60 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

Do you have a cERLL range module equipped?

I didnt know they existed for clan O.o

I know they have range modules for IS

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Doesn't it show that information on those little screens in the cockpit?

ohwait...

[Dock Steward]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

Because you do well with something doesn't make it good. People do great with IS LBX-AC10's, that doesn't make them good weapons. They are objectively poor choices, and yet... people still use them and do well with them.

The thing is, they are doing well in spite of them not because of them.

The same applies here with TC's. They provide a very minimal bonus at an extremely high cost. In a laser based builds, more DHS are always a superior choice because:

A: You cannot be heat neutral. You can't. Not if you've got several clan ER medium and/or large lasers
B: More DHS increase your heat capacity as well as your heat dissipation. Your damage output in an energy build is directly, absolutely limited by your heat capacity (spike damage output) and dissipation (damage over time). Damage over time isn't enormously important, as you can take cover and cool (except when pushed by aggressive players). Spike damage, however, is critically important. Packing more DHS allow you to fire more before hitting heatcap.

A rank 1 TC can be worthwhile - your ton/benefit investment is far superior in that case, so if you've got a slot and a ton free, a rank 1 TC is a great way to fill that slot. But if you've got more? DHS are simply superior.


Do you have a cERLL range module equipped?

I know when it's me, and when it's me AND the mech. KDR in my other mechs mostly pales...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

My current modules

If the range is less than its showing, I need to put in a bug report maybe

ALL thats on the mech is one CERLL and one MK VII CTC

I took everything else off

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[Wintersdark]

---

Aha, my bad. Checked Smurfy's for the cERLL range. It's 740m in game right now. Curious, as Smurfy says 675.

Still, the bonus is nearly identical:
Base: 740m
Rank1: 757m
Rank7: 794m



My apologies for using Smurfy's cERLL max range. Interestingly, when they nerfed the cERLL, they said they were cutting the range, and hence the XML data range. This means they didn't change it as much as they said. Yay!


But do you really think that 7 tons, 7 slots is worth +0.2 damage at 793m vs. without it?

[Dock Steward]

Sometimes getting 1 or 2 more seconds worth of firing before overheat isn't that important. That's all that more heat sinks gets you sometimes. At some point, yeah, I'd rather spend tonnage on making things more effective in another way.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

---

Aha, my bad. Checked Smurfy's for the cERLL range. It's 740m in game right now. Curious, as Smurfy says 675.

Still, the bonus is nearly identical:
Base: 740m
Rank1: 757m
Rank7: 794m



My apologies for using Smurfy's cERLL max range. Interestingly, when they nerfed the cERLL, they said they were cutting the range, and hence the XML data range. This means they didn't change it as much as they said. Yay!


But do you really think that 7 tons, 7 slots is worth +0.2 damage at 793m vs. without it?

Id rather have 793m +12.5% crit, yes

also; I can have trigger discipline and NOT overheat with less heat sinks.

Same way I was running the 6 AC/2 DD after ghost heat and still having 900 damage games.

Without trigger discipline, you overheat in 8 sec and were screwed

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Dock Steward, on 09 October 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

I know when it's me, and when it's me AND the mech. KDR in my other mechs mostly pales...

Perhaps for other reasons? Are those other mechs identical except for +3DHS, a rank 1 TC instead of rank 7, and three other tons of love to use effectively (potentially even more DHS, as lasers are small as well as light)?

I'll assume you do in fact know when it's you, and when it's you AND the mech. But if you look at it objectively, the gains in an energy based build between tons in TC and tons in DHS are pretty dramatically different, because you can't have enough DHS in a clan laser based build.

[Dock Steward]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Perhaps for other reasons? Are those other mechs identical except for +3DHS, a rank 1 TC instead of rank 7, and three other tons of love to use effectively (potentially even more DHS, as lasers are small as well as light)?

I'll assume you do in fact know when it's you, and when it's you AND the mech. But if you look at it objectively, the gains in an energy based build between tons in TC and tons in DHS are pretty dramatically different, because you can't have enough DHS in a clan laser based build.

I disagree. Like I said, sometimes 1 more second of firing is meaningless when I could have had the TC and crit'd my enemy's weapon away from him.

[Wintersdark]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 October 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Id rather have 793m +12.5% crit, yes

also; I can have trigger discipline and NOT overheat with less heat sinks.

