174 replies to this topic

[Rush Maguin]

Sibco, on 02 July 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I am glad I took the time to read this post. I haven't played much in the way of tabletop due to lack of interest from those around me, but I have always had an affinity for it and would love to get more invested in it. I greatly appreciate your accomplishment in this arena and would like to read more stories like these.

Honestly I would love to become a real battletech tabletop player. When I was a kid (I'm 28 now) my dad got me a very basic battletech tabletop game with cardboard cutouts and rudimentary rules, and while I did play and enjoy it I don't think I got anywhere near the full flavor of the game.

what would be a good product for a budding mechwarrior/battletech enthusiast to start learning tabletop?

Hello Sibco. To start learning tabletop, pick up the Battletech Starter Box Set. It's a steal here on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co...ords=battletech

Following that, I suggest Technical Readout: 3039, which expands on the mechs (and history) of the basic boxed set - a must for any beginner:

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_t_4

From there, you may even want to get your hands on some historical battles and the start of new technology spawning in the Battletech universe. The War of 3039 is a great buy, as is Starterbook: Sword and Dragon:

http://www.amazon.co...rds=war+of+3039

http://www.amazon.co...word+and+dragon

After that, the sky is the limit. You can stick with just the Boxed Set and TRO: 3039 by themselves and play the game for literally years with little else. After that, it's all about what you want from the game. Advanced rules? Total Warfare, Tactical Operations, Strategic Operations. Construction and weapon rules? TechManual. Want to climb out of the mech and into the action? A Time of War. Clan Invasion buff? Era Report 3052 and Era Report 3062 have you covered, along with TRO: 3050, TRO: 3055, TRO: 3058, TRO: 3060. After the introductory mats, your only limit is your own sense of taste.

[Beazle]

There is also a freeware program out there called MegaMek, which does a very good job of recreating the board game on a computer.

I haven't actually sat at a table and played BT in a couple of years, but i'm running 2 campaigns using MegaMek with friends around the world.

There are also numerous programs out there that can help you with mech design and customization.

[Rush Maguin]

Hey Beazle, have you seen their work on Mechwarrior Tactics? Looks quite promising!

[GreyKer]

Very nice story, though it lacks one minor thing. I would have loved a chance to see a picture of the battlefield, at some point of the battle, just to get a feel of the scale. Other than that you captured the mood well I think

Enjoy the MWO and hopefuly it will be less plagued by bully-boys.

[phelan]

Great thread, Rush. Always love hearing other long time die-hards war stories. Battletech is one of the rare tabletop games that creates those kind of events that stick with you for years and years. That's why I have remained so deeply entrenched in the universe for so long!

[Rush Maguin]

GreyKer, on 03 July 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

Very nice story, though it lacks one minor thing. I would have loved a chance to see a picture of the battlefield, at some point of the battle, just to get a feel of the scale. Other than that you captured the mood well I think

Enjoy the MWO and hopefuly it will be less plagued by bully-boys.

I wish I could have. Back then, Cameras weren't the pocket friendly microtechnology we have today and a Kodak Disc wasn't known for epic resolution. I do think the bully-hosts snapped some pics of their own, but what came of those I have no idea. Considering their defeat they may not have been too resolved to keep them. If I'd known there was anything at a 1991 gaming convention to photograph I would hav ebrought something along, I'm sure - I just wasn't expecting anything there to snap. Hindsight, and all that.

phelan, on 03 July 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

Great thread, Rush. Always love hearing other long time die-hards war stories. Battletech is one of the rare tabletop games that creates those kind of events that stick with you for years and years. That's why I have remained so deeply entrenched in the universe for so long!

BAttletech's rare on many levels. Getting stuck in with the story is just one part - and in my opinion, definitely the best.

[phelan]

Rush Maguin, on 03 July 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

BAttletech's rare on many levels. Getting stuck in with the story is just one part - and in my opinion, definitely the best.

Very true! I'll have to type up a few of my favorite little anecdotes to share when I get the chance.

[Beazle]

Rush Maguin, on 02 July 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Hey Beazle, have you seen their work on Mechwarrior Tactics? Looks quite promising!

Ya, it looks like it should be fun for random match ups, but MegaMek will still be my tool for campaign style play.

[Rush Maguin]

Beazle, on 03 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Ya, it looks like it should be fun for random match ups, but MegaMek will still be my tool for campaign style play.

I've never been able to get Megamek to work right... :/

[ice trey]

Oh man... Oh man... That's a great battle report. Not very crunchy, but conveys the emotion of the match very well. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friends and brother as colleagues in Battletech. Frankly, I don't blame them for leaving, if those guys are the kinds of guys you end up facing in your area. That said, you can tell that FASA had a horrible idea by making that Mechforce thing - It made the game too competitive, and there were no neutral parties involved.

I'm glad that these days, Battletech doesn't support a points ladder of any sort. These days, the demo team give scenarios that depict the setting, or run free-for-alls that let you get a taste of your 'mechs. The age of the hypercompetitive tourneyjerk has - in my eyes - long since left the game. Especially now that we have systems like Battle Value, it's actually very hard to get away with such blatant disregard for game balance as what you experienced.

