102 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

TygerLily, on 09 October 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

240's the "magic number": http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3763141

I hardly see that as the magic number. Some people like light but hate assault and vice versa, however the assault pilots are forced into taking light mechs if they want to take their preferred ride. If picking 2 100 ton mechs allowed them to at least take a heavy and a medium for the last 2 slots it would be a better compromise.

[Squally160]

I jsut want to know why I have to bring 4 mechs, thats annoying. I dont run lights because I dont want to

[Chemie]

the real question is will they drop the clan drop weight to balance? Might be only way. Many clans will drop with 2 timberwolfs which match IS medium speed and IS assault firepower. How exactly will IS counter those?

[Lefty Lucy]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

I hardly see that as the magic number. Some people like light but hate assault and vice versa, however the assault pilots are forced into taking light mechs if they want to take their preferred ride. If picking 2 100 ton mechs allowed them to at least take a heavy and a medium for the last 2 slots it would be a better compromise.

In the current state of the game assault mechs are just straight up more powerful. There should be a downside to bringing mechs that are so powerful. If you don't want to adapt to that, then don't play in CW.

[Deathlike]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

I hardly see that as the magic number. Some people like light but hate assault and vice versa, however the assault pilots are forced into taking light mechs if they want to take their preferred ride. If picking 2 100 ton mechs allowed them to at least take a heavy and a medium for the last 2 slots it would be a better compromise.

For the record, that comes to at least 300 tons of mechs. 2 100 tonners + 1 40 tonner (Cicada) + 1 60 tonner (Dragon/Quickdraw)... and there's more for the Clanners. That simply cannot happen. Even if you specialize in Assaults, you need to master one other class as well. You can still put 2 Victors and 2 Cicadas together with the current system as designed (arguably better than 2 Atlases + 2 Locusts).

[Pendraco]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

I hardly see that as the magic number. Some people like light but hate assault and vice versa, however the assault pilots are forced into taking light mechs if they want to take their preferred ride. If picking 2 100 ton mechs allowed them to at least take a heavy and a medium for the last 2 slots it would be a better compromise.

So take 2 80 tonners and 2 40 tonners....then you would not have to suffer a light mech at all. I realize some people do not want to pilot anything but Assaults....But a lot of people don't want to fight endless waves of the same 100t mechs

[Morang]

Actually 235 is correct average if we sum median weight of all weight classes. 240 is actually all 17 possible tonnages averaged to get 60 tons average weight across the board, then multiplied by four to get a lance. But that gives extra influence to Assault class, as there are 5 tonnage marks in it (unlike 4 in all other classes). To factor all weight classes equally we should sum averages of each weight class. 27.5 + 47.5 + 67.5 + 90 = 232.5, rounding up to 235.

By the way that's the case with Clan mechs from TRO3050. There are 16 of them, 4 per weight class, and they miss the 90-ton Assault mech, so if we sum their masses and divide by 16 and multiply by 4 (or simply divide by 4), we get 232.5.

I think that in order to make things more fair and enforce similar kind of limit on Light pilots when it comes to weight classes, lower bracket should also be rised to 145 tons at least to prohibit taking 4 lights, as four 35-tonners fit perfectly into 140 tons (BTW it takes lower bracket of 210 tons to prevent taking 3 lights - heaviest possible combination with 3 lights being 100 + 35 +35 +35 = 205).

Edited by Morang, 09 October 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Morang, on 09 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Actually 235 is correct average if we sum median weight of all weight classes. 240 is actually all 17 possible tonnages averaged to get 60 tons average weight across the board, then multiplied by four to get a lance. But that gives extra influence to Assault class, as there are 5 tonnage marks in it (unlike 4 in all other classes). To factor all weight classes equally we should sum averages of each weight class. 27.5 + 47.5 + 67.5 + 90 = 232.5, rounding up to 235.

By the way that's the case with Clan mechs from TRO3050. There are 16 of them, 4 per weight class, and they miss the 90-ton Assault mech, so if we sum their masses and divide by 16 and multiply by 4 (or simply divide by 4), we get 232.5.

