72 replies to this topic

[Vidarok]

Maybe this is a bad idea, but what if there were rewards for playing a class that is currently uncommonly used? Say, lights are at 7% for example, and you get a big bonus to C-bills or XP for fielding one. The lower the %, the bigger the reward. As it gets higher, rewards will wane and eventually disappear at 25%.

Edited by Vidarok, 09 October 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Pendraco]

Vidarok, on 09 October 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

Maybe this is a bad idea, but what if there were rewards for playing a class that is currently uncommonly used? Say, lights are at 7% for example, and you get a big bonus to C-bills or XP for fielding one. The lower the %, the bigger the reward. As it gets higher, rewards will wane and eventually disappear at 25%.

I love this idea, For every % point under 25% you would get that %boost to C-Bills earnings. So if you launch in a light at 7% you would get an 18% C-Bills boost for that match!

[Kjudoon]

Zolaz, on 07 October 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

According to Lore Mediums are suppose to be the workhorse mech. However, in MWO it appears that Assaults and Heavies are used way more often. Right now the PUG queue looks like 40% Assault, 38% Heavies, 13% Mediums and the rest in Lights.

It looks like the player base has voted to play in larger and slower mechs. When you try and drop in a queue with a larger population you dont get the mode you want and you get worse players as MM tries to make the game. Are other people not seeing this or do people just want to pilot their Assaults and Heavies that bad?

If R&R was in the game, and prices were designed to give the reflection of what lore is, we'd have an almost geometric spike in prices for heavies and assaults in keeping them in game. we also wouldn't see them in every match, leaving us with a composition of 3/6/2/1.

Maybe with the idea of tonnage limits coming instead of weight class limits in CW (yes that's looking to be the official announcement) this will dramatically change as 2-3 assaults consume most of the weight and everyone else is stuck playing lights and mediums.

[UrsusMorologus]

Online games are all about damage output vs input balance curves. In all of the MW games, the heavier mechs are always the most forgiving, can deal more damage and can tank more damage too. They make bad players good and good players better. The theoretical downside is that they are too slow to move around, but map sizes here are mostly too small for that to matter any, since once you are in range of the DW clan LRM cabin-rattle spam you are as good as dead anyway (it didnt matter in single-player MW either because time spent walking didnt really affect anything). Large maps with limited engagment also make for boring gamplay. Probably the best map in the game for lights and mediums is Tourmaline, good combination of openness with a lot of cover--faster movment speed of lighter mechs mean you can hit a Dire Wolf and duck away without taking the massive return fire.

What it comes down to is that the heavier mechs need some kind of weakness in combat, something like an artificially limited turn-rate that allows them to be flanked easier, or something like that. That is the only way you are going to get more people wanting to use lighter mechs more often. Or make all the maps like Tourmaline.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 09 October 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

UrsusMorologus, on 09 October 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Online games are all about damage output vs input balance curves. In all of the MW games, the heavier mechs are always the most forgiving, can deal more damage and can tank more damage too. They make bad players good and good players better. The theoretical downside is that they are too slow to move around, but map sizes here are too small to make that matter (it didnt matter in single-player MW either because time spent walking didnt really affect anything). Large maps with limited engagment also make for boring gamplay.

What it comes down to is that the heavier mechs need some kind of weakness in combat, something like an artificially limited turn-rate that allows them to be flanked easier, or something like that. That is the only way you are going to get more people wanting to use lighter mechs more often.

Meh, I find it boring to have 24 mechs cramed into a 9x9 square where no matter where you move there is 30 guns firing at you.....its like I dont dare move.....

Atleast on big maps there is breathing room to move around, explore, and escape if your losing the engagement. MWO current maps are like encounter lock in EQ2, once your engaged,you cant break away...

[Livewyr]

If we actually had a Repair/Re-arm system, mediums would be more economical.

But we do not.

[Zolaz]

HammerMaster, on 09 October 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Lights are too small.
Mediums are WAY TOO BIG.
Some Medium/Light Engine Cap could be slightly higher
Repair and Rearm not being implemented gives no incentive to economy builds like Lights/Mediums and Beam Boats.

Heat should make ammo explode.

