419 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

Vercinaigh, on 09 October 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

Yes and sadly though there are a lot of us upper pilots, and we're starting to burn out. A lot of us really only play scrims and such anymore and if that's not happening, more and more of us arn't playing anymore. We attract crowds at the tourneys when they happen, are a large part of why they happen. We contribute massive amounts of content and events to the community that all levels enjoy. I'm not saying we're more important than anyone else, we're not. But we are getting the massive short end of the stick, and for all that we do, slowly all the fun of just playing with your mates is being eroded from the game.

I can only ask that people consider what I've said here, between these facts and of course other problems unique to each individual, these people are starting to vanish, that's never a good thing, for any game I've ever been a part of, so much of what everyone enjoys is run by these people, including myself. We want to love this game, and see it succeed far beyond expectations or preconceptions, and a good bunch of us actively help it happen, albeit slowly, for now. But as it stands, it's just not much fun for us. Sure we enjoy the time we spend playing with the mates, but then, if the game itself adds little to the moment other than something to do...I think you get the point and by now I'm surely rambling.

Anyways I just hope people really think about that, and start considering such things, we arn't the boogie man or out to get anyone, we want the same stuff as everyone else mostly, we have a high level of understanding on the game that helps us contribute a lot to some things, but in the end, we just want to have fun too and play against like skilled and like minded groups and people, it's no fun to beat up on people, and it doesn't make us feel any better either. We were starting to get it with the change, and now it's gone

~Vercinaigh
Alpha of Golden Keshik

LOL " I'm not saying we're more important" I'll just imply it.

[Vercinaigh]

RG Notch, on 09 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

LOL " I'm not saying we're more important" I'll just imply it.

Not at all...but we arn't any less important...and we do get the shaft pretty hard, all I was saying...but feel free to take whatever pleases you from it :/

N0MAD, on 09 October 2014 - 04:46 AM, said:

I do feel for you bro seriously.
Been there in that bracket you play, not with MWO not enough people at least not competitive groups.
I played competitive MW from MW2 thru 4, i was Khan of SJ for a very long time and was lucky enough to have a team of very active skilled players, we had alot of large good leagues to play in, some Planetary some Ladders (its was SJ that ran the BZ league for a long time) so we always had some where to play competitively.
I feel PGI actually killed the competitive scene here early on by not giving us the private lobbies early in the game, back then in the beginning i filled my friends list with old Mw vets that became founders, we all waited for the lobbies so we could set up/participate in the play we had in previous MW versions, unfortunately 95% of those vets left and have never returned, the lack of those lobies is the main reason they left.
I miss the old MW days....
BTW PGI not giving this game a General chat where people can commune is a huge mistake, it just doesnt give the community a place to meet, bond and grow, but hey they know best.....

Can't really disagree with this, killed is a strong word, but severely restricted growth, would be fair.

[Raistlic]

When did video games become a democracy? After all, it's pgi's game. They could do with it whatever they want: even with a pure 50/50. I find it rather nice, that they took a poll into account. But that is all the have to do: taking it into account. It's not that they have to act along it's outcome. Where are the days when players were able to deal and adapt to what was given to them. And maybe - just maybe - our Elo isnt just that great as we perceive it. It's actually rather hard for people to admit that they are not as good as a player as others. The reasons, why we are stomped are always something else, but never our own lack of skill.

Edited by Raistlic, 09 October 2014 - 06:53 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Is it out yet?

[Vercinaigh]

Raistlic, on 09 October 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

When did video games become a democracy? After all, it's pgi's game. They could do with it whatever they want: even with a pure 50/50. I find it rather nice, that they took a poll into account. But that is all the have to do: taking it into account. It's not that they have to act along it's outcome. Where are the days when players were able to deal and adapt to what was given to them. And maybe - just maybe - our Elo isnt just that great as we perceive it. It's actually rather hard for people to admit that they are not as good as a player as others. The reasons, why we are stomped are always something else, but never our own lack of skill.