Both players can have trigger discipline and not overheat. However, the fellow with the DHS can push another full alpha more. Remember, that 53m means each laser does only .2 damage more past max range. +12.5% crit means you get slightly more crits, but because you're talking lasers, each laser does damage in roughly .2s ticks(could be inaccurate here, may be .1 to .2s ticks, but we'll use .2s because that gives the best crits). A cERLL burns for 1.6s, so that's 8 ticks. Each potential crit, then, is doing 1.375 damage to a randomly determined internal component: Again, split between destroyable components and invincible components. You'll need to get 7 crits to a single component through all that randomisation to destroy it.

I can see using a R1TC. It's still not really great, but I won't argue that. But R7? 6 tons, 6 slots, for +6% crit chance(not crit damage, just increased chance to generate tiny crits) over rank 1 and +37m (and thus +0.1 damage past optimal)?

At the cost of heat capacity and dissipation, as well as more armor or whatever else?

Dock Steward, on 09 October 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

I disagree. Like I said, sometimes 1 more second of firing is meaningless when I could have had the TC and crit'd my enemy's weapon away from him.

That's a pretty specific and rare situation, where you'd have destroyed a weapon with the TC but not destroyed it without. I'm curious, what specific build are you referring to?

On the other hand, being able to fire longer bursts more often, AND carrying more armor or whatever else with that tonnage, is always useful.

[Dock Steward]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Both players can have trigger discipline and not overheat. However, the fellow with the DHS can push another full alpha more. Remember, that 53m means each laser does only .2 damage more past max range. +12.5% crit means you get slightly more crits, but because you're talking lasers, each laser does damage in roughly .2s ticks(could be inaccurate here, may be .1 to .2s ticks, but we'll use .2s because that gives the best crits). A cERLL burns for 1.6s, so that's 8 ticks. Each potential crit, then, is doing 1.375 damage to a randomly determined internal component: Again, split between destroyable components and invincible components. You'll need to get 7 crits to a single component through all that randomisation to destroy it.

I can see using a R1TC. It's still not really great, but I won't argue that. But R7? 6 tons, 6 slots, for +6% crit chance(not crit damage, just increased chance to generate tiny crits) over rank 1 and +37m (and thus +0.1 damage past optimal)?

At the cost of heat capacity and dissipation, as well as more armor or whatever else?


That's a pretty specific and rare situation, where you'd have destroyed a weapon with the TC but not destroyed it without. I'm curious, what specific build are you referring to?

On the other hand, being able to fire longer bursts more often, AND carrying more armor or whatever else with that tonnage, is always useful.

Put it this way: you set out to build a laser boat. You put in all the lasers you want, then you load it up with heatsinks. You come down to your last 5 slots and you have 5 tons left. Your armor is already basically maxed (minus a few points). You can either have 2 more heatsinks and fire for 2 more seconds, and just leave it 3 tons short because you don't need ammo and don't want to change the weapons. OR you can put in a mk V TC and increase the effectiveness of almost every shot you take.

Clearly YOU'RE not gonna take the TC. I do. You look at numbers and rationalize that the TC isn't worth it. Guess what? I looked at numbers and decided it was worth it. Only the numbers I looked at were the results. The kills. The damage. The Crits. The XP. And the C-bills. You clearly haven't actually run a TC, so you're just going off of theory.

Edited by Dock Steward, 09 October 2014 - 04:04 PM.

[Wintersdark]

So, lets say a fairly average laser-vomit Timberwolf build (using 2 JJ because locked JJ's either now or in the next patch, not sure if that's changed yet): TBR-C

Heatcapacity 83.52
Dissipation 4.55 heat/s
Approximate time to overheat 00:11
Sustained dps (without overheating) 4.96 dmg/s

This is with a Rank 1 TC.

Strip the R1TC and 6 DHS:


Heatcapacity 73.44
Dissipation 3.59 heat/s
Approximate time to overheat 00:08
Sustained dps (without overheating) 3.88 dmg/s

Now, I know that overall sustained DPS isn't enormously relevant, but the +DHS build is able to output roughly 25% more damage than the TC build can, assuming both have decent fire control and don't overheat. 25% more damage done is going to do a LOT more crits overall than +6% crit rate is, and the +0.1 damage per cERLL is really not going to make a lot of difference.