Like you said, the kind of guys you faced (I am pretty sure that they'd qualify as "Munchkins") are some of the worst the tabletop gaming community has to offer, and I tend to find that the more popular a tabletop game is, the higher proportion of Munchkins and Neckbeards you'll find. When Battletech was in it's peak, I wouldn't be surprised that one would find those kinds of players in the community. However, the thing is that the smaller a community is, the higher the likelyhood the Munchkins will move on; when they pull their tricks, they'll find people will refuse to play against them, and in smaller gaming communities, that means nobody to play with at all - so it's off to the next best thing to PWN some NOOBs in. These were the same types that would be attracted to clan tech back then and try to balance forces 1:1 for tonnage against IS players with 3025 technologies.

That mentality isn't exclusive to tabletop, though. You can see that sort of mentality break into internet games, too. That's partly why I'm such a huge advocate of game balance in MWO. Everyone wants the Devastators and Highlanders because they're some of the best 'mechs out there, but they don't stop to consider what will happen to game balance in MWO. Will the Atlas and Stalker be rendered obsolete? Unfortunately, this "play to win" mentality also trickles into the online Megamek servers a lot of the time, because - of course - there's always a ready supply of players to be a total jerkwad towards, so playing online is not really the best way to prove that IRL players are better than they were.

But seriously, if you CAN manage to bring your guys back for one more game, I HIGHLY suggest you take them to at least try a game of Battletech at a convention, and I can all but guarantee you that it will be like night and day. Battletech games run by demo team members do not involve the demo team members unless they need players to fill the roster - and even then, the demo team members will sometimes play handicapped. One is all it takes - a Grinder match, maybe - or one of the Solaris 7 matches will do. If it's been that long, you might want to stay away from the big games, until you get back into the swing of things.

I hope all the best for you and I'm glad to hear you're fighting on in the 31st century.

[Rush Maguin]

ice trey, on 03 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Oh man... Oh man... That's a great battle report. Not very crunchy, but conveys the emotion of the match very well. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friends and brother as colleagues in Battletech. Frankly, I don't blame them for leaving, if those guys are the kinds of guys you end up facing in your area. That said, you can tell that FASA had a horrible idea by making that Mechforce thing - It made the game too competitive, and there were no neutral parties involved.

I'm glad that these days, Battletech doesn't support a points ladder of any sort. These days, the demo team give scenarios that depict the setting, or run free-for-alls that let you get a taste of your 'mechs. The age of the hypercompetitive tourneyjerk has - in my eyes - long since left the game. Especially now that we have systems like Battle Value, it's actually very hard to get away with such blatant disregard for game balance as what you experienced.

Like you said, the kind of guys you faced (I am pretty sure that they'd qualify as "Munchkins") are some of the worst the tabletop gaming community has to offer, and I tend to find that the more popular a tabletop game is, the higher proportion of Munchkins and Neckbeards you'll find. When Battletech was in it's peak, I wouldn't be surprised that one would find those kinds of players in the community. However, the thing is that the smaller a community is, the higher the likelyhood the Munchkins will move on; when they pull their tricks, they'll find people will refuse to play against them, and in smaller gaming communities, that means nobody to play with at all - so it's off to the next best thing to PWN some NOOBs in. These were the same types that would be attracted to clan tech back then and try to balance forces 1:1 for tonnage against IS players with 3025 technologies.

That mentality isn't exclusive to tabletop, though. You can see that sort of mentality break into internet games, too. That's partly why I'm such a huge advocate of game balance in MWO. Everyone wants the Devastators and Highlanders because they're some of the best 'mechs out there, but they don't stop to consider what will happen to game balance in MWO. Will the Atlas and Stalker be rendered obsolete? Unfortunately, this "play to win" mentality also trickles into the online Megamek servers a lot of the time, because - of course - there's always a ready supply of players to be a total jerkwad towards, so playing online is not really the best way to prove that IRL players are better than they were.

But seriously, if you CAN manage to bring your guys back for one more game, I HIGHLY suggest you take them to at least try a game of Battletech at a convention, and I can all but guarantee you that it will be like night and day. Battletech games run by demo team members do not involve the demo team members unless they need players to fill the roster - and even then, the demo team members will sometimes play handicapped. One is all it takes - a Grinder match, maybe - or one of the Solaris 7 matches will do. If it's been that long, you might want to stay away from the big games, until you get back into the swing of things.

I hope all the best for you and I'm glad to hear you're fighting on in the 31st century.

Thanks, Ice. I made a point to keep it a little un-crunchy so as not to be buried in technicalities. The tabletop vets might understand it but we've had people come through this thread who haven't played yet, so making the story accessible took a front seat over rule details. I agree with the bad sportsmanship vibe, there - it's in every game, but some places it's worse than others. Miniatures wargaming very definitely has a lion's share. Mechforce really was a bad idea. I liked the idea of Battletech having its own bona fide community, but some jerks can't separate the game from some placebo accomplishment that makes them feel better about life. If winning a game of Battletech can pay my rent or a medical bill or car insurance, I might take it that seriously too (to my ultimate detriment, of course; when the game becomes more rage fest than good fun, everyone loses). Being that's still just a fun afternoon, it's incomprehensible how anyone can get worked up about it that far. I used to tell rage trolls (for whatever good it did) on any given MMO, "You win, great. Boot up the next battle. Nothing's changed. You lose, great. Boot up the next battle. Nothing's changed."