[Kjudoon]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 October 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Meh, I find it boring to have 24 mechs cramed into a 9x9 square where no matter where you move there is 30 guns firing at you.....its like I dont dare move.....

Atleast on big maps there is breathing room to move around, explore, and escape if your losing the engagement. MWO current maps are like encounter lock in EQ2, once your engaged,you cant break away...

And multiple terrain features that can be central to a fight instead of one big glaring 'king of the hill' feature that forces everyone there. IMNSHO, the longest range weapon should not be able to cover a tenth of the map and there should be at least three prominent strategic features to fight over or around, forcing a mobile battle, usually outside of them. Of course this would require the smallest map to be 3 times the size of Alpine Peaks and matches to be 30 minutes requiring deathballs to split up to find them creating more lance combat.

[TexAce]

Zolaz, on 07 October 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

According to Lore Mediums are suppose to be the workhorse mech. However, in MWO it appears that Assaults and Heavies are used way more often. Right now the PUG queue looks like 40% Assault, 38% Heavies, 13% Mediums and the rest in Lights.

It looks like the player base has voted to play in larger and slower mechs. When you try and drop in a queue with a larger population you dont get the mode you want and you get worse players as MM tries to make the game. Are other people not seeing this or do people just want to pilot their Assaults and Heavies that bad?

ergo: slow down assaults and heavies even more, like barebly slow, so meds get more attractive.
Mastered Assaults are far too agile for their mass.

Edited by TexAss, 09 October 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[UrsusMorologus]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 October 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Meh, I find it boring to have 24 mechs cramed into a 9x9 square where no matter where you move there is 30 guns firing at you.....its like I dont dare move.....

Atleast on big maps there is breathing room to move around, explore, and escape if your losing the engagement. MWO current maps are like encounter lock in EQ2, once your engaged,you cant break away...

I guess I was still editing my post when you replied, but as I said the best map for lights and mediums is Tourmaline because of the size and amount of cover, which lets the smaller mechs exploit their superior agility against the larger and slower mechs. More maps like that would make lighter mechs more generally useful, without having to make substantial changes to the heavier mechs. Also, as has been said by myself and others, getting rid of focal areas like volcano caldera and alpine mountain would help quite a bit, since those tend to require everyone fight in the same small area which give the heavies and assaults their big advantage. Unfortunately, mapmaking is extremely expensive in terms of man-hours (a lot of expensive men multiplied by a lot of hours) so changing the maps is probably the least-desirable fix from PGI's perspective.

At which point we are back to nerfing the heavy mech combat capabilities relative to the lighter mechs, so that the damage input and output curves are more consistent.

[Abisha]

Light mechs sudden never must have existed in MWO.
even Medium mechs are kind of stupid to take over a heavy mech.

[BumbleBee]

Remove speed tweak and double agility efficiencies for Heavy and Assault Mechs. Let them keep double firepower and cooling efficiencies and tier 1 agility efficiencies.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Zolaz, on 07 October 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

According to Lore Mediums are suppose to be the workhorse mech. However, in MWO it appears that Assaults and Heavies are used way more often. Right now the PUG queue looks like 40% Assault, 38% Heavies, 13% Mediums and the rest in Lights.

It looks like the player base has voted to play in larger and slower mechs. When you try and drop in a queue with a larger population you dont get the mode you want and you get worse players as MM tries to make the game. Are other people not seeing this or do people just want to pilot their Assaults and Heavies that bad?

In Lore it was due to the costs of fielding battlemechs not because they were the best mechs.

It is just like a modern army. While fielding a regiment of 108 Abrams tanks is a good thing, you could instead probably field 2 mixed regiments of 36 Abrams, 60 Bradleys and a battery or two of self-propelled arty and air defense. Same goes for Battletech Lore. Heavy and Assault mechs were very expensive while lights where generally not powerful enough to stand up against heavy and assault mechs. However you could produce and outfit 2-3 medium mechs for the same cost as a single heavy or assault mech and while mediums might not have the armor or firepower of a heavy or assault, they were heavy enough to mount enough weaponry to be threats to those heavy or assault mechs especially if they had numbers on their side.

So in conclusion, it is very hard to balance a mech when they were designed in a manner that it would take roughly 2-3 of them to equal 1 heavy mech.