81 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 06 October 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Fair enough. I still think it's weak to not have it affect movement, but you're right about the "wild bi-polar nerf/buff yo-yo".

I would be more keen on the Movement reduction if we can get them to remove this idiotic 15 kph stunlock when you get hit when legged. Once that is gone *coughRusscough* then yeah, drop 20% off the speed or something, if there is still need for more.

But I have a feeling, if one took the TW out of the picture, and then really looked at the rest of the Clan Mechs after this, we are getting real close. It's the TW, and to a lesser Degree the SC and DW I think that need addressed as individual chassis, not global clan nerfs as a whole, at this point.

[Russ Bullock]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

once elited, won't that drop the cooldown rate down to GH level again?

There are 25 modules being added - my understanding is that it was just the AC2 anc clan AC2's that were not getting the cool down modules - the rest should be present.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I doubt it - the clan side torso destruction I think is a fairly minimum penalty.

Is it a penalty at all? Let's make 2/3 of possible engine destruction what it is, not 2-3 heatsink loss.

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 06 October 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I doubt it - the clan side torso destruction I think is a fairly minimum penalty.

Oh and we should have the new game mode voting system in place - hoping that helps with group queue noticeably.

If its so unnoticeable why waste the time to implement it? Just curious?

I think the Clans have been nerfed plenty the Challenge over the weekend seems to support that idea. But we will see how much more slapping (you all think) the TBR needs before it makes it to Cbills.

Edited by DarthRevis, 06 October 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

once elited, won't that drop the cooldown rate down to GH level again?

CLB2X does not have Ghost Heat.

[Ozric]

Was there some talk of trial mechs getting their own tab in the mechbay this patch too?

[Bishop Steiner]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 06 October 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Is it a penalty at all? Let's make 2/3 of possible engine destruction what it is, not 2-3 heatsink loss.

DarthRevis, on 06 October 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

If its so unnoticeable why waste the time to implement it? Just curious?

I think the Clans have been nerfed plenty the Challenge over the weekend seems to support that idea. But we will see how much more slapping (you all think) the TBR needs before it makes it to Cbills.

baby steps dude, baby steps.

We are at the point, sans the TW outlier, where huge nerfs are not needed. I would rather they take small steps on the nerf wagon, than fall back into the previous model of massaging the game with a jackhammer.

Most of the Clan Chassis are on the tipping point as it is, and are usually in wild heat burden when they lose 1 side already (you know how many extra DHS most clan mech are packing? I do) and even this, when added to the heat nerf from the last round of adjustments, may cause a LOT of builds to be less viable.

Lets see how it plays out, and then see if more is required.

And let's focus maybe on the chassis outliers, instead of pushing the Nova, Adder, Summoner, etc even further down the tier ladder.

El Bandito, on 06 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

CLB2X does not have Ghost Heat.

last I checked neither did AC2s, but by hitting the .5 cutoff, it was activating it anyhow?

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

last I checked neither did AC2s, but by hitting the .5 cutoff, it was activating it anyhow?

IS AC2 and C-AC2 both have GH. Same deal with CUAC2.

Smurfy it, dude.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

Only CLB2X does not have GH from the AC2 family.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 October 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 06 October 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

IS AC2 and C-AC2 both have GH. Same deal with CUAC2.

Smurfy it, dude.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

Only CLB2X does not have GH from the AC2 family.

don't hold your breath on that lasting if the DakkaWhales keep things up.

[Redshift2k5]

Clan torso destruction is not much of a penalty if your clan mech is built symmetrical, but if you build it with a 'hot side' and a 'shield side' then losing your shield side will have a small impact on the damage output of the remaining gun side (losing not only whatever heat sinks & ammo may have been in the shield side but also a portion of raw engine heat sink power)

[DONTOR]

Ultimatum X, on 06 October 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

When they lose their STs they also lose a pile of heatsinks, on top of that I'm pretty sure you are losing true 2.0 DHS as part of that -20%.


It's a target with reduced cooling, reduced weapons, that can no longer safely spread damage to it's other ST on mechs that rarely are designed with arms that absorb ST damage - anyone who still wants to cry about this needs to find their big boy pants.

The Humongous couldn't have said it better himself!

[El Bandito]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Yes good catch these are present as well.

Also even though the new Rewards table I have mentioned is not in the build yet, the new way for displaying the rewards in the HUD is. You can set it back to classic in the settings.

Thank you for the info Russ. On a slightly related note, could you take a look into the AC2 family? AC2s now have lower DPS than the AC5 family after the nerfs but still cause twice as much heat output. AC10s and AC20s also have higher heat than AC5 but at least those big ACs have higher DPS than the AC5s.

Why does the AC2 still retain such high heat?

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

don't hold your breath on that lasting if the DakkaWhales keep things up.

Actually, CLB2X Dakkawhale is far weaker than the CUAC5 Dakkawhale, both in terms of damage, and precision. I wouldn't worry about it any time soon.

I spent 4-5 tons of CLB2X ammo just to kill one or two enemies from 400 meters away. That's incredibly inefficient. The sound CLB2Xs make though, is pure bliss.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 October 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Actually, it's not about nerfing clanners, it's about proper Engine crits implementation in general, which is a big deal. Right now many assaults have more inner structure alone, than some mediums have armor+structure, I guess. And it's wrong to have this 'second armor' without any penalties. Once the CT armor is gone, you are playing with fire and can catch Engine crits freely. It would make assaults more balanced with other mechs.

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 06 October 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[1453 R]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I doubt it - the clan side torso destruction I think is a fairly minimum penalty.

Oh and we should have the new game mode voting system in place - hoping that helps with group queue noticeably.

Play your Conquest mode tonight folks, because starting tomorrow you'll never see it again outside private matchmaking. Let the Skirmish trollfacery begin.

*Sigh*

Edited by 1453 R, 06 October 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[627]

How about some new hero mech? Are there. even mechs left without one, beside pheonix mechs?

Edited by 627, 06 October 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[1453 R]

627, on 06 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

How about some new hero mech? Are there. even mechs left without one?

Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Locust. Off the top of my head.

Edited by 1453 R, 06 October 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

1453 R, on 06 October 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Locust. Off the top of my head.

Hero Shadow Hawk Please!

[FupDup]

Any AC/2 with the cooldown mod wouldn't even trigger ghost heat in the first place unless you used it on a mech that has built-in cooldown quirks.


Maths:
0.72 base cooldown * (0.05 fast fire skill + 0.12 level 5 module) = 0.72 * 0.17 = 0.1224
0.72 - 0.1224 = 0.5976

Note that ghost heat requires a 0.5s delay, which puts the AC/2 in the clear by 0.9s if it got a level 5 cooldown module.

Oh, and the C-AC/2 actually has a cooldown of 0.8s, which makes it even safer from ghost heat:
0.8 * 0.17 = 0.136
0.8 - 0.136 = 0.664


There isn't any reason not to at least level the playing field by letting 2-rated ACs have cooldown mods (give that everything else will get them). And even if it did trigger ghost heat (which it doesn't, as proven above) then I would be willing to accept the extra heat so that I could deal spike damage in short spurts and then stop firing to cool down, as opposed to having the cooldown artificially held back to prevent me from having that situational choice.

Edited by FupDup, 06 October 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[Escef]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Intriguing.

Of course, even if it had nothing else....I got October 21 marked on the calendar because: CN9-AH baby!!!!



whoooooooooooohoooooo!ç

My "White Knight" steed awaits! I will plague the Haters, naysayers, Black Knights and all comers from my trusty mount!

We can make it a new Hero Cent and we shall call it...

Edited by Escef, 06 October 2014 - 10:08 AM.