419 replies to this topic

[Shredhead]

Abivard, on 08 October 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

When I walk outside and it is raining, I do not need to stand in the rain for a week to know I am getting wet.

Exactly. I go back inside and put on a rain coat. The sun will come out again.

Roadbeer, on 08 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Really, so the anecdotal evidence of people specifically not choosing a mode and getting it 7 times in a row is how it's supposed to work?

Stahp, just stahp.

And people can't cope with that for a week? Stahp, just stahp.

[Kirkland Langue]

Once again, as always, the community sends the Devs chasing squirrels.

MM discussions are nothing but a distraction until after CW comes out.
Balance discussions are nothing but a distraction until after CW comes out.

The sooner you idiots realize that - the better MWO will be. But, of course, if the community realized it during CB we wouldn't be at this point where we are now.

[Egomane]

While I do understand the emotions running high on this issue, I'll only repeat myself once, before I'll close the thread.

Egomane, on 08 October 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I'd like everyone to tone down on the hostility towards players with a different opinion.

We are all here to play the game and all opinions are valid. There is no need to get aggressive over it, just because someone doesn't share the same point of view on this, or any other, topic.

Be respectfull to each other!

Edited by Egomane, 08 October 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[jackal404]

Mercules, on 08 October 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

That was my issue with the whole thing. People haven't even given it a chance after not voting on it. Terroristic threats is what they resorted to, for the most part. I say let them have their way and revert back but then you had best punish each and every one of them that did so during that period with at least a temporary ban for breaking the Code of Conduct.

If a protester throws rocks through windows they get charged with vandalism, even if their cause is a good one, they went about it in the wrong way. This is the same thing.

Wait - someone is a terrorist because they say they will stop paying and playing, stop playing, suicide in match, or even TK in match?

They did what they were told to do (with the exception of suicide or TK):
From http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3796823

Egomane, on 07 October 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

If you don't like the new system you have several ways of making that known, without breaking the rules.

1. Make your frustration known!

Create a post about it on the forums. Preferable in an already existing thread if there is one.

2. Stop buying!

If you are buying MC or mech packages or whatever, stop doing so. You can combine that with 1.

3. Stop playing!

If you can't get yourself to play in an unliked gamemode, no matter what, then stop playing MWO completly until this is changed. You can combine this with 1. and 2.

What is not an acceptable solution, is to try to force your will, by griefing other players.

In case you don't recognize the name, he/she is a moderator on these forums.

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 08 October 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Seriously I hope PGI does not treat every change this way... this community is far more capable of spewing garbage and venom all over the forums than constructive criticism. If they use this model to introduce everything, you might as well set it in a time capsule, it will still be the same whenever you want to look at it again.

It is entirely possible that PGI found wisdom in the midst of the apparent madness.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

man he's been talking to us in that thread but still brings it to Twitter first lol



Because the "no" side is less than 3% less than the yes.

Theres a LOT of unhappy ppl. Saying +50% doesnt tell you the whole story; here Ill help:

• Yes - I want the improvement in team ELO differences. (1433 votes [51.70%])
  
• No - I would rather be assured of the game modes I am playing. (1339 votes [48.30%])

Oh, so NOW the poll actually matters? You reverse faster than a politician.

[Mawai]

Sorbic, on 08 October 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

From Russ "Some quick information from the small amount of data we have gathered so far. The solo queue remains consistent at an average ELO difference of 50, so still solid but no real change."

His statement indicated that there might have been a minor change but the biggest thing that should be taken away was the fact that they were going by a TINY sample size of just a few hours. I would have rather seen a meaningful sample size so we could make an informed decision but it's too late now.

The sample size from several hours of prime time play is likely thousands of matches, he said small not tiny . By 4pm today they will have over 24 hours worth of data to look at. This should be sufficient to get a statistically meaningful sampling. They don't need to let it run for a week to find that information.

You also need to decide how much of a change is actually significant AND you should be monitoring both Elo and match outcomes ... is there even any real correlation between modest discrepancies in Elo balance and match outcome? How much of a change in Elo balance is actually significant in affecting match outcomes?

There is a huge amount of data mining that could be done on their existing databases of matches depending on what telemetry they record. They could even consider hiring someone on contract to mine that database for them for specific numbers if they don't have the staffing to do so ... it would go a long way toward making informed decisions.

[Foxfire]

Honestly my concern isn't that PGI tried and not that they reversed. It is that this is a system that needed public testing before going live.

I like that they are attempting to address this issue and I like that they are trying to get the pulse of the community.. but significant changes like this really needs to be vetted and tested as a functional entity for people to have a better understanding of what the choice entails.

[TygerLily]

Mawai, on 08 October 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

"Would you give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play for an increased chance of a more competitive match?"

http://mwomercs.com/...me-mode-voting/

So maybe this should be rephrased ...

"Would you give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play in the SOLO queue IF IT DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?"

"Would you give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play in the GROUP queue if it resulted in better Elo balancing and the possibility of better matching for large groups?"

It is pretty clear that the change affects the two queues quite differently and did NOTHING in the solo queue. As a result, backing out the change and reassessing the situation is the right move to make no matter what the reaction on the forums might be ... hopefully if it does improve group queue matches there might be some way to incorporate some version in the group queue only.