Yeah but what about the other side of that coin, those of us who do the stomping, and miss out on playing all the other guys doing stomping, playing at the same time...we'd like good matches too.

[HUBA]

IMO the competitive player should not try to influence the game to make it "better" the should ask for a separation in fact it is much easer to match high elo players because of there play style. Make a hard core queue where every player bring the best mech. Or a separate group queue with very strict requirement e.g. only 4, 8 and 12 player and 2 weight groups 40t and 75t per mech. This queue can perfectly matched by elo, but the casual player has a totally different play style and this would be better matched by mechs then by a w/l ratio. Casual and pro player should not (always) play together, the should be separated not because pro player are better (arrogant), because they are better (skill). You maybe could discuss what you (the pro player) want and ask for it. I guess it is much easier to make a separate MM then find a way to match all player and all there needs.

[Vercinaigh]

HUBA, on 09 October 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

IMO the competitive player should not try to influence the game to make it "better" the should ask for a separation in fact it is much easer to match high elo players because of there play style. Make a hard core queue where every player bring the best mech. Or a separate group queue with very strict requirement e.g. only 4, 8 and 12 player and 2 weight groups 40t and 75t per mech. This queue can perfectly matched by elo, but the casual player has a totally different play style and this would be better matched by mechs then by a w/l ratio. Casual and pro player should not (always) play together, the should be separated not because pro player are better (arrogant), because they are better (skill). You maybe could discuss what you (the pro player) want and ask for it. I guess it is much easier to make a separate MM then find a way to match all player and all there needs.

So what you're saying is we can only play certain times of the day and have to wait 15+ minutes for a game at peak, hours not at peak, gee, thanks for the consideration! Also this change did make it "better" for others, you did not have to get 3 minute stomped by us for two days! I would know, played entirely through it, never happened, played all teams I recognized and was only getting better. Now we go back to your regularly scheduled stomping, yay fun(/sarcasm)!

Edited by Vercinaigh, 09 October 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Is it out yet?

If so; why is this thread still open? literally the subject would already have happened.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[HUBA]

no I'm saying you should talk to your friends and all competitive player you can and figure out how many are there and how strict you are willing to be to archive a MM that will give you good games. I heard some player would wait 15+ min if they can have better games. But if there just not enough player it will be hart to find this matches or you tight up the requirement and make it easier for the MM. Actually you can try it with this MM. Just try to find a weight that would allow a good lance and try this weight limit with other competitive teams you might already have a better chance to get this teams.

Edited by HUBA, 09 October 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[Vercinaigh]

HUBA, on 09 October 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

no I'm saying you should talk to your friends and all competitive player you can and figure out how many are there and how strict you are willing to be to archive a MM that will give you good games. I heard some player would wait 15+ min if they can have better games. But if there just not enough player it will be hart to find this matches or you tight up the requirement and make it easier for the MM. Actually you can try it with this MM. Just try to find a weight that would allow a good lance and try this weight limit with other competitive teams you might already have a better chance to get this teams.

All that has literally nothing to do with getting better games...it doesn't match us against each other, I reside on Mercstar ts, the biggest competitive TS in MWO, we can all see each other playing, there can be 10 active 10 mans, all at once, and we will -never- see one another, maybe occasionally, with the MM we just lost, we saw one another constantly...

[HUBA]

sorry there is no way that the MM could do this (ok, maybe a slide improve but no magic) only if you all selected different game modes, But I guess you selected all. There were a time where you had to sync drop and it worked (more or less) but you have to trick the MM a bit. Thats the only thing I can do suggest you try it and also if there enough player to run a own queue ask for it. I would also like a queue where you get a good tough game but I also like the game where I goof around, try new builds or just want to shoot things.