[Wintersdark]

Dock Steward, on 09 October 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

Clearly YOU'RE not gonna take the TC. I do. You look at numbers and rationalize that the TC isn't worth it. Guess what? I looked at numbers and decided it was worth it. Only the numbers I looked at were the results. The kills. The damage. The Crits. The XP. And the C-bills. You clearly haven't actually run a TC, so you're just going off of theory.

Show me the specific build you're talking about. Seriously, I'm really, really curious. I get that I may look like I'm absolutely set in my ways and not willing to listen, but I'd like to see the build you're speaking of, where you've got "enough" DHS, and feel the space/tonnage is best used in a large TC. I've no problem admitting I'm wrong, and am absolutely willing to accept that there may be edge case builds where a TC is the optimal path. Show me.

I have hundreds of drops with TC's. I spent a great deal of time working with the full range of them, to get a good feel for them in use as well as in raw stats. But when doing that, I was looking at it as objectively as possible, and comparing with DHS and other related builds, because I spent those drops specifically evaluating targeting computers, because they where a new thing in the game.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Meh, guess im just silly then. I like my TC lol

Then again, Ive pulled 1300 damage games in a Boar's Head (which Im constantly told is the most **** mech) lol

and 900 in a all ac/2 dd XD

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Dock Steward]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Show me the specific build you're talking about. Seriously, I'm really, really curious. I get that I may look like I'm absolutely set in my ways and not willing to listen, but I'd like to see the build you're speaking of, where you've got "enough" DHS, and feel the space/tonnage is best used in a large TC. I've no problem admitting I'm wrong, and am absolutely willing to accept that there may be edge case builds where a TC is the optimal path. Show me.

I have hundreds of drops with TC's. I spent a great deal of time working with the full range of them, to get a good feel for them in use as well as in raw stats. But when doing that, I was looking at it as objectively as possible, and comparing with DHS and other related builds, because I spent those drops specifically evaluating targeting computers, because they where a new thing in the game.

Look, here comes the douchiest thing I've ever said in my life: I'm in a league at the moment, and I try to keep our builds...proprietary. I'd rather not post it here, but I have no problem showing it to just you. How do I send it to you?

[White Bear 84]

Roadbeer, on 09 October 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Magic.
I can have a SSRM launcher in my head and the ammo in my feet and it just appears despite how much damage is in between.

Interdimensional helper surats.

[Deathlike]

Dock Steward, on 09 October 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

True, except Targeting Computers can greatly increase the Crit chance. This seems to be still catching on in use though. Doesn't seem like too many people regularly run TC's...

I keep being told that the basic TC (v1) is the best option. It doesn't seem like a drag and it's pretty much worth its weight.

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

1) Targeting Computers are generally bad wastes of tonnage. People assume they are much better than they actually are.
2) Targeting Computers only increase crit chance on AC (not LBX), Laser, and PPC crit chances. Only PPC's matter here, because clan AC's are burst fire, and lasers crit for tick damage - less than a point of damage per crit, and each little crit is getting spread randomly between all the slots in that section, including things like gyros and engines and whatnot.
3) Higher crit chance has a negligible impact on ammo explosions. Sure, you're slightly more likely to destroy a bin, but even then you're hoping for a 1-in-10 chance of that bin exploding in the first place, and that bin still having Ammo in it to do damage if it does explode.

Crits are far, FAR less valuable than people like to think.


You can't put CASE in your legs or arms. Only Side Torsos, I don't know why, but that's the case.




Edit: Also, the crit increase from TC's is 7.25% per ton/slot invested. It's not a small amount, but given the massive investment to use it, not really worthwhile in most circumstances.

Well, increasing projectile speed is kinda nifty really. However, given the PPC nerf in general, the gains are relatively minimal.

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Damage destroys leg, goes to ST, destroys ST, goes to CT.

Stopped by case.


That damage may or may not be halved. 50-100 damage will hurt, or straight up destroy your CT. CASE will prevent that.

IIRC, I was told that damage transfer through ammo explosions are not halved, which makes them insta-gib weapons for most ammo types.

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Don't care about small sample size luck.

What I care about are hard numbers.

