31 replies to this topic

[SpiralFace]

Hey everyone.

So yeah, there is a ton of vile being spilled about the entire voting system and how it doesn't prevent "rolls" like many people wanted it to. (Lets all be honest and just admit that the game is not currently set up in that way.)

But lets leave that discussion for the many threads already covering that.

There is one aspect of this that I HAVEN'T heard about in all the talks about why this system is terrible, and that is that I have seen a SIGNIFICANT reduction in the amount of complaining about dropping against comp 12 mans in the group Que. Specifically when they are dropping in smaller 2-4 man teams.

Now I'm not talking about never seeing them so much as their frequency against players that are not at a level that they should be playing them.

I get that all the rage is currently squarely focused against the voting system, but I'm curious as to those that do play in group ques how many times they ran into 8-12 man Lords, SJR, SoK, 228 groups last night?

Hard to tell with only a nights worth of data if THAT aspect was improved, but I feel like this is a MAJOR factor as to why there was pressure for PGI to go down the voting path to begin with. And if there is a noticeable drop in the amount of 8-10 man comp teams going up against small 2-4 man groups, It should be noted with the rest of the greater voting discussion.

(Didn't play enough last night to see too much myself, but am very curious about this point.)

Edited by SpiralFace, 08 October 2014 - 06:20 AM.

[Zeece]

I played with and against them numerous times last night... Did seem like a higher than my normal rate... but only dropped for a couple hours last night... would like to see how it plays out over time.

Most of them were dropping heavy Clan... so they might have been out in force to gather data on the Side Torso Changes.

Edited by Zeece, 08 October 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[Sirius Drake]

Yeah to me it seemed higher as well.
We were a 4 man and it seemed we were constantly filling up 8 mens to roll vs some 12 men (not all of them pro but roughly 75%).

[SpiralFace]

Zeece, on 08 October 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

I played with and against them numerous times last night... Did seem like a higher than my normal rate... but only dropped for a couple hours last night... would like to see how it plays out over time.

Most of them were dropping heavy Clan... so they might have been out in force to gather data on the Side Torso Changes.

Where you dropping in a small group and encountered a large group of them? Or was everyone dropping in small groups?

Lets all not forget that one of the MAJOR complaints of the previous match maker system was the frequency of smaller teamed casual players (Groups of 2-5 people) being grouped against much larger competitive people. ( 6-12 man groups.)

This is a major aspect of these latest matchmaker changes that I'm curious to see what people's experiences are. As it might play a huge factor into either giving players a choice of game mode at the cost of higher chances to drop against 6-12 man comp players, or reducing that frustration, but at the expense of dropping in a game mode you might not want. Or it could be a justification that the change is not fixing the main thing people where complaining about before which spurred on this change in the first place.

Edited by SpiralFace, 08 October 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[Belorion]

Even with = elo you are going to get rolls. You could take two teams of comparable skill, drop them against each other 100 times, and get rolls both directions, and a lot everywhere in between.

[SpiralFace]

Belorion, on 08 October 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

Even with = elo you are going to get rolls. You could take two teams of comparable skill, drop them against each other 100 times, and get rolls both directions, and a lot everywhere in between.

I agree, which is why I don't think this should be something that gets brought up in the discussion. Its just part of the game.

But that's not to say that the playing field can be a bit more level. Having large groups of comp players go up against many "smaller" groups of more casual players and rolling them nearly 100% of the time was not good for both parties involved. I'm curious if that aspect of the matchmaker has improved at all.

[Triordinant]

Sadly, it looks like group queue players will have to choose what they believe is the lesser of two evils.

[SpiralFace]

Triordinant, on 08 October 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Sadly, it looks like group queue players will have to choose what they believe is the lesser of two evils.

That might be the case, but I'm curious to see if the changes did in fact address the "major evil" that people complained about in the first place for Russ to even put it out there that they wanted to do this to address that aspect.

If it truely doesn't address the major concern people had in the first place, then it weighs the discussion a bit more heavily.

But if it does in fact address that which many where complaining about, then yes, people are going to have to choose what they feel is the "lesser" of two evils.

[Agelmar]

We ran groups from 6-12 for a few hours last night. We almost always dropped against a 12 man and if we didn't it was against a 10+2.