[wanderer]

Heh. I'm another one of those oldtimer MechForce players- and I keep my championship plaque to this day to remind me what it means to be good, vs. simply trying to be the "winner" at any cost.

The Northeastern championships were called "Operation Green Flag", and the local BT game group in PA were the organizers- and entered multiple lances (4 player groups) in to boot.

Me and three of my friends went, too. Road trip for a pack of high schoolers, woo!

They had random packs of four 'Mechs of a given weight that were roughly balanced for each round- first lights, then mediums, etc etc up to the championship. Your group lost, you were eliminated.

Well, we got ourselves in our lights- I had a Panther and went at it. We had one of the host group's lances for a first opponent.

Round 1, my first shot, long range was my PPC blowing the head off their Valkyrie. Oh, did THAT tick them off! So I led them in a merry chase across the map, where they obsessively went after my 'Mech in spite of the other three on my team tearing them new holes doing so.

By the end, I'd taken no crits, lost most of my armor and a few dots of internals- but the Valkyrie was still dead and a Javelin was faceplanted with a gyro and an engine hit, where the next round would have been a sure kill. We advanced, they were STILL ticked.

Mediums. Against the OTHER host team. It was more even, but the final blow was a Hunchback charging full speed and alpha-striking for enough damage to narrowly pull off a victory against us. Good game, right?

Well, once we sat down and reviewed what we'd done while the next round progressed, we realized that said Hunchback had engine damage and a lost heat sink and had done the exact same thing the turn before...meaning it should have been overheated so badly it wouldn't have been able to move full speed OR fire accurately enough to have hit with the AC/20 (which it managed to just make the to-hit roll exactly, but the heat penalty would have whiffed the shot).

We brought it up to the judge- another member of, you guessed it, the host group. Oops, too late! Too bad, we'll see you next year right?

(And said group's lance indeed won the whole enchilada, though we have no idea whether they did the rest of their rounds the same way. However, the next year did indicate they likely did....)

We indeed did come back the next year. This time, it was tonnage based, with 3050 IS Tech being the limiter (and all designs had to be canon).

I had an Archer-4M, my one friend a Charger-SB, the second the pulse-laser Ostsol of the day, and the last a Whitworth-S.

We blew the first group of opponents apart in a fair, fun fight- the four of us played together at home, and we knew enough to lure out a 'Mech and focus fire it into chutney.

Round 2, we knew the organizers had noticed we were back- we'd ended up with the same group as last year hosting, and sure enough...they had two groups in the tournament again. We politely set up.

In two rounds, we'd lured them into one side of the map and traded our Whitworth going down for denuding their Phoenix Hawk of it's arms and most of one leg and savaging their Awesome with large laser fire from the Charger (the -SB is a lot like an Awesome, only it's 4 LL + 1 ML). We ended up with my Archer in the woods exchanging shots with their Marauder while the Awesome dueled the Charger and the Ostsol chased a Wolverine around them.

The Marauder crumbled under waves of LRM fire as the two assaults traded alpha strikes- and this time, we were ready for the cheat. We called the judge the second the Awesome triple-fired his PPC's in a row- while moving at full speed.

Sure enough, NONE of them was tracking their heat, claiming it was an "optional rule". We already had it bookmarked in a copy of the rulebook and handed it to them. Highlighted. The judge had no option but to agree with us.

The Awesome proceeded to alpha-strike itself into shutdown on it's third try to alpha-kill the Charger (failing horribly with the heat penalties) and getting mangled by us, while the Marauder died from one too many LRM salvos to the torso- I'd manged to hit the head and damage the sensors, chipped the engine and finally cored the thing.

This got us into the championship round- against....of course...the other lance from the host group. We got 300 tons to work with, and were shown the map- a small area that was on top of a 7-level elevation mesa. Infighter's heaven. We liked.

They took three stock Axmen and a King Crab. We took....two Hunchback-P's and two King Crabs. Me and suicide-Whitworth pilot had the two mediums, and the map meant that two Axmen were going to be in on us in a hurry.

We exchanged fire, and the first round tore into my buddy's Hunchback, damaging it badly but not too badly. We tore chunks out of the lead Axman as I came in from one side and both of them focused on getting into reach of tearing up their initial target, but it wasn't anything the heavy's armor wouldn't handle- and my buddy was getting pummeled by good shot grouping.

As the lead one closed, I ended up running up to the second one- and firing my torso lasers at the first, despite the poorer range. They laughed.

During the physical attack phase, I proceeded to show them why.

I pushed the second, perfectly undamaged 'Mech off the map by simply shoving it.. They were outraged by this. Who the heck actually uses push attacks in Battletech, right? They asked the judge to let them come back on the map.

I pointed out that I'd just pushed the Axman off a 7-level fall, and if they wanted to, roll for damage.

The 'Mech pancaked head-first into the ground and crushed the cockpit in the process of ruining the rest of it's upper torso. Moot point.

