81 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 06 October 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

We can make it a new Hero Cent and we shall call it...
http://youtu.be/gDnE-5lD7w8

I'd take it. Though am still hoping to achieve MWO immortality with the Deputy Dawg Urbanmech.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

baby steps dude, baby steps.

We are at the point, sans the TW outlier, where huge nerfs are not needed. I would rather they take small steps on the nerf wagon, than fall back into the previous model of massaging the game with a jackhammer.

Most of the Clan Chassis are on the tipping point as it is, and are usually in wild heat burden when they lose 1 side already (you know how many extra DHS most clan mech are packing? I do) and even this, when added to the heat nerf from the last round of adjustments, may cause a LOT of builds to be less viable.

Lets see how it plays out, and then see if more is required.

And let's focus maybe on the chassis outliers, instead of pushing the Nova, Adder, Summoner, etc even further down the tier ladder.


last I checked neither did AC2s, but by hitting the .5 cutoff, it was activating it anyhow?

I know that we are at that point...which is why i asked why it was even necessary to implement it? Man power and time vs benefits? Not my place to say, not my business but i was generally curious. I am never against giving the game a more realistic feel or getting close to Simulation/Real life effects. But i feel the same way you seem to feel...please stop hurting the main mechs when the outliers are still unaffected. Hurting all mechs more doesn't stop the TBR from being king of the pile. Its just moves the bar down for the rest and keeps the TBR at the same realtive spot in the arsenal. The TBR with locked JJ;s in the S torso will help some of these builds and issues. But many clan mechs i have are unusable until i rebuild them. Which will not happen until these nerfs/quirks/total blow ups stop and i can quit spending 500,000 -1,000,000 plus cbills every time i log on to make these mechs even just somewhat heat manageable and useable.

It's just silly that i must spend the money constantly....I will just wait until January I guess to break my other clan mechs back out. Other meaning everything outside the TBR and DWF because NOTHING you have done has forced me to change builds on them only the other mechs have been affected which we all claim are not the issue and not the target but still get the treatment.

Now a SHD Hero.....me likey the sounds of that!

Edited by DarthRevis, 06 October 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Eddrick]

1453 R, on 06 October 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Locust. Off the top of my head.

TDR-5S-T Thunderbolt Tallman
The personal ‘Mech of Bremond DMM commander Leftenant-General Mary Tallman during the DCMS's Third Succession War invasion of Galtor III, only the large laser remains, with the rest of the standard weaponry replaced with a brace of four medium lasers in each side torso. The remaining weight and space is devoted to eight additional heat sinks.

Shadowhawk has one that is later in the timeline. It comes with just a Heavy PPC and a Light PPC. Named, "Sandy"

Locust and Wolverine don't have one at all listed on Sarna. Shadowhawk, Wolverine, and Locust would probably have to be made up.

[Merit Lef]

Nice work for gathering all this info for us. Thanks.....even got Russ to confirm your points. Well done.

[Coolant]

sad to hear AC2's won't be getting a cooldown module

[Escef]

Eddrick, on 06 October 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

TDR-5S-T Thunderbolt Tallman
The personal ‘Mech of Bremond DMM commander Leftenant-General Mary Tallman during the DCMS's Third Succession War invasion of Galtor III, only the large laser remains, with the rest of the standard weaponry replaced with a brace of four medium lasers in each side torso. The remaining weight and space is devoted to eight additional heat sinks.

Shadowhawk has one that is later in the timeline. It comes with just a Heavy PPC and a Light PPC. Named, "Sandy"

Locust and Wolverine don't have one at all listed on Sarna. Shadowhawk, Wolverine, and Locust would probably have to be made up.

Well, there's a notable Locust pilot named Savannah. The Savannah Master hovercraft was named such to mock her. Or the Locust pilot mentioned in the story section in the back of the old CityTech rules.

The original TRO3025 mentions a Shadowhawk pilot that survived not 1, but 2 tangles with Natasha Kerensky's Black Widows.

There was a Wolverine pilot that downed a Battlemaster with a lucky SRM6 to the face. Or, we could paint one up in Word of Blake appropriate colors and make a McEvedy reference.

[Russ Bullock]

There is also a nice improvement pass on the Store in the UI

[Ultimax]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

There is also a nice improvement pass on the Store in the UI

OK now you're just fishing for likes.

[Morang]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

There is also a nice improvement pass on the Store in the UI

Will trial mech spam in the "Owned" filter in MechLab be removed?

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I doubt it - the clan side torso destruction I think is a fairly minimum penalty.

Oh and we should have the new game mode voting system in place - hoping that helps with group queue noticeably.

I still have concerns that this may have a larger impact on the already weaker chassis, such as the Adder, Mad Dog and Summoner. I find that these mechs all loose side torso as easily as an Awesome, and judging from the concept art I would expected the same of the Gargoyle and Hellbringer. Also dose this mean that mechs such as the Adder that have 8 engine heat sinks and 2 fixed external heat sinks will still loose 20% cooling from side torso destruction?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Considering most of my Medium, Heavy and Assault Clan Mechs are running into massive heat issues even with half their guns gone (because shocker, a huge number of DHS usually are gone to, when you lose a side), even that "weak" nerf, will really hurt anything not relying mostly on gauss or medium ballistics.

Also, I for one would rather them start small, then increase as needed, then the wild bi-polar nerf/buff yo-yo we were operating under. Remember the Victor? Or Jjs?

Yeah I am a bit wary about this as well. I already feel Clan mechs are over penalized on heat (would have rather seen a straight laser damage nerf than heat nerf like they did), so adding a 20% additional penalty to heat might have a heck of alot more effect that people think.

