85 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Mudhutwarrior, on 05 October 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

I am not so bent on 3pv. I do find it funny that many raising a stink about it regularly participate in synch drops themselves and fought tooth and nail against PGI incorporating voip in game as that was a waste of developer time too.

Mention synch dropping and watch the same guys upset at 3pv for its unfair advantage and they will tell you your nuts.

Its all how your see it. For yourselves or for others.

add in how many who are still here and laying money down and it becomes a joke on both sides.

It's the ongoing tragedy of giant robots. MWO could easily be turned into a soap opera.

[Bront]

Kirkland Langue, on 05 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Bront - I'd like to hope that you are right. I'm still laying it at PGI's door step, heavily, simply because the time is now for them to make progress. The next 90 days will likely determine whether O stands for "online" or "offline" a year from now.

Time will tell, and just because IGP may have been pushing many of the bad buttons in the MWO game experience doesn't mean PGI is going to right the ship either, I just think they deserve some credit for the good they have done, and the turn around they seem to have made regarding being part of the MWO community (I've seen Russ and Paul and other devs posting in threads more in September than I had since I started playing actively in June 2013). But it doesn't mean I'm going to blindly follow everything they do either. But it's a little late to crucify them for 3PV, and it seems like it might not have been their fault.

[JackkyChan]

I like the 3rd person feature in MWO but PGI screwed it up just like a lot of things in the game I am finding out.I found a link on these forums to a mechwarrior4 demo so I downloaded it and holy crapp it was fun in 3rdperson view no stupid red indicator the mechs view was great I could see all the way around my mech. I really liked it if anything PGI screwed up 3rd person view by not doing it right like in past MechWarrior games.

Don't get me wrong I like the in cockpit view as well but it was a much more exciting in 3rd person view fighting in mechwarrio4 demo than the screwed up way PGI did 3rd person view in MWO. If it was me I would remove the red beacon above the mechs and all the red triangles and target enemy's by los alone.MWO for targeting is like way to easy mode you know where everyone is on your team and enemy team 90% of the time.

[Golden Vulf]

Are the click to win people against the 3d camera?

Easy Mode vs Easy Mode, in a fight to the (lost interest)

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Bront, on 05 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

One that wishes to continue being employed?

The more I hear from the PGI folks since they kicked IGP, coupled with what IGP did with Mechwarrior Tactics has me pointing a lot more of the MWO issue blame at them than PGI.

It's rarely as simple as any of us would wish it could be (IE, PGI lied, or it's all IGP's fault). Truth is, if PGI has any real integrity, we'll likely never find out exactly what happened (or at least we won't for the next few years). PGI has so far done a marvelous job of not blaming IGP for anything other than mentioning they had to get around an IGP restriction on how much MC they could give out (and that was a post where they simply said "We want to give out more free stuff"), and we'll see how much turns around, but it does seem that PGI has turned a corner since they dropped IGP.

Of course it's easy now to blame a company on the verge of bankruptcy for all your shortcomings.

[Triskelion]

Third Person View, on 05 October 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

I wish I knew why people all hate me

Now you do.

[Roadbeer]

Just to parrot what others have said.

It was the message, not the mechanic.

While the benefits of it are fairly edge-case, the way they went about implementing it (someone had to stop working on one of the serious issues at the time to build it in) and the "let them eat cake" policy towards the Forumites at the time, and for a while afterwards...

It was a lot like when New Coke was released. "Hey, we know you don't really like this new thing we've made, but not only are we going to push it out, we're going to take away the thing you've loved for decades... SUCK IT"

Edited by Roadbeer, 05 October 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[WonderSparks]

EvilCow, on 05 October 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

...

That would take swallowing some pride of course.

I seem to recall someone saying the same thing about how they took away the CN9-AH. Seeing as that is coming back, I do believe PGI is capable of "swallowing their pride", so you may just see them do that one day.

[EvilCow]

WonderSparks, on 05 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I seem to recall someone saying the same thing about how they took away the CN9-AH. Seeing as that is coming back, I do believe PGI is capable of "swallowing their pride", so you may just see them do that one day.

I hope, I am a critic but one of those critics that hope to be wrong.

[IceSerpent]

The Wakelord, on 05 October 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Ok so.

From what I've garned, the old-hands hate third person view, and that PGI were forced to implement it.

Can anyone explain to me why it is so hated?

Here's the scoop. In general 3PV allows you to see around corners and/or over ridges without exosing yourself to enemy fire, which is not good for tactical combat. This is why most "old-hands" were so against it from the beginning. Eventually PGI minimized the exploit capability by only allowing 3PV in solo queue and only allowing solo players in that queue (although it took them quite a while to get it done) - it's difficult to do a "magic scout" routine (switch to 3PV, peek over the ridge, switch back to 1PV, report any contacts) when you're not on voice comms with your team. Main issue now is that 3PV acts as a newb trap - rookies don't know about pros and cons of 3PV and stay in 3PV the whole time, which makes them easy targets.

[Hardin4188]

The implementation of third person was an abomination and a betrayal. Now previous posters have already explained this position very well so I won't go in depth here.

I just want to share my opinion on the matter. I couldn't play this game for a long time because it was so insulting. Telling us that we weren't the core audience anymore and telling us that even though they were going to have third person they were going to give us a separate queue. Then they changed their mind about that. It was just really shameful.

Third person was just one of the many little things that added together made it seem like Piranha was not really interested in making this game.

[Triskelion]

I think most of us understand that early on, PGI screwed up in a manner that is exceptional, even for new game developers. That's horrible, but it's also been a pretty good amount of time.

Since IGP has been binned, I've found everything the PGI has been doing since that point to have been generally positive, and now that Russ (WHY DID I SAY PAUL?) in particular is more comfortable communicating and accepting that they screwed up things are actually looking promising for once.