The next round the second Axman finished off my buddy (our two KC's and their two 'Mechs were engaging in a series of whiffed shots that did virtually no damage to anyone the entire round) and came for me. We didn't mess much with finesse, just a shooting, hacking, kicking brawl that came to a head when I ended up missing a leg, both arms, my right torso, my LEFT torso, and most of what was left- I had a few points of head armor, a few points of CT internals and the same with one leg. He was missing an arm and most of one side torso and I'd torn up much of the rest, but on the ground and with no arms, I wasn't shooting right? He stood over me, planning to kick me dead while he started shooting my buddies.

No. A 'Mech always gets one chance to stand (ie, 1 MP) with one leg, although it's at +5 to the piloting roll. I needed a 10+ to stand.

11. I'm up. He fired on the other 'Mechs anyway, not wanting to waste guns on something that would die from the kick. I fired the one, pathetic small laser I had left in the head mount.

Hit. The side torso. With 2 points of internals left. The side torso was destroyed.

Axmen use XL engines, which meant it proceeded to drop dead on the spot. Kill #2. That REALLY did it. The next turn the third Axman and King Crab charged at me and obliterated what was left of my 'Mech in a hail of guns (finally managing to hit something, though our KC's again didn't do much firing at them even then), apparently afraid that I'd small laser them to death as well, as time concluded- and we won, having blown away two high-tech heavies with our lower-tech mediums- 130 tons vs. 100 destroyed. Game, match, championship, justice.

I never played in a MechForce tournament again. After that, what was gonna top it?

Edited by wanderer, 04 July 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Rush Maguin]

wanderer, on 04 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Heh. I'm another one of those oldtimer MechForce players- and I keep my championship plaque to this day to remind me what it means to be good, vs. simply trying to be the "winner" at any cost.

The Northeastern championships were called "Operation Green Flag", and the local BT game group in PA were the organizers- and entered multiple lances (4 player groups) in to boot.

Me and three of my friends went, too. Road trip for a pack of high schoolers, woo!

They had random packs of four 'Mechs of a given weight that were roughly balanced for each round- first lights, then mediums, etc etc up to the championship. Your group lost, you were eliminated.

Well, we got ourselves in our lights- I had a Panther and went at it. We had one of the host group's lances for a first opponent.

Round 1, my first shot, long range was my PPC blowing the head off their Valkyrie. Oh, did THAT tick them off! So I led them in a merry chase across the map, where they obsessively went after my 'Mech in spite of the other three on my team tearing them new holes doing so.

By the end, I'd taken no crits, lost most of my armor and a few dots of internals- but the Valkyrie was still dead and a Javelin was faceplanted with a gyro and an engine hit, where the next round would have been a sure kill. We advanced, they were STILL ticked.

Mediums. Against the OTHER host team. It was more even, but the final blow was a Hunchback charging full speed and alpha-striking for enough damage to narrowly pull off a victory against us. Good game, right?

Well, once we sat down and reviewed what we'd done while the next round progressed, we realized that said Hunchback had engine damage and a lost heat sink and had done the exact same thing the turn before...meaning it should have been overheated so badly it wouldn't have been able to move full speed OR fire accurately enough to have hit with the AC/20 (which it managed to just make the to-hit roll exactly, but the heat penalty would have whiffed the shot).

We brought it up to the judge- another member of, you guessed it, the host group. Oops, too late! Too bad, we'll see you next year right?

(And said group's lance indeed won the whole enchilada, though we have no idea whether they did the rest of their rounds the same way. However, the next year did indicate they likely did....)

We indeed did come back the next year. This time, it was tonnage based, with 3050 IS Tech being the limiter (and all designs had to be canon).

I had an Archer-4M, my one friend a Charger-SB, the second the pulse-laser Ostsol of the day, and the last a Whitworth-S.

We blew the first group of opponents apart in a fair, fun fight- the four of us played together at home, and we knew enough to lure out a 'Mech and focus fire it into chutney.

Round 2, we knew the organizers had noticed we were back- we'd ended up with the same group as last year hosting, and sure enough...they had two groups in the tournament again. We politely set up.

In two rounds, we'd lured them into one side of the map and traded our Whitworth going down for denuding their Phoenix Hawk of it's arms and most of one leg and savaging their Awesome with large laser fire from the Charger (the -SB is a lot like an Awesome, only it's 4 LL + 1 ML). We ended up with my Archer in the woods exchanging shots with their Marauder while the Awesome dueled the Charger and the Ostsol chased a Wolverine around them.

The Marauder crumbled under waves of LRM fire as the two assaults traded alpha strikes- and this time, we were ready for the cheat. We called the judge the second the Awesome triple-fired his PPC's in a row- while moving at full speed.

Sure enough, NONE of them was tracking their heat, claiming it was an "optional rule". We already had it bookmarked in a copy of the rulebook and handed it to them. Highlighted. The judge had no option but to agree with us.

The Awesome proceeded to alpha-strike itself into shutdown on it's third try to alpha-kill the Charger (failing horribly with the heat penalties) and getting mangled by us, while the Marauder died from one too many LRM salvos to the torso- I'd manged to hit the head and damage the sensors, chipped the engine and finally cored the thing.

