85 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

The right thing to do would be announce CW without 3PV, because first, if someone needs 3pv to play then he dont belong in CW and second, there is still normal mode to play for fun 24/7.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

DAYLEET, on 05 October 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

The right thing to do would be announce CW without 3PV, because first, if someone needs 3pv to play then he dont belong in CW and second, there is still normal mode to play for fun 24/7.

The thing is, at this point it doesn't even matter.

The way 3rd person view was implimented, was so halfassed and broken that the intention for adding it isn't even addressed.

It's a feature, that was added, that doesn't even do what it was added to do.

it's literally, pointless.

[AEgg]

I thought it was actually a very good thing that they added third person. Probably a waste of resources of course, but that's the only downside (and not a very big one since it's not that hard to move a camera and hide the map).

When buying founders, lack of third person very nearly kept me out. All the previous MW games had it, and you never used third person for combat. You used it essentially as a "vanity mode" during the often very long walks between objectives. Much like how most (combat) flight sims have a third person view that you use for the ten minutes between taking off and where your mission starts. Then you switch to first person to actually do things.

As it turned out, MWO didn't actually have those long periods of nothing happening that the older games did. So third person doesn't really do much for it. But it is nice to be able to see what your camo spec actually looks like ingame (since the mechbay doesn't use the same lighting engine or filters as the game does).

The downsides to a third person view are zero. There was a big fuss over using it for an advantage, but in a game like this that's negligible at best. I don't understand why people feel like it breaks immersion, to me it does the opposite, reminding me that I'm controlling a mech every now and then, not just a HUD with a pile of lasers. Admittedly if the cockpit view felt more like a cockpit and less like a facemask for a thirty foot tall human, I could see their point. But it's very difficult to make a cockpit view that doesn't give you the impression that you are the mech rather than the person controlling it.

[Tincan Nightmare]

The funny thing about the rage for 3PV is that its just a drop in the bucket compared to the raging inferno that was the forum when ECM first came out. Now that was some angry people and a huge backlash against PGI. In comparison, 3PV is a footnote and only relevant as an example of PGI's track record. The sad thing is, I've been on this forum since it launched, before the game was even playable in CB. Back then, it was mostly positive postings and people throwing out ideas and concerns for the game. In fact, if PGI had paid more attention then, issues such as poptarting, lrmaggedon, 6PPC Stalkers, etc... had been laid out a loooonnnngggg time before they even appeared in the game by players. So the current level of vitriol and hated that is so common around here any more is kinda like karma, PGI reaping what they have sown from broken promises and just horrible communication with its players. Hopefully, now that they have broken with IGP, PGI can repair some of that damage and progress the game in a better direction. They have been off to a good start lately, hopefully they can maintain that.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

AEgg, on 05 October 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

I thought it was actually a very good thing that they added third person. Probably a waste of resources of course, but that's the only downside (and not a very big one since it's not that hard to move a camera and hide the map).

When buying founders, lack of third person very nearly kept me out. All the previous MW games had it, and you never used third person for combat. You used it essentially as a "vanity mode" during the often very long walks between objectives. Much like how most (combat) flight sims have a third person view that you use for the ten minutes between taking off and where your mission starts. Then you switch to first person to actually do things.

As it turned out, MWO didn't actually have those long periods of nothing happening that the older games did. So third person doesn't really do much for it. But it is nice to be able to see what your camo spec actually looks like ingame (since the mechbay doesn't use the same lighting engine or filters as the game does).

The downsides to a third person view are zero. There was a big fuss over using it for an advantage, but in a game like this that's negligible at best. I don't understand why people feel like it breaks immersion, to me it does the opposite, reminding me that I'm controlling a mech every now and then, not just a HUD with a pile of lasers. Admittedly if the cockpit view felt more like a cockpit and less like a facemask for a thirty foot tall human, I could see their point. But it's very difficult to make a cockpit view that doesn't give you the impression that you are the mech rather than the person controlling it.

You CLEARLY, never played MW4 Mercs at a competitive level.

3rd person view was not just a "Vanity" mode... you had full tactical information, as well as targeting reticle, AND you gained a hugely enhanced view of the battlefield. The Ability to Peak over things you normally couldn't without being detected, ect.

it breaks Imersion, because the point of the game is that you're a pilot INSIDE a mech. you shouldn't be looking around the outside of your mech while you're INSIDE IT DRIVING.

You are... god I don't even know where to start with all the things your post has wrong.

[AEgg]

Flash Frame, on 05 October 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

You CLEARLY, never played MW4 Mercs at a competitive level.

3rd person view was not just a "Vanity" mode... you had full tactical information, as well as targeting reticle, AND you gained a hugely enhanced view of the battlefield. The Ability to Peak over things you normally couldn't without being detected, ect.

it breaks Imersion, because the point of the game is that you're a pilot INSIDE a mech. you shouldn't be looking around the outside of your mech while you're INSIDE IT DRIVING.

You are... god I don't even know where to start with all the things your post has wrong.

I never played any of the previous mechwarrior games online. I always thought of their online modes as a complete joke, seeing as the games were hardly balanced for singleplayer, let alone multiplayer. Not to mention playing any first-person game over dial up was controlled mostly by latency.