To destroy ammo, it's 10% chance when the bin is destroyed. To destroy a bin, you need to do 10 points of damage to it in particular. A bin in a leg, for example, has a 1 in 6 chance of being hit by a given crit. If that crit does less than 10 damage (PPC hit, AC10, etc) then there is zero chance of that bin exploding from that crit. You need to crit that component again (and again, a 1-6 chance of hitting that particular bin), and THEN you need to get that 1 in 10 chance of having a bin explode.

That is how the game mechanics work.



They'll only be "in vogue" by players who are bad at math.

The range extension is minimal on most weapons, and only significant on weapons that already have extremely long range (ERLL, for example). Most buffs only work on specific weapons.

Buffs (rank 1):
Crit Chance (Laser, UAC, PPC): 7.25% +1% per additional ton/slot
Laser range: 2.25% +1% per additional ton/slot
Projectile Speed (UAC, PPC), : 4.5% +2% per additional ton/slot
Zoom: 4.5% +2% per additional ton/slot
Sensor Range: 2.25% +1% per additional ton/slot
Targetting Time: -22.25% -10% per additional ton/slot

Targeting time is valuable, but that's a HUGE cost for what you could get via a TIG module.

In all cases, the already hot running clan mechs are far better off using DHS rather than TC's. The rank 1 TC isn't bad, as it's just 1t/1s. Beyond Rank 1, however, they are outright terrible wastes of tonnage.

ERLL: +9m optimal range for rank 1. 429m if you invest 7 tons and 7 slots!
ERPPC: +18m optimal range for rank 1. Holy cow! 858 if you invest 7/7! That'll make all the difference... when another ERPPC would cost you 6t/2s, or you could take 3 DHS and have 4 tons and a slot free instead.

Targeting computers are just bad. DHS are *ALWAYS* better, as they only impact hotter weapons in the first place. They're like LBX autocannons: They're fun and cool, but ultimately they're noob traps, for people who don't understand how things actually work.

Rank 1 is probably optimal. I think the only consideration that would need to be made is DHS vs TC. Some mechs don't have enough crits (think Masakari) where adding DHS can be prohibitive. That would be the only instance that a larger TC over DHS is a scenario worth considering (DHS being more useful obviously).

00ohDstruct, on 09 October 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Doesn't it show that information on those little screens in the cockpit?

ohwait...

Yea... if that thing worked properly... or are completely missing in some mechs (like the Kitfox).

I think the TC has the most impact for lasers.. given the crit chance is rolled more often (they are done over .1 second ticks), and while that doesn't mean I do it to trigger ammo explosions, but added damage (15% damage conversion rate IIRC) is not a bad bonus. Although, the extra damage dealt to crits is IIRC is simply directly to the damage per tick... so in the case of the ERLL, the damage math is dealt over 16 ticks (11 / 16) @ a tiny rate of .6875 damage per tick. In any case, it's not the focal point, as it's also a great alternative to Target Info Gathering or BAP...

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 09 October 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I keep being told that the basic TC (v1) is the best option. It doesn't seem like a drag and it's pretty much worth its weight.

It doesn't fit in all builds, but in some it's decent, and if you've got a ton and a slot free, it's almost never going to be a bad choice.

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Well, increasing projectile speed is kinda nifty really. However, given the PPC nerf in general, the gains are relatively minimal.

Indeed. Sadly, this is a problem for most of the TC buffs: In most circumstances where they'd be best, they're so small. For example, with light energy weapons (small and medium lasers) the range buff is so tiny as to be irrelevant, leaving you just paying very heavily for a crit buff (which you could get the bulk of cheaply).

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IIRC, I was told that damage transfer through ammo explosions are not halved, which makes them insta-gib weapons for most ammo types.

I don't know for sure, to be honest. Ammo explosions are pretty bad, though - I generally assume that a torso based ammo explosion will kill me, and a leg/arm based on will cause substantial damage. I've survived a LOT of leg/arm based ammo explosions, though.

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Rank 1 is probably optimal. I think the only consideration that would need to be made is DHS vs TC. Some mechs don't have enough crits (think Masakari) where adding DHS can be prohibitive. That would be the only instance that a larger TC over DHS is a scenario worth considering (DHS being more useful obviously).

There are VERY few builds that are actually going to benefit from a larger TC vs. either more DHS or more weaponry: A Warhawk, for example, isn't really in this category as you can easily pack in some missiles to eat space/tonnage effectively.