This got us into the championship round- against....of course...the other lance from the host group. We got 300 tons to work with, and were shown the map- a small area that was on top of a 7-level elevation mesa. Infighter's heaven. We liked.

They took three stock Axmen and a King Crab. We took....two Hunchback-P's and two King Crabs. Me and suicide-Whitworth pilot had the two mediums, and the map meant that two Axmen were going to be in on us in a hurry.

We exchanged fire, and the first round tore into my buddy's Hunchback, damaging it badly but not too badly. We tore chunks out of the lead Axman as I came in from one side and both of them focused on getting into reach of tearing up their initial target, but it wasn't anything the heavy's armor wouldn't handle- and my buddy was getting pummeled by good shot grouping.

As the lead one closed, I ended up running up to the second one- and firing my torso lasers at the first, despite the poorer range. They laughed.

During the physical attack phase, I proceeded to show them why.

I pushed the second, perfectly undamaged 'Mech off the map by simply shoving it.. They were outraged by this. Who the heck actually uses push attacks in Battletech, right? They asked the judge to let them come back on the map.

I pointed out that I'd just pushed the Axman off a 7-level fall, and if they wanted to, roll for damage.

The 'Mech pancaked head-first into the ground and crushed the cockpit in the process of ruining the rest of it's upper torso. Moot point.

The next round the second Axman finished off my buddy (our two KC's and their two 'Mechs were engaging in a series of whiffed shots that did virtually no damage to anyone the entire round) and came for me. We didn't mess much with finesse, just a shooting, hacking, kicking brawl that came to a head when I ended up missing a leg, both arms, my right torso, my LEFT torso, and most of what was left- I had a few points of head armor, a few points of CT internals and the same with one leg. He was missing an arm and most of one side torso and I'd torn up much of the rest, but on the ground and with no arms, I wasn't shooting right? He stood over me, planning to kick me dead while he started shooting my buddies.

No. A 'Mech always gets one chance to stand (ie, 1 MP) with one leg, although it's at +5 to the piloting roll. I needed a 10+ to stand.

11. I'm up. He fired on the other 'Mechs anyway, not wanting to waste guns on something that would die from the kick. I fired the one, pathetic small laser I had left in the head mount.

Hit. The side torso. With 2 points of internals left. The side torso was destroyed.

Axmen use XL engines, which meant it proceeded to drop dead on the spot. Kill #2. That REALLY did it. The next turn the third Axman and King Crab charged at me and obliterated what was left of my 'Mech in a hail of guns (finally managing to hit something, though our KC's again didn't do much firing at them even then), apparently afraid that I'd small laser them to death as well, as time concluded- and we won, having blown away two high-tech heavies with our lower-tech mediums- 130 tons vs. 100 destroyed. Game, match, championship, justice.

I never played in a MechForce tournament again. After that, what was gonna top it?

*Applause* Very well done. I can't help being deeply pleased when cheaters and bullies get their due. It's more proof of how unpredictable and edge of your seat Battletech can be. 40K is all about who has the first turn with what list they play; Battletech - ANYTHING is possible, ANYTHING can happen, and the dice that love you in turn 1 could bitterly betray you in turn 3. Every game is an experience of delicious suspense - when played with the right people, of course.

I'd love to hear more tales like that. Triumphs against overwhelming odds or just overwhelming egos. Well done again, Wanderer. I look forward to seeing you on the field in MWO.

[ice trey]

Rush Maguin, on 04 July 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Thanks, Ice. I made a point to keep it a little un-crunchy so as not to be buried in technicalities. The tabletop vets might understand it but we've had people come through this thread who haven't played yet, so making the story accessible took a front seat over rule details. I agree with the bad sportsmanship vibe, there - it's in every game, but some places it's worse than others. Miniatures wargaming very definitely has a lion's share. Mechforce really was a bad idea. I liked the idea of Battletech having its own bona fide community, but some jerks can't separate the game from some placebo accomplishment that makes them feel better about life. If winning a game of Battletech can pay my rent or a medical bill or car insurance, I might take it that seriously too (to my ultimate detriment, of course; when the game becomes more rage fest than good fun, everyone loses). Being that's still just a fun afternoon, it's incomprehensible how anyone can get worked up about it that far. I used to tell rage trolls (for whatever good it did) on any given MMO, "You win, great. Boot up the next battle. Nothing's changed. You lose, great. Boot up the next battle. Nothing's changed."

Well, While tabletop wargaming/boardgaming does attract the munchkins, we at least get one advantage over the roleplayers out there...

...It's far less common to run into some guy that tries to bring his sexual fetishes into a miniatures wargame. Ponies, however, seem to be a different story, but fetishes, at the very least, seem to be far less common.

[Rush Maguin]

....


The horror. The horror....

[JackCrow]

This is a great thread. What do you guys mean when you say munchkins? Are these the fat, hairy dudes with Aspergers and the Ghost Bear tats that people keeping referring to?

[Rush Maguin]

Munchking is a general purpose slang word about players who are rules lawyers and win at all costs types. Rather than make an actual character, they try to min-max an optimal numbers based build (usually exploiting any rules loophole they can find) to do so, usually in the attempt to gain the greatest advantage possible over the game itself. "Munchkin" came from the idea of the number crunching they like to do; that became "Munchkin" over time and it's stuck for a long, long time now. They are also known as Rules Lawyers, Loophole Fairies, WAAC, Beardy players and more.

