out over this. Perhaps not you, but I've seen "not another cent until 3PV queues are established" comments.

Kirkland Langue, on 05 October 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

3PV is just an example, and not even close to the starkest example - so quit trying to raise it up as a non-issue which is the cause of all the anger towards the Devs.

The importance of 3PV doesn't even approach the heft and significance of the other issues you cited. The problems concerning CW are a semi-trailer in comparison to the bicycle that is the 3PV matter. It doesn't even belong in the discussion.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 October 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

That's not really how it works.

Go through and look at the opinions in this thread. When are you going to realize that you're on an island and that you're trying to hold the developer hostage over an incredibly minor matter?

Yeah that's not how it works. No one gets to call PGI out on their past BS without this

[Rebas Kradd]

Ghogiel, on 05 October 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Yeah that's not how it works. No one gets to call PGI out on their past BS without this

Keep pouring on the weaksauce. I call PGI out on what they deserve, as you'd know if you reviewed my posting history (Reddit would be good for that). You want to know my pet peeve? Poor communication, lack of PR initiative, inability to tease or offer any kind of "dev diaries" or ongoing campaign. I rag on that all the time (though it's slowly, infinitesimally getting better over the course of the year).

And since this thread has a limited lifespan before reaching K-Town...

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 October 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[meteorol]

Vassago Rain, on 05 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

What kind of developer has so little integrity they refuse to stand up to their publisher when it's demanded that their vision be changed?

Considering how "games" in general have changed over the last 10 years? Every single developer i guess. EA has the reputation of destroying popular developement teams for a reason. Waving the middle finger towards your publisher while you are obliged to him by a contract and depend on his money is something that pretty much no developer would do.

[cSand]

guys

let it go.

And OP

why the helll you gravedig this old topic up. FOr some of these guys it's like their ex just showed up at the party with her new boyfriend

And Vassago... mountain out of molehill buddy. Such drama!

And if you truly believe this issue to be worth all the moaning, it's probably time to shave the neckbeard and get out of the house. And.. far away from a computer.

So childish!

Edited by cSand, 05 October 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[Reitrix]

Vassago Rain, on 05 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

This excuse also directly goes back to integrity.

What kind of developer has so little integrity they refuse to stand up to their publisher when it's demanded that their vision be changed?

See, no matter how you twist it, it all comes back to that initial thing there, which is PGI's integrity.

Lol, the kind of developer that cannot afford to keep a free to play shooter afloat without said publishers financial backing.
If PGI had gone rambo on IGP over features as people seem to want them to have done, we may well not have had any kind of MWO to play today.

[Burktross]

Fog of war.
That is all.

[Bront]

Vassago Rain, on 05 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

What kind of developer has so little integrity they refuse to stand up to their publisher when it's demanded that their vision be changed?

One that wishes to continue being employed?

The more I hear from the PGI folks since they kicked IGP, coupled with what IGP did with Mechwarrior Tactics has me pointing a lot more of the MWO issue blame at them than PGI.

It's rarely as simple as any of us would wish it could be (IE, PGI lied, or it's all IGP's fault). Truth is, if PGI has any real integrity, we'll likely never find out exactly what happened (or at least we won't for the next few years). PGI has so far done a marvelous job of not blaming IGP for anything other than mentioning they had to get around an IGP restriction on how much MC they could give out (and that was a post where they simply said "We want to give out more free stuff"), and we'll see how much turns around, but it does seem that PGI has turned a corner since they dropped IGP.

[Kirkland Langue]

Bront - I'd like to hope that you are right. I'm still laying it at PGI's door step, heavily, simply because the time is now for them to make progress. The next 90 days will likely determine whether O stands for "online" or "offline" a year from now.

[KamikazeRat]

i don't get the hate of 3pv as a feature, in fact i can see the merit in it. (yes, i know all the sordid history of it, check my join date, not a founder, but i've been here longer than most of them)

Handed the game over to the wife...she didnt understand how to walk, until i hit the 3pv view mode, then she could with better confidence move around. (she still ran into crap, which was mildly amusing to watch)

*hides behind a chair*

so...it does help new players.....

*runs out of the room*

Edited by KamikazeRat, 05 October 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Bront, on 05 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

One that wishes to continue being employed?

The more I hear from the PGI folks since they kicked IGP, coupled with what IGP did with Mechwarrior Tactics has me pointing a lot more of the MWO issue blame at them than PGI.

It's rarely as simple as any of us would wish it could be (IE, PGI lied, or it's all IGP's fault). Truth is, if PGI has any real integrity, we'll likely never find out exactly what happened (or at least we won't for the next few years). PGI has so far done a marvelous job of not blaming IGP for anything other than mentioning they had to get around an IGP restriction on how much MC they could give out (and that was a post where they simply said "We want to give out more free stuff"), and we'll see how much turns around, but it does seem that PGI has turned a corner since they dropped IGP.

I do sincerely hope the change is real, not to mention permanent, but as I said earlier, we'll have to wait and see.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 05 October 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I am not so bent on 3pv. I do find it funny that many raising a stink about it regularly participate in synch drops themselves and fought tooth and nail against PGI incorporating voip in game as that was a waste of developer time too.

Mention synch dropping and watch the same guys upset at 3pv for its unfair advantage and they will tell you your nuts.

Its all how your see it. For yourselves or for others.

add in how many who are still here and laying money down and it becomes a joke on both sides.