Immersion is a tricky thing to describe, since it really varies person-to-person. For me, sticking in first person always feels like I AM the vehicle, not someone controlling it, particularly for humanoid-esque things like mechs, but the same applies to tanks in games like battlefield. I think it's the fixed head position, and the lack of an actual "cockpit" that you interact with. It's more like you just have this random HUD and you can see through what is clearly solid metal from the outside. So third person just makes it more clear. To each his own, I guess.

[Jeon Ji Yoon]

I actually use 3 person view to entertain myself early in the match... it keeps me from running off and dying

[Darth Futuza]

Flash Frame, on 05 October 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

You CLEARLY, never played MW4 Mercs at a competitive level.

3rd person view was not just a "Vanity" mode... you had full tactical information, as well as targeting reticle, AND you gained a hugely enhanced view of the battlefield. The Ability to Peak over things you normally couldn't without being detected, ect.

it breaks Imersion, because the point of the game is that you're a pilot INSIDE a mech. you shouldn't be looking around the outside of your mech while you're INSIDE IT DRIVING.

You are... god I don't even know where to start with all the things your post has wrong.

I'm not saying the guy who you responded to was right or anything...but I will point out that 3pv in MWO doesn't give you those advantages, nor does it really break immersion (at least for me), since it is realistically explained that you have a drone outside of your mech. We have tech now that can do that.

Quote

it's literally, pointless.

But removing it would be pointless so we might as well keep it, especially since it CAN be useful for non-game things (eg: making videos/vanity, etc)

[Gremlich Johns]

I like when someone on the other side uses 3PV because it allows me to identify and locate a target that my team can kill.

[krash27]

Why on earth would someone bring up this long dead issue if not to troll?

[Rick Rawlings]

Darth Futuza, on 05 October 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

I'm not saying the guy who you responded to was right or anything...but I will point out that 3pv in MWO doesn't give you those advantages

Wait, wut? The only reason I see people use it at this late date is to peek over ridges to get a feel for enemy positions and composition on the approach...

[JoJoxy]

Rhaegor, on 05 October 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

I had a girl cheat on my once back in college, she apologized, in fact she begged and cried for forgiveness. It did not matter. Just saying. Trust is a really hard thing to regain or repair once damaged or lost.

I hope you didn't stalk that girl for the next two years and told everyone she knew or met how unworthy of trust she was

[The Wakelord]

krash27, on 05 October 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Why on earth would someone bring up this long dead issue if not to troll?

As the OP I saw people still keep bringing it up or demanding it get removed ASAP, and the amount of anger seemed way out of proportion. Was curious, so asked.

[IceSerpent]

Darth Futuza, on 05 October 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

But removing it would be pointless so we might as well keep it, especially since it CAN be useful for non-game things (eg: making videos/vanity, etc)

Private matches are much better for making videos, as you can stage things. There are no advantages to having it enabled in public matches - all you get is folks who either run in 3PV all the time because they don't know any better and folks who do it "to entertain themselves". Having either kind on your team is not exactly conductive towards winning a match.

[Darth Futuza]

Rick Rawlings, on 05 October 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Wait, wut? The only reason I see people use it at this late date is to peek over ridges to get a feel for enemy positions and composition on the approach...

I don't think losing your map display data is worth it.

[IceSerpent]

Darth Futuza, on 05 October 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

I don't think losing your map display data is worth it.

You only lose it for a few seconds while you're taking a look.

[Darth Futuza]

IceSerpent, on 05 October 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

You only lose it for a few seconds while you're taking a look.

...there are more drawbacks then just that, which I'm sure you are more than aware of. I still don't think it is worth it, or provides someone with any significant advantage.

[Zoid]

I dunno about anyone else but I know 3rd person ruined MW4 for me. It made it so that you could see over a hill when poptarting without exposing yourself, so you'd only need to just barely pop over and you could fire without having to find a target. I'm very glad it really doesn't exist here.

Edited by Zoid, 05 October 2014 - 07:34 PM.

[Rick Rawlings]

Darth Futuza, on 05 October 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

...there are more drawbacks then just that, which I'm sure you are more than aware of. I still don't think it is worth it, or provides someone with any significant advantage.

It's not worth 3 seconds of someone's time to see everything on the other side of the numerous ridges, hills and structures that this works for?

[Hades Trooper]

The Wakelord, on 05 October 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Ok so.

From what I've garned, the old-hands hate third person view, and that PGI were forced to implement it.

Can anyone explain to me why it is so hated?

Pros:
- Can see your mech from behind (exploitable to easier see if you are getting hit?)
- Can judge the ground better (exploitable to easier limit fall damage?)
- Can see over hills (exploitable for LRM rain)

Cons:
- Everyone can see where you are thanks to the flashing light
- You have no map
- It is near impossible to aim for anything other than LRM/SRM
- People randomly hate on you

From what I can see,
- It is not hated because it is new: If memory serves, mechwarrior 2 on the Windows 95 had 3PV, so this isn't one of a kind, and we certainly had 3PV for the tabletop.
- It isn't hated because it is overpowered, which we can see because so people use it. We'
- It isn't hated because we're forced to use it (if you don't like it, don't use it)

So why?

3PV is bad, it gives away your position too easy. thats stupid 3PV camera is just asking for people to kill you with air and arti strikes and tell which way your going without need for a uav