I'd say from our perspective the drops got better. We didn't see many teams of small mixed groups.

[DEMAX51]

We had 12-man practice for our NA comp team last night, and the matches seemed much more even overall. We got matched up very few times against a team comprised of smaller groups, and went up against mostly good players in largish groups all night.

[Revis Volek]

We managed to drop against our own group about 3 times last night (had two 10 or smaller running)....so im assuming there just was not that many people on last night to begin with.

Edited by DarthRevis, 08 October 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[Ghogiel]

With the exception of LORDs, it was like beating up cripples as usual.

[Deathlike]

Ghogiel, on 08 October 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

With the exception of LORDs, it was like beating up cripples as usual.

Well... there's not enough competitive players to have their own queue. That's a sad reality.

[Keith66AH]

On the occasions my group gets together we usually drop 4 to 8 man groups. We faced 12 man groups every once in awhile. Some we lost others we won, seemed fairly even to me as far as that despite being against 12 man teams.

Of note and I forget the teams but one 12 we slaughtered when it was our 4 man, another 4, and what seemed like pugs. and another we lost badly.

Honestly I believe I had more to do with actual communication then ELOs. TeamSpeak or C3 or other live communications within the whole team makes a huge difference. Also that ever so OP idea of teamwork.

Seriously if everything else is equal, ELOS, mechs, etc the team that wins is the one that coordinates and works together. Seems like if youre going against a team that outweighs your 12 man then you just brought the wrong mechs giving favor to your enemy. And yes I have seen a lot of light mechs slaughter a much heavier group so its not always about weight. Tactics and communication with your team man....

[Mawai]

Russ did make the statement that the change was helping the Elo match balance in the group queue.

I would also expect that the change has probably made it a bit easier to match large groups against each other since the matchmaker can combine any large groups in the group queue that may be available and work out mode preferences after.

[Gyrok]

SpiralFace, on 08 October 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

Where you dropping in a small group and encountered a large group of them? Or was everyone dropping in small groups?

Lets all not forget that one of the MAJOR complaints of the previous match maker system was the frequency of smaller teamed casual players (Groups of 2-5 people) being grouped against much larger competitive people. ( 6-12 man groups.)

This is a major aspect of these latest matchmaker changes that I'm curious to see what people's experiences are. As it might play a huge factor into either giving players a choice of game mode at the cost of higher chances to drop against 6-12 man comp players, or reducing that frustration, but at the expense of dropping in a game mode you might not want. Or it could be a justification that the change is not fixing the main thing people where complaining about before which spurred on this change in the first place.

Groups of 4-10 last night for about 3 hours, usually around 5-8 players.

Got paired with Skye Rangers a few times, but mostly dropped against Lords/SJR/228th/CSJx.

Additionally, half or more of the players in the group were rookies...talking under 200 matches played total.

Was completely abysmal the entire night

[Rebas Kradd]

SpiralFace, on 08 October 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

That might be the case, but I'm curious to see if the changes did in fact address the "major evil" that people complained about in the first place for Russ to even put it out there that they wanted to do this to address that aspect.

The group queue was the problem in the first place. I still have no earthly idea why they put it in the solo queue.

[SpiralFace]

I would imagine for consistancy's sake.

Thanks for the info everyone.

It would be good to see the "ongoing" experiences as we've only honestly have had a single night so far to judge it.

And I think we should all be aware that stops WILL still happen, the question is really are the matches "better" in that you are getting more challenging matches more often if you are on the high side of the fence, and if matches seem a bit more "even" if you are on the non-comp side of things.

[Haji1096]

I was in three group queue drops last night.

1. BTD 12 man vs. BSA 12 man
2. BTD 12 man vs. SROT 8 man / ??? 4 man
3. BTD 12 man vs. SiG 12 man

[SpiralFace]

Haji1096, on 08 October 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I was in three group queue drops last night.

1. BTD 12 man vs. BSA 12 man
2. BTD 12 man vs. SROT 8 man / ??? 4 man
3. BTD 12 man vs. SiG 12 man

Thanks for sharing,

Out of curiosity, how does this experience stack up to what it was pre-patch?

Do you see the current matching as an improvement over what was there before?