They are usually very poor sports when they don't get their own way and could usually care less about the enjoyment of anyone in the game except themselves. To be avoided at all costs.

[wanderer]

Rush Maguin, on 04 July 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

*Applause* Very well done. I can't help being deeply pleased when cheaters and bullies get their due. It's more proof of how unpredictable and edge of your seat Battletech can be. 40K is all about who has the first turn with what list they play; Battletech - ANYTHING is possible, ANYTHING can happen, and the dice that love you in turn 1 could bitterly betray you in turn 3. Every game is an experience of delicious suspense - when played with the right people, of course.

I'd love to hear more tales like that. Triumphs against overwhelming odds or just overwhelming egos. Well done again, Wanderer. I look forward to seeing you on the field in MWO.

I shall give you one that I know from the annals of /tg/, with delicious copypasta then.

Case in point, the local BT group set up a "Clan vs IS" fight, and proceeded to spend huge amounts of resources setting up a killing ground-mines, artillery, you name it. They then challenged the Clan players. They showed up on the edge of the map, took one look at the place, and left three turns later without firing or moving much more than to the top of a hill and back. The IS forces declined to pursue from their "Clan-killer" defenses. The IS players started to pack up after "winning". The Clan players handed a note to the judge.

The judge told the IS players to leave their units in place and resolve the next 15 turns..

15 turns of fire from five Nagas, firing 2 Arrow IV's each per turn is a surprisingly large amount of damage on a static defensive force, even when it starts to move after the first few rounds landed. A good number of vehicles suffered motive hits and were immobilized or outright destroyed, 'Mechs were dinged up somewhat. The Clan players then informed them that they'd be back for the next round, same map location in about 30 minutes once the Nagas got reloaded. This time, they just put a single Star of light jump-capable Omnis on the field and checked to make sure the minefields covered the entire field, end-to-end, further than the Omnis could jump. This cost them one Omni leg. The remainder remained. Cue another 15 rounds of Arrow IV. The IS force left the map to avoid being hit. The Clan player bombarded the fortifications and static defenses to junk.

The IS players accused the Clan players of stalling.

The judge noted that the IS players had set themselves up behind so many mines that the Clan forces could not reach them with weapons fire other than artillery, and were legitimately engaging the IS forces every round with every weapon they could hit them with.

The rest of the day was essentially spent seeing how many hexes of terrain were reduced to rough terrain by being hit by multiple 20-point AIV rounds. The Clan players won by tonnage damaged/destroyed, having wrecked a half-dozen LRM carriers and headshotting a medium 'Mech with the artillery (plus dinging up a bunch on the first few rounds of artillery fire), vs. taking a whopping 34 damage to one Clan light who landed on a mine.

Week 2: The next wonderstrategy- vehicle cheese!

The IS forces set up with a nice array of what is easily the most annoyingly effective force vs. Battlemechs- a horde of Savannah Masters.

SM's (an appropriate acronym, as enough of them feels like an S&M session with you as the bottom) are light, fast, and incredibly cheap by tonnage laser guns on a cushion of air. You can field four for the tonnage of the lightest Battlemech. They put 40 out there, plus what was left of the LRM carriers and a lance of light 'Mechs.

The five light Omnis showed up on the map for the Clans. Expecting a repeat of the last time, the IS player zoomed the hoverhorde forwards, with the Clan lights moving up at full speed at the same time.

Did you know that even a Dasher can mount seven SRM-2's with 3 tons of ammo, and that the ground is incredibly easy to hit with weapons in Battletech?

Hovertanks do not work very well when the ground around them is on fire. The light Star proceeded to leave the resulting infernofest burning, boxing most of the SM's on the same part of the map as the Omnis, and then literally lit the entire area up.

A dozen or so SM's went up in smoke, unable to move clear of the firestorm because their fellow tanks were in the way. The Clan Star once again left the board.

Cue another 15 turns of you-know what. The LRM carriers took the first turn of fire and lost another three vehicles due to crappy scatter but got off the map before #2, with one more SM hit by a freak accident and scrapped. The remaining 13 turns of Arrow IV'* *** nothing but dirt, as both sides had left.

Victory: Clan.

Week 3: IS and Clan players get together and decided that since the last two weeks were incredibly UNFUN for the IS forces, this time they'd actually fight with everything on the map that was left, random terrain by the judge.

It's actually pretty nice. Some hills, a few small bits of forest but most of a 12x12 foot table covered in clear and patches of rough terrain and a few patches of water. The Clan player brings on their 20 'Mechs (a light Omni star, the two heavy stars, and the star of Nagas that had been offboard prior), the IS force has about two companies of SM's left, five LRM carriers, and just under a battalion of 'Mechs- so many units they barely could fit the minis on their side of the board.

The IS 'Mechs mostly clumped forward in a mass, spreading out slightly with the differences in speed and terrain. The SM squadron zipped straight at the Nagas before they could start unloading more than a few Arrow rounds into the crowd. The LRM carriers chugged along at turtle speed, hiding behind the mass of 'Mechs to await targets.