[Vercinaigh]

And you still had it mate, infact you had it more, because we played with each other more, that explicitly means we played against you guys goofing off less, period. Now you're back to facing us, out numbered, in angry mode all night, fun for everyone involved...not. And there is a way it could do this, it was -just- doing this, now it's not, because they reverted what was working, to something that doesn't. Dunno how else to explain that to you :/

[Triordinant]

If y'all go to your Profile page, click the Stats tab, then click Challenges, you'll see some of the "research" on this issue PGI has planned for the weekend.

[Kjudoon]

TygerLily, on 08 October 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Sept 21st the Community votes 78% yes for "Would you give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play for an increased chance of a more competitive match?"

October 7th we give up the ability to guarantee the game mode you play for an increased chance of a more competitive match.

October 7th...

October 7th the Community votes 51% yes for, 49% against "Would you like to keep the game mode voting system as currently implemented?"

October 8th...feature removed.

October 8th...400 more threads created complaining about MM meanwhile there are hard barricades between certain players due to game mode exclusion thus making the matchmaker less effective.

This goes back to the hatred between the Conquerors and the Skirmishers spawned by months... nay, over a year of "Stoopid cap losers!" before Skirmish mode was created and those cap haters got their own sandbox to play in and complain over griefing hiders.

You will not reconcile this rift as both sides would rather quit than play with one another in the majority of cases.

Triordinant, on 09 October 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

If y'all go to your Profile page, click the Stats tab, then click Challenges, you'll see some of the "research" on this issue PGI has planned for the weekend.

What irritates me is I'm only able to play on Skirmish day... meaning I won't be doing any challenges... SINCE I will be returning now that the stupid mode voting is removed.

Edited by Kjudoon, 09 October 2014 - 07:02 PM.

[Mekwarrior]

Thanks to PGI for bringing back the game mode choice.

I think it wasn't a good idea to remove the major game feature of choice just to try and eek out a slight tweak to elo.

[Vercinaigh]

Mekwarrior, on 09 October 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Thanks to PGI for bringing back the game mode choice.

I think it wasn't a good idea to remove the major game feature of choice just to try and eek out a slight tweak to elo.

Was the difference between facing people that gave us good games, and 3 min rofl stomps that take longer to actually search for than to play, I'd say more than slight, tbh.

[Ultimax]

Vercinaigh, on 09 October 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

And you still had it mate, infact you had it more, because we played with each other more, that explicitly means we played against you guys goofing off less, period. Now you're back to facing us, out numbered, in angry mode all night, fun for everyone involved...not. And there is a way it could do this, it was -just- doing this, now it's not, because they reverted what was working, to something that doesn't. Dunno how else to explain that to you :/

Has Russ' suggestion of selecting all modes helped?

It's not perfect, but if all of you do that then the way the MM works you should get matched together.

[MischiefSC]

Hmm....

can it be something you opt into?

@Vercinaigh;

Suppose it was something you opted in to. You click a 'flexible' box next to it before launch and it uses your gamemode selections more as a suggestion than a hard cap, which still gets you the increased probability of matching in your Elo range while letting the scrub tier pick their matches.

So even if some other competitive team is actually scrubfarming, you and your mates pop in with a 'Eff game mode, bring on the VIKINGS cuz this train is rolling to Valhalla' box ticked and effectively *go find them* no matter how they're trying to drop.

This strikes me as an elegant solution because in a way it lets the people who, apparently, will suffer permanent emotional damage if they have to drop in Conquest/Skirmish/don't get enough ketchup with their fries/ play with their helmet on so they don't get hurt falling off the bus while those who are more sensitive to the benefits of closer Elo matching chuck the safety helmet, drop the kid gloves and go hunting bear.

To look at it from an experience perspective this essentially gives the best of both worlds. You click 'BOSS MODE' and the matchmaker weights you strictly to tonnage and Elo, ideally with a preference towards Elo. It goes out and finds the most BAMFs in your Elo range no matter where they are and it tries to cook you guys in the same pot. Especially in the group queue this will effectively serve to better clump the higher end of the Elo spectrum and keep them out of the kiddie pool at the same time. For the people who prefer specific game modes they can still pick them - just for the BOSS MODE folks they'll come find the best Elo match available for the mechs they've picked.