Edited by Triskelion, 05 October 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Vassago Rain, on 05 October 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Remember the original pitch?

THIS ISN'T YOUR FATHER'S MECHWARRIOR.



Mechwarrior online: the future is WAR.

And it isnt our father's MW...our fathers MW was pretty fun and not lame like MWO....plus it didnt run like crap...despite older PCs and stuff being alot less powerful then our newer ones.

Then even the TT mechwarrior...I never played it but like once for a quick random battle when I was like 6...but it was pretty awesome none the less. Makes more sense then MWO....plus there wasnt all the QQ Clans are more powerful....and the endless lets nerf all the things we have in every game now.

[DAYLEET]

0.0001% of the player base use it, people just like to be butt hurt.

[iHover]

Quote

Is that it? Just players holding a grudge for something that doesn't affect their gameplay? Thank you for going into so much detail, but it seems really juvenile to hold it against PGI for so long, especially when their implementation avoided the competitive concerns, and now at least shows the full mech (give or take its toes). I know I appreciated it when I started. Pitches are not the finished game after all, just a 'please give us money to make something cool along these lines.'

No its just one example in a pattern of behavior Russ and PGI have displayed. They have no problem telling you one thing to get your money and then doing the opposite once they have it.

[Roadbeer]

DAYLEET, on 05 October 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

0.0001% of the player base use it, people just like to be butt hurt.

And this, my friends, is what it looks like when someone neither knows what they're talking about, nor read any portion of the thread for an answer.

3.5/10

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Again, it's just part of a long list of things that we were told "This totally won't be in game." and then got pushed in.

Cool Shot is a good example of this. [the playerbase seems to have dubbed the term coolantgate for the situation.]

Many of us were hoping that "flushing of coolant" as see in Mechwarrior 3 and 4, would be absent in all form's from this game, as it allowed players to get off additional alphastrikes for free, essentially.
PGI told us they were not looking at adding in "coolant." They then went on to add in consumable modules, and almost at the same time announced that Cool Shot would be one of these.

Consumeable modules still sit in a, strange place to me.

On the plus side, the cash versions of these are not exactly better than the "Free" cbill versions. On the other side, things like Cool Shot show that either 1)PGI had a lack of integrity to say, to our faces "we will never add coolant." and then I do believe it was literally a week later, announce a Coolant module. or 2)IGP saw that there was discussion revolving around coolant as a mechanic, being it was something present in prior titles, they may have felt it was a way to expand their playerbase, and get more money. Thus forced the issue to include such a feature.

which one, I don't care... Cool Shot, 3rd person view, all the old "You are on an island" comments. They're still there, in the back of my mind every time the devs move to do something with MWO, or a discussion comes up.

People have asked me why I'm still here, 3, nearly 4 years later. [technically I've been around MWO for over 5 years, as I was an advocate for it on Mektek back when we thought we were getting Mechwarrior 5.], to why I've spent over a grand on this game.

The answer is Mechwarrior, as a series, is important to me. It's a link to something in my life that I didn't have growing up. It's also a fun, robust universe. MWO is also the only, competitive mechwarrior game in town right now. MWLL is pretty much dead, MW4's servers are pretty much shut down... MW3 doesn't have any players...

I'm here, because there is no other alternative for Battletech based Mecha. Else I'd have left a LONG, LONG time ago to back something better.

Edited by Flash Frame, 05 October 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Roadbeer, on 05 October 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

And this, my friends, is what it looks like when someone neither knows what they're talking about, nor read any portion of the thread for an answer.

3.5/10

You see people actually use the 3pv? No you dont. You're angry because a promise was not delivered? of course you are. Now that we know that it does jackshit to the game are you still butthurt or do you let it go and live on?
ofcourse you are butthurt.

[Ghogiel]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Keep pouring on the weaksauce. I call PGI out on what they deserve, as you'd know if you reviewed my posting history (Reddit would be good for that). You want to know my pet peeve? Poor communication, lack of PR initiative, inability to tease or offer any kind of "dev diaries" or ongoing campaign. I rag on that all the time (though it's slowly, infinitesimally getting better over the course of the year).

And since this thread has a limited lifespan before reaching K-Town...

Well no. I don't want to know what your pet peeves are. But thanks for proving my point though.

[Kirkland Langue]

Bront, on 05 October 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Time will tell, and just because IGP may have been pushing many of the bad buttons in the MWO game experience doesn't mean PGI is going to right the ship either, I just think they deserve some credit for the good they have done, and the turn around they seem to have made regarding being part of the MWO community (I've seen Russ and Paul and other devs posting in threads more in September than I had since I started playing actively in June 2013). But it doesn't mean I'm going to blindly follow everything they do either. But it's a little late to crucify them for 3PV, and it seems like it might not have been their fault.

In CB, I actually argued that 3PV was going to come and that it wouldn't be the end of the world because it would be something of an incentive for people to buy skins.

So while I call upon 3PV as an example of PGI being dishonest with the community - the only reason it is even an issue is because of how PGI handled other topics. 3PV on it's own doesn't merit rage against PGI - but unfortunately, 3PV is only a single example in a long running theme.

MWO still has huge potential - but mostly because the game hasn't changed since Beta. Recent statements by the Devs have led me to believe that even a month ago, PGI had pretty much written off MWO as a finished product. I don't believe for one second that those words were scripted by IGP. The important thing is whether Russ and Co are willing to accept that the game has potential, and is nowhere near a complete product. Will such an acceptance mean more investment dollars? Of course it does - many of us who put money into the game did so because we believed we were investing towards the future of MWO. If the Devs spent the last 3 years twiddling their thumbs, that's on them. They can blame IGP all they want, but it isn't going to bring that time back.