The Clan force arranged itself in a thin line, at extreme range to the IS except for the Savanna Masters, who had closed at near-impossible-to-hit speeds to the Nagas- they were in range to fire this turn, and would swarm the five Naga's the next.

At this point, the remaining Clan forces make themselves known.

Six Sabutai C's proceed to strafe the mass of Inner Sphere in a neat line, giving them something to shoot at on the first turn.

It isn't pretty on either side. The six aerospace fighters alpha strike on the strafing run, nailing multiple units at once with a dozen lasers of varying sizes each. All of the LRM carriers get caught in the line of fire and go up in varying kinds of fireworks, and two 'Mechs are out-and-out killed by the firepower. Another thirteen are in the line of fire- eight of them are maimed by the barrage to varying degrees, but then the entire horde returns fire.

None of the six survive the combination of either being shot to pieces or fail one of a dozen piloting rolls+ from the heat load and hits and become slag and scrap. Meanwhile, the hovertanks spew a hail of lasers at the Nagas. One is hit repeatedly and loses most of it's armor and part of a leg from the long-range (by medium laser standards) barrage.

As for the return fire:

Did you know a Naga can easily carry over a dozen SRM-2 racks? Three of the Nagas coated the terrain in flaming goop, to which the other two Naga's added directly-fired artillery rounds into the mess. The scatter was with the Clan forces, and the four Arrow rounds each flattened a hovertank outright, and the spreading explosions hobbled and hammered another four. The remainder found themselves with five Battlemechs and a strangely familiar sea of flames to get out of... This did not amuse the IS side in any way whatsoever.

The mass of 3050-era machines, now down to about 30 effectives (and twenty undamaged) and one Savannah Master that managed to somehow avoid the firestorm (plus four others damaged by the artillery) push into range after winning initative. The five SM's decide that full-speed ramming is the answer, and each one picks a Naga to go at after they begin to back up, intent on at least doing damage before being caught in a napalm net. The backing up means the SM's get plenty of room to build up speed- it ain't gonna be pretty.

The light Omnis run into the IS lines to draw fire, now equipped with PPC's and large lasers and focusing on the heavier elements. A Warhammer loses an arm from a double-tap from a Cougar's PPC's, and the Dasher daringly closes to point-blank range with a Victor and scatters laser fire over the armor, but it holds up. The other ten Clanners pick targets and keep Zell- a Rifleman IIC turns a Kintaro into a donut with it's large pulse lasers, and a Vulture stuns a Marauder pilot with a few missiles into the head armor, knocking it over but not seriously damaging it otherwise.

The entire two companies or so of IS 'Mechs repeat the massed fire of the first turn, this time on the light Star. Again, nothing gets clear.

The five SM's each manage to charge and hit their targets through a pile of SRM and laser fire from the Nagas. The damaged Naga loses the leg entirely and falls down, critting it's own ammo bins and the chain-gang turns the pilot into jello, though CASE saves the now burning 'Mech. The other Nagas survive the experience and the remaining SM's are now in the middle of another sea of fire, where they will burn the next turn or be forced off the board in the only direction possible.

The IS forces roll straight at the corner in which the 10 remaining heavy and medium Clan machines are located, but the Clan machines turn and run towards the opposite corner where the four remaining Nagas still stand, surrounded by flames. One IS Marauder pilot is out cold but otherwise not badly hurt (he took the tag end of two LRM 20's for 2 pilot hits and 4 head armor damage and failed to stay awake) and remains behind, along with a damaged heavy that cut loose and forgot it had engine damage- and shut down.

The Clan forces manage to break line of sight with a hill to the nearest IS forces, but the Clanners lob a few LRM's as they go with indirect fire (the Nagas spotting). Nothing major, but the Victor is gimped and has it's left arm frozen at the shoulder from the salvo (since the IS broke Zell last turn). A few Gauss rounds at extreme range get fired at the Nagas, but nothing hits. The Nagas fire back....at the ground.

A dozen LRM 15's from the SRM-packing Nagas impact on the hill and the open terrain to it's side, leaving a coating of mines. The Arrow-IV Naga bides it's time. The SM's wisely leave the board rather than remain in the corner to be cooked.

[wanderer]

The next turn, the slower second-line Clan machines turn to face the hill, leaving the six medium and heavy Omnis to continue towards the 4 Nagas standing.

Five of the IS mediums are jump capable (and a heavy) and the six just jump over the hill and engage the IIC's (A trio of Rifleman IIC's who'd been on the far side of the line, now the near) and the dozen or so left over continue to charge after the Omnis. Two take mine hits running through the hexes, but the Nagas didn't get any time to set up a thicker field- and the leg armor holds up anyway. The Marauder wakes up and gets back up slowly.

There is now a mass of IS 'Mechs packed together going through the hole in the minefield towards the Omnis, and six IS 'Mechs ganging up on three Riflemen IIC's. Another wave of running fire. The bigger bunch catch a Hellbringer in another wave attack and headcap it while breaching it's armor in five places- it goes down dead. The Vulture loses most of the armor on both arms from ER PPC fire but remains healthy.