Yeah, but weight classes are just labels. They don't actually mean much. 80 tons mechs are functionally very similar to 75 ton mechs, and 60 ton mechs may as well be 55, despite both of those mechs being in different "weight classes."

[Gyrok]

FrupertApricot, on 09 October 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Too low? you are just wanting to play only heavy mechs apparently.

Honestly, MEdium mechs should be the ever present ak47 of the battlefield, and others should constitute a terrifying change from a norm.

Games like red orchestra gave most of their players bolt action rifles, so that the automatics feel special and cool. I think mech tonnage could be the same way. At least incentivize people to not always just use "best in category" mechs as much.

You must be only wanting to play mediums and lights it seems.

Go back to whatever rock you crawled out from.

Honestly 3/3/3/3 allows a maximum of 265 tons, and you know everyone would bring that or close to it...so would you rather have 3/3/3/3 and have everyone bring DW/TW/SCR/Light, or would you rather have some...heaven forbid...diversity?

Edited by Gyrok, 09 October 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Scratx]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Mad Doge does have potential to be effective, albeit while losing one side.

Dragon has its limitations.

Yup.

TygerLily, on 09 October 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Exaclty...and you can't mix IS or Clan because it's a CW mode anyway. I think that's correct.

Indeed. Was just pointing out one chassis for each side of the fray.

Gyrok, on 09 October 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

You must be only wanting to play mediums and lights it seems.

Go back to whatever rock you crawled out from.

Honestly 3/3/3/3 allows a maximum of 265 tons, and you know everyone would bring that or close to it...so would you rather have 3/3/3/3 and have everyone bring DW/TW/SCR/Light, or would you rather have some...heaven forbid...diversity?

This. 1/1/1/1 , taking the max tonnage, would indeed hit 265 tons. So overall it's actually not much of a sacrifice compared to straight 1/1/1/1. On the other hand this does mean that tonnage ratings other than the maximum tonnage per class are useful.

The drop decks for players will be interesting to see. No more than 240 tons should still be more than enough for assault mechs to be used but the lighter chassis should see significantly more use. Which is in line with canon, really.

Curious to see it in play.

[Chemie]

12-mans will take 12x240. They will drop against random pugs who have decide to load out 140 or whatever the min is because that fits their play style and they have this uber-build for their light that totally dominates the world. You know the outcome for that.....

Edited by Chemie, 09 October 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

This will pretty much force the CW crowd to play mediums. The only way out of that is to drop with four Dragons/Quickdraws, and I don't see anyone doing that. The more assaults one brings, the more mediums or lights they'll be bringing in their next waves. So that's a good thing.

[WarHippy]

Lefty Lucy, on 09 October 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

In the current state of the game assault mechs are just straight up more powerful. There should be a downside to bringing mechs that are so powerful. If you don't want to adapt to that, then don't play in CW.

Then don't force people to take 4 mechs. If I want to use all my weight on two mechs instead of 4 lights then so be it. If you are that worried about the balance between lights and assaults find another solution that isn't the same as telling the guy driving a main battle tank to pilot an F-16 and learn to adapt. Different skills sets. Of course that brings up another question why is the assault pilot the only one that has to compromise and adapt? Why does the light pilot not need to adapt to fighting targets bigger than them?

Deathlike, on 09 October 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

For the record, that comes to at least 300 tons of mechs. 2 100 tonners + 1 40 tonner (Cicada) + 1 60 tonner (Dragon/Quickdraw)... and there's more for the Clanners. That simply cannot happen. Even if you specialize in Assaults, you need to master one other class as well. You can still put 2 Victors and 2 Cicadas together with the current system as designed (arguably better than 2 Atlases + 2 Locusts).

300 sounds reasonable to me if we are forced to take 4 mechs. If the only option for bringing two assault mechs without also bringing two lights(which the cicada resembles more than its medium designation suggests) is to bring the lowest weight assault why bother creating anything larger? As for the clanners they can't even bring two 100 tonners if they wanted as their smallest light is going to be 25 tons for the foreseeable future. 240 is too light.

Pendraco, on 09 October 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

So take 2 80 tonners and 2 40 tonners....then you would not have to suffer a light mech at all. I realize some people do not want to pilot anything but Assaults....But a lot of people don't want to fight endless waves of the same 100t mechs

Some people don't want to fight endless waves of the same 35 ton mechs either, but that is ok?