Honestly though, I think I am actually all for the penalty to be honest and I know that is surprising coming from a Clanner.

However, I am a bit concerned about the results of the tourney showing that aside from Clan Assaults, Clan mechs seem to have been toned down into a semblance of balance without the XL change or fixing of JJs to variants that we might be venturing into over-nerf land here. Then again, if it eventually means they will ease up on the heat with Clan mechs, I am all for it.

[Crotch RockIt]

When are the fixed JJ's for Timberwolf and Kitfox coming?

Edited by Crotch RockIt, 06 October 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eddrick, on 06 October 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

TDR-5S-T Thunderbolt Tallman
The personal ‘Mech of Bremond DMM commander Leftenant-General Mary Tallman during the DCMS's Third Succession War invasion of Galtor III, only the large laser remains, with the rest of the standard weaponry replaced with a brace of four medium lasers in each side torso. The remaining weight and space is devoted to eight additional heat sinks.

Shadowhawk has one that is later in the timeline. It comes with just a Heavy PPC and a Light PPC. Named, "Sandy"

Locust and Wolverine don't have one at all listed on Sarna. Shadowhawk, Wolverine, and Locust would probably have to be made up.

That's if you go by custom variants in canon, which they have hardly stuck to. Plenty of notable pilots.

[Redshift2k5]

Crotch RockIt, on 06 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

When are the fixed JJ's for Timberwolf and Kitfox coming?

Scheduled for Oct 21st

[Dracol]

My prediction on the outcome of the Clan XL change:
- Asymmetrical build pilots will be affected the most, but probably won't qq much
- Symmetrical build pilots will fall into one of two categories:

• Those who constantly lose a side torso will feel it affects their performance and will qq
  
• Those who know how to torso twist will work to minimize torso loss (as they do now) and won't qq

- IS players who have trouble against clans will still have issue and will call for further nerfs
- Other IS players will get better at spotting weak torsos and taking them out

Edited by Dracol, 06 October 2014 - 12:15 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Morang, on 06 October 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Will trial mech spam in the "Owned" filter in MechLab be removed?

Yes, the trial mechs are being moved to the trial tab only, tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/...324482013569025

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 06 October 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[Gyrok]

stjobe, on 06 October 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Hence the crying - from the IS side.

It's not really much of a penalty; you cut out all the important things and reduced it to a mere 20% less capacity and dissipation.

It's weak.

Like so many of the clan weapons, aside from energy weapons...which means they carry more energy weapons...which already run too hot...

Edited by Gyrok, 06 October 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Russ Bullock, on 06 October 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

There is also a nice improvement pass on the Store in the UI

Ultimatum X, on 06 October 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

OK now you're just fishing for likes.

Russ is spamming the thread with Informative material and things I like!!!

I'm sure he has better things to do with his time but it great to see constant contact and information out of PGI! Also makes my SCR feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

Edited by DarthRevis, 06 October 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 06 October 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Any AC/2 with the cooldown mod wouldn't even trigger ghost heat in the first place unless you used it on a mech that has built-in cooldown quirks.


Maths:
0.72 base cooldown * (0.05 fast fire skill + 0.12 level 5 module) = 0.72 * 0.17 = 0.1224
0.72 - 0.1224 = 0.5976

Note that ghost heat requires a 0.5s delay, which puts the AC/2 in the clear by 0.9s if it got a level 5 cooldown module.

Oh, and the C-AC/2 actually has a cooldown of 0.8s, which makes it even safer from ghost heat:
0.8 * 0.17 = 0.136
0.8 - 0.136 = 0.664


There isn't any reason not to at least level the playing field by letting 2-rated ACs have cooldown mods (give that everything else will get them). And even if it did trigger ghost heat (which it doesn't, as proven above) then I would be willing to accept the extra heat so that I could deal spike damage in short spurts and then stop firing to cool down, as opposed to having the cooldown artificially held back to prevent me from having that situational choice.

Fup, the issue is that the timing bugs out and is inconsistent. Sometimes, firing multiple AC2's in a group, they'll slip a fraction of a second out of sync. When this happens, the window of cooldown time shrinks.

Also, there are mechs currently with ballistic cooldown reductions and/or ac2 cooldown reductions (dragon, for example, and there may be more post-patch).


But regardless, I'd beg Russ if anything to really address why AC2's require ghost heat at all. Its very problematic with such a rapid firing weapon. Just firing 2 ac2's in two different groups will trigger ghost heat if they're not fired at almost exactly the same moment.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Fup, the issue is that the timing bugs out and is inconsistent. Sometimes, firing multiple AC2's in a group, they'll slip a fraction of a second out of sync. When this happens, the window of cooldown time shrinks.

I don't think we should hold back modules just to "compensate" for bugs, especially when the weapon in question is already sub-par as it is (its relative standing is made worse by every other weapon getting a 12% cooldown reduction).

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Also, there are mechs currently with ballistic cooldown reductions and/or ac2 cooldown reductions (dragon, for example, and there may be more post-patch).

WTB AC/2 cooldown quirks for Raven 4X.

Or Shad 2H for that matter, so I'd have a real reason to use it over my other Shads...

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

But regardless, I'd beg Russ if anything to really address why AC2's require ghost heat at all. Its very problematic with such a rapid firing weapon. Just firing 2 ac2's in two different groups will trigger ghost heat if they're not fired at almost exactly the same moment.

I've always stood by the belief that the way to "fix" the old 6 AC/2 Jagers was to just drastically reduce the impulse of an AC/2 shell, without nerfing the cooldown from its original state. Paul didn't share that belief.