True...Although, I personally didn't the wording difficult obviously some did. I think they had a secondary question on poll #2 that was nuked that said, "Would you like this voting mechanic for groups in the group queue only." Which I think should be a "yes" since it both lowers Elo variance to ~50 and teams can easily coordinate via comms for any game mode (even if they didn't prepare for it).

[Mercules]

jackal404, on 08 October 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wait - someone is a terrorist because they say they will stop paying and playing, stop playing, suicide in match, or even TK in match?

They did what they were told to do (with the exception of suicide or TK):
From http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3796823

In case you don't recognize the name, he/she is a moderator on these forums.

In case you didn't realize I was saying the same thing as them about Terroristic Threats which is the TKing and Alt-F4ing in game. I did mention both things in previous posts and so that probably muddied the water so I should have been more clear when mentioning terroristic threats by which I meant the way people were acting in game that was disrupting the game.

Foxfire, on 08 October 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

but significant changes like this really needs to be vetted and tested as a functional entity for people to have a better understanding of what the choice entails.

How? There isn't a big enough population on the Test Server to properly test the functionality of a MM system and when they put it on live people blew up so huge that they are removing it before half the population probably has even had a chance to play more than a match or two with it in place.

This really is a change that needs testing in a Live environment but people apparently can't let that happen..... so emergency roll back.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 October 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

New poll!

"should PGI re-revert the change to give ppl a chance to get to know the chance before deciding if being forced to play game modes they dont want to play is bad?"

No, nothing of the sort, it's more of a question can you tell if a change is bad for your overall gameplay experience based on a few matches ?

Maybe, but probably not. Most of us aren't really open to change and react very negatively even to things that we will like in the long run. That's why I don't think it's a good idea to revert a change a day after it has been made. Especially since the matchmaker is in question meaning that the effects of any significant change done to it can only be seen statistically, over a range of games.


But I do get that some people hate one or more game modes with a passion. It's just that PGI's move just doesn't strike me as good use of time or resources.

[Foxfire]

But when you know that you cannot stand playing a certain game mode and yet keep finding yourself in those game modes, it doesn't take a significant amount of time to determine if it is a good or bad thing for you. A game is ultimately about enjoyment.

[Gyrok]

VanillaG, on 08 October 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

I really hope that they come back with change ONLY for the group queue. The numbers showed that the change had no affect on the solo matches but had an affect on the group matches. The more people that you can bring in a team min/maxed for a specific game mode the greater influence you can have on the outcome. If people want guaranteed game modes they can play in the solo queue or private matches because both of those types of games can support the exclusions. As it stands right now the group queue cannot support competitive matches AND support game mode exclusions.

Here is a little tidbit.

The people voting no were mostly the group queue.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

RetroActive, on 08 October 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

I agree that the forumites are a minority of the player base, but a minority of the minority is still the minority.

Edit: For grammar!

The majority of the minority is also a minority

Egomane, on 08 October 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

While I do understand the emotions running high on this issue, I'll only repeat myself once, before I'll close the thread.

Be respectfull to each other!

Good luck. The amount of troll and countertroll is nearly every post

[SweetJackal]

Livewyr, on 08 October 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Logically, yes, I would say the forums as a whole are a minority (just as about every other institution of its like)

But what I do not get: How, without any player communication, does anyone (including PGI) know what most of the player base wants?

A: The player base agrees with the Majority of Forum goers.
B: The player base disagrees with the Majority of Forum goers.
C: The player base is well represented by the Forum Goers.
D: The player base is nothing like the Forum Goers.

Which is it, and how do we know?


(On a personal level, it is akin to a losing political candidate claiming he won by the majority that did not show up to vote.
If you do not say anything, how the hell are people supposed to know what you want? One cannot fix a problem for you, that they do not know you have.)

More over, it's more logical to deduce that the only thing forum goers have in common is that they go to the forums. The defining feature of forum users is that they are willing to spend time and effort to voice themselves on this medium.

Meaning the forums might be a minority of players but it is also a cross section of the overall playerbase. If the forums are strongly opposed to a change it doesn't mean that just a vocal minority is opposed to the change but rather that those thoughts and feelings will be reflected by a reasonably close % of the silent majority.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 October 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Oh, so NOW the poll actually matters? You reverse faster than a politician.

Position at the time. Its good for the gander right?

[RetroActive]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 October 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

The majority of the minority is also a minority

I am in awe of your lack of understanding. How DO you do it?

[Kaeseblock]

I'll just leave this here:

on Reddit pgi_kberg said:

We also have lots of nifty new game-mode stuff that we're working on for CW, and it would be very nice to bring at least some of that back into public queue at some point soon in the form of additional game modes. Hard-constraints are simply not a scalable solution, as every new game mode we add splits the queues further and further. Voting scales without harming match quality as a result.

Source: http://www.reddit.co...m_today/cl44q4c

[HUBA]

Destructicus, on 08 October 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Is that what I said I wanted?
No
I'm saying that this whole thing has set a bad precedent, the only thing the community has ever agreed on was Sarah's Jenner, theres always going to be people who are unhappy and everybody is going to cite the silent majority when something doesn't got he way they want.

That's my problem.

hopefully not, I think it was just a bit to fast implemented. If we had got a real improvement it would be understandable why we have to give up a loved feature, but in this case it looked like nothing changed beside you have to play a game mode you don't want.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Im curious as to when all the ppl doing that Tking/suiciding/etc will be reprimanded for it?