How's that sound?

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 09 October 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Hmm....

can it be something you opt into?

@Vercinaigh;

Suppose it was something you opted in to. You click a 'flexible' box next to it before launch and it uses your gamemode selections more as a suggestion than a hard cap, which still gets you the increased probability of matching in your Elo range while letting the scrub tier pick their matches.

So even if some other competitive team is actually scrubfarming, you and your mates pop in with a 'Eff game mode, bring on the VIKINGS cuz this train is rolling to Valhalla' box ticked and effectively *go find them* no matter how they're trying to drop.

This strikes me as an elegant solution because in a way it lets the people who, apparently, will suffer permanent emotional damage if they have to drop in Conquest/Skirmish/don't get enough ketchup with their fries/ play with their helmet on so they don't get hurt falling off the bus while those who are more sensitive to the benefits of closer Elo matching chuck the safety helmet, drop the kid gloves and go hunting bear.

To look at it from an experience perspective this essentially gives the best of both worlds. You click 'BOSS MODE' and the matchmaker weights you strictly to tonnage and Elo, ideally with a preference towards Elo. It goes out and finds the most BAMFs in your Elo range no matter where they are and it tries to cook you guys in the same pot. Especially in the group queue this will effectively serve to better clump the higher end of the Elo spectrum and keep them out of the kiddie pool at the same time. For the people who prefer specific game modes they can still pick them - just for the BOSS MODE folks they'll come find the best Elo match available for the mechs they've picked.

How's that sound?

So people who want a choice in what they want are scrubs/kiddies/ play with helmets, what other insults?
While those that dont are Boss/drop gloves/and hunt bears in another word what Elite?.
Dude really?

[Vercinaigh]

Ultimatum X, on 09 October 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Has Russ' suggestion of selecting all modes helped?

It's not perfect, but if all of you do that then the way the MM works you should get matched together.

We've honestly not tried that in all fairness. but again, neither do the other units and unless they do too, impact will almost certainly be minimal, we cannot control other units.

MischiefSC, on 09 October 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Hmm....

can it be something you opt into?

@Vercinaigh;

Suppose it was something you opted in to. You click a 'flexible' box next to it before launch and it uses your gamemode selections more as a suggestion than a hard cap, which still gets you the increased probability of matching in your Elo range while letting the scrub tier pick their matches.

So even if some other competitive team is actually scrubfarming, you and your mates pop in with a 'Eff game mode, bring on the VIKINGS cuz this train is rolling to Valhalla' box ticked and effectively *go find them* no matter how they're trying to drop.

This strikes me as an elegant solution because in a way it lets the people who, apparently, will suffer permanent emotional damage if they have to drop in Conquest/Skirmish/don't get enough ketchup with their fries/ play with their helmet on so they don't get hurt falling off the bus while those who are more sensitive to the benefits of closer Elo matching chuck the safety helmet, drop the kid gloves and go hunting bear.

To look at it from an experience perspective this essentially gives the best of both worlds. You click 'BOSS MODE' and the matchmaker weights you strictly to tonnage and Elo, ideally with a preference towards Elo. It goes out and finds the most BAMFs in your Elo range no matter where they are and it tries to cook you guys in the same pot. Especially in the group queue this will effectively serve to better clump the higher end of the Elo spectrum and keep them out of the kiddie pool at the same time. For the people who prefer specific game modes they can still pick them - just for the BOSS MODE folks they'll come find the best Elo match available for the mechs they've picked.

How's that sound?

As much as I hate to say this, give a lot of people option for easy cbill farming, they're gonna take it, more often than not. Would this maybe help if all the units tried to do this? Sure, but I am sad to say reality won't match the hope.