The three Rifleman IIC's ignore the six around them and earn their keep- the Warhammer dies from three pulse laser hits that eat through the arm hole and hit SRM ammo, a Griffin gets it's ammo bin shot out by another triple-tap and blows to bits as well, and the third one slags the engine shielding off on Ostsol's side torso and knocks it down, where the impact finishes the job.

The IS 'Mechs boil armor off them back- two Phoenix Hawks with lasers, a pair of Dervishes adding in SRM fire, a Vindicator mostly whiffing but for it's laser, and the one heavy (a Grasshopper) getting lucky and making up for the Vindy by hitting with everything it had.

Surprisingly, the three Clanners live through it all, though with armor breaches on two.

The return Clan fire isn't pretty from the Omni's- a mixed bag of ER laser, PPC, and LRM fire gets in and sticks. Two Archers get their torso armor hosed off, and the Vulture ***** a Centurion with an ER large laser and some LRM's.

The Nagas fire again, with the Arrow IV's joining in on direct-fire mode. One scatters badly and hits nothing, the other one almost as badly and only scratches the mass in the back. The LRMs open up again- and it's ugly. They use Swarm ammo. Swarm missiles that hit, hit. The ones that miss will seek out something next to the target and attack THEM, and if something's next to that and them miss, the next, and the next...till they run out of targets clumped together.

None of the LRM's had missed after four tries. 180 LRM's did a number on the already damaged targets- both Archers lost an LRM rack each, and one lost a side torso to ammo exploding (CASE kept it up). The Centurion got the benefit of most of the LRM's that missed the Archers and went down from gyro damage. A few LRM's piddled through and bounced off random 'Mechs.

The judge calls the next round as "time over", though we were allowed to take our time making moves. (Try moving this many units in Battletech, even with over a dozen people playing on IS and four on the Clan side. It's not easy.). The Clanners win initiative.

The remaining Omnis (now nine) backwalk towards the Nagas again, and this time the IS forces get a clue and spread out a bit now that they're past the hill and mines- the two Archers turn to attack the Riflemen, and the gyro-shot Centurion can't hit anything else- bringing about two lances of fire aimed their way.

The Nagas stay in place. The Marauder remains out of range as it moves to catch up, but is too far behind to do anything except look cool (it's an Unseen mini, after all.). The Riflemen move last, as the six 'Mechs that engaged them last turn form a ring around the now really-in-trouble-trio.

Firing begins. The IS players talk amidst themselves for a moment, and the back of the main group turns to fire at the standing-in-place Riflemen, while the remaining four fire at the Vulture.

Nobody's leaving a trigger unpressed in their direction. One Rifleman gets both side torsos shot away, then loses a leg. The second one loses it's arm on one side, and the leg on another. The third takes so much damage the entire upper part of the record sheet is X'd off,leaving it a head and two (scarred) legs. All three are effectively dead.

The remaning IS forces get their pounds of flesh off the Vulture- a PPC bolt gets through to an LRM magazine and blows the right arm off the Omni, and the head and left arm are spattered by LRM's, ruining the lasers in the other side and leaving it looking worse than the Archers. It's still standing afterwards, though.

The Clan forces go off.

The Riflemen had declared alpha strikes as well- four large pulse lasers each. Both Archers got the matching rapefest from a quad laser hosing- one lost an engine, the other one was blinded from a laser shot to the head sensors and lost the other LRM rack to a crit. The pilot stayed awake but the 'Mech fell over and dinged the gyro, leaving it barely functional and unable to fire further. The third one put all four lasers into the legs of the Vindicator, scratching one leg but melting the other one to a useless stub. It dropped but was still able to fight. For now.

The remaining Omnis fired. The Vulture saws the Victor's left arm off and cracks the right arm armor. One crit. Gauss Rifle. The explosion leaves the Victor an 80-ton SRM launcher on legs and the pilot out cold in the faceplanting (but again, technically alive) assault 'Mech. The Mad Cat (we nicknamed Mr Whiff for hitting with all of one ERLL till now) turned it's guns on the Grasshopper- and for once, everything DID hit. Both ER LL's and both LRM's chewed up armor, but the Grasshopper's armor easily took the abuse.

Finally, the Naga's get their attacks in.

The artillery Naga sends two more rounds at the big group- and scatters, again. Unfortunately for the IS, they scatter big- right into the jumpers that were surrounding the Riflemen. The Vindicator takes a direct hit, amputating the other leg but doing no lethal harm. The Grasshopper is caught in the secondary radius but only loses the remaining armor over it's right torso. The second Arrow IV round hits it dead on, and part of the damage finds the LRM bin. Lacking CASE, the remains of the Grasshopper scatter over the hex as tinfoil.

The LRM Nagas fire again, but have to settle for individual targets. A fresher Warhammer gets four out of eight LRM 15's to hit it, but only loses armor and a single heat sink to the one crit that got through. And with that, the game ends. Decision: draw- the Clan lost ten 'Mechs, six fighters and the IS all of their vehicles and most of a company-and at the end the Clan had eight heavies and assaults. Pyhrric victory to the IS, mostly from being smart enough at the end to kill the three heavies they could.

[Rush Maguin]

Just out of curiosity, what Clan were they? They sound to me like they played the Clans appropriately. I dig their approach.