Edited by WarHippy, 09 October 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Zfailboat]

240T = Min / Max idea and this is what PGI have used.

If you take 2 MAX weights - 100T and 75 T
you must take to MIN Weights - 40 T and 25 T (assuming clan light)

175 T + 65 T = 240 T

[Zfailboat]

Also if you don't like 240 T simply don't play this game mode, no one is forcing you to.

If not enough people play it, PGI will need to change it. They are not going to have 6 months worth of programming sit there unused.

[Pendraco]

Quote

Some people don't want to fight endless waves of the same 35 ton mechs either, but that is ok?

Honestly think this is going to be a problem? Anyone that chooses to bring all 35t Mechs is gimping they're team - I would face those all day long with my dropship of 1 assault, 1 heavy, 2 Mediums...Now if those 35t Mechs start sporting 6 UAC5's and 100 points of CT armor I might change my mind.

Edited by Pendraco, 09 October 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Deathlike]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

300 sounds reasonable to me if we are forced to take 4 mechs. If the only option for bringing two assault mechs without also bringing two lights(which the cicada resembles more than its medium designation suggests) is to bring the lowest weight assault why bother creating anything larger? As for the clanners they can't even bring two 100 tonners if they wanted as their smallest light is going to be 25 tons for the foreseeable future. 240 is too light.

I would just bring 4 Timberwolves with a 300 ton limit. Really.

[WarHippy]

Pendraco, on 09 October 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Honestly think this is going to be a problem? Anyone that chooses to bring all 35t Mechs is gimping they're team - I would face those all day long with my dropship of 1 assault, 1 heavy, 2 Mediums...Now if those 35t Mechs start sporting 6 UAC5's and 100 points of CT armor I might change my mind.

Dire Wovles don't scare me in the slightest as there is nothing scary about a slow moving target with limited ammo, but you get a couple Raven 3L or some Jenner's running around and I'm going to be concerned. Wave after wave of fast moving strikers are more of a threat than a couple semi-mobile turrets. The point being why use the excuse of seeing too many of some mechs as a reason to limit people but not others?

Deathlike, on 09 October 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I would just bring 4 Timberwolves with a 300 ton limit. Really.

If that is what you want to bring then so be it, but if you are really that concerned about it we could drop it to 295. If we were not forced to bring 4 I would be ok with 245-250 because then I could bring 2 Atlas mechs and a Blackjack if I wanted.

Edited by WarHippy, 09 October 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Timuroslav]

Except for that Fact, That if Everyone Takes 2 100-ton Assault mechs you're fighting 24 Direwolves and their ECM MASC Fire Moths? Granted there will be no mixed tech. But, Innersphere fighting 24 Direwolves that are defending a base with ECM MASC Fire Moths. Let Alone Meta Wolves. Clanners are already talking about stacking Timberwolves and Mad Dogs. What Fun...

Seriously, Do you want to ******* fight that? That's Garbage.

Yes, Mediums should be the Main mechs Chasis in Dropship mode
Get over it. Embrace Diversity!
Heavy's and Assaults are the Main mechs in Skirmish Conquest and Assault mode

Mediums and light mechs should have 1 game mode favoring them. Wholly, molly people fighting so hard for Assaults online

I say 210tonnes up to 220 220 Being the Maximum

Edited by Timuroslav, 09 October 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[Deathlike]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

If that is what you want to bring then so be it, but if you are really that concerned about it we could drop it to 295. If we were not forced to bring 4 I would be ok with 245-250 because then I could bring 2 Atlas mechs and a Blackjack if I wanted.

No... that wasn't the point. The point was 240 tons is pretty much fine. 300 tons is way too much.

In a tonnage restrictive system, you ultimately need to master two classes minimum to make the most of it, or "give up" with the Locust (Clans have literally no recourse when trying to put out 2 Daishis, which means having to downgrade one Dire Wolf to a Masakari or Gargoyle, to go with a Myst Lynx and/or Kitfox in some combination).

Edited by Deathlike, 09 October 2014 - 02:45 PM.