I'd argue that a Clan Active Probe + TCR1 is a much better bet than TCR2. This, because the CAP grants a large TIG bonus. TCR2 is only gaining 10s speed over R1, I believe the CAP is 20-25%. But, also very significantly, the CAP nullifies ECM. Having more *AP equipped mechs on your team severely impairs the impact enemy ECM has at close range, and can make a huge difference, if an indirect one. Also, more sensor range can be quite important too.

In fact, I'd argue the *AP+TC(one rank smaller) is always better than TC(one rank larger) for the reasons above.

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I think the TC has the most impact for lasers.. given the crit chance is rolled more often (they are done over .1 second ticks), and while that doesn't mean I do it to trigger ammo explosions, but added damage (15% damage conversion rate IIRC) is not a bad bonus. Although, the extra damage dealt to crits is IIRC is simply directly to the damage per tick... so in the case of the ERLL, the damage math is dealt over 16 ticks (11 / 16) @ a tiny rate of .6875 damage per tick. In any case, it's not the focal point, as it's also a great alternative to Target Info Gathering or BAP...

TC is best for PPC's, more than lasers, IMHO. They need the speed boost (minimal as it may be), and the crit rate it much more important because of how crits work (what with a PPC that does .1 damage through armor still doing 10pt crits busting up items left and right). More little crits is far less valuable, as many will be lost due to randomization to invulnerable components and spread between other components. It's why the critty LBX isn't really valuable - lots of little crits are FAR less valuable than fewer big crits, even if you've got a higher overall crit damage with the small crits overall.

The thing is, a Rank 7 TC is almost exactly twice as good as a Rank 1 TC. The gain, then, from each additional rank (while linear) is miniscule vs. the cost/benefit of the first rank. At seven times the cost for both tonnage and slots.

Remember, the TC doesn't add crit DAMAGE, it just makes somewhat more crits. Now, you do get more damage as you said via the 15% carryover, but assuming a R7 vs. R1 you're looking at only 6% more crit chance for 6 tons and 6 slots.

That's a really, really heavy price to pay, given that the R1 is +7.25% already.

Ironically, I think that the Inner Sphere would benefit much more from Targeting Computers than Clan do, as PPFLD 10pt hits from regular PPC's and AC10's (both superior weapons to any clan UAC or cERPPC overall) would be extremely dangerous buffed up with loads of crit.

I doubt that this was intentional, though, just something that happened.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 09 October 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

There are VERY few builds that are actually going to benefit from a larger TC vs. either more DHS or more weaponry: A Warhawk, for example, isn't really in this category as you can easily pack in some missiles to eat space/tonnage effectively.

Well, I'm not a fan of LRMs.

Seriously though, I think something like a Timberwolf , which already consumes Clan FF+Endo (14 slots total) while having quite a bit of tonnage to work with may consider it... and possibly something like the Dire Wolf with massive tonnage options.

Mind you, I like DHS more than the TC, and the DHS vs TC is a crit limitation deal IMO. If you can't fit any more DHS due to crits, you could trade some of it "within reason". Again, I'm just considering it from a labbing route option, not necessarily as a more practical thing as I could always use more DHS whenever possible.

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I'd argue that a Clan Active Probe + TCR1 is a much better bet than TCR2. This, because the CAP grants a large TIG bonus. TCR2 is only gaining 10s speed over R1, I believe the CAP is 20-25%. But, also very significantly, the CAP nullifies ECM. Having more *AP equipped mechs on your team severely impairs the impact enemy ECM has at close range, and can make a huge difference, if an indirect one. Also, more sensor range can be quite important too.

In fact, I'd argue the *AP+TC(one rank smaller) is always better than TC(one rank larger) for the reasons above.

I disagree with that. I know the upcoming Myst Lynx is going to have that locked on the chassis and while Clan Tech is still more efficient... relegating Clan BAP to anti-ECM duties when ECM is not available in combination with Streaks is still going to be its #1 usage. TC (v1) over BAP on a Kitfox with ECM is still practical.

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TC is best for PPC's, more than lasers, IMHO. They need the speed boost (minimal as it may be), and the crit rate it much more important because of how crits work (what with a PPC that does .1 damage through armor still doing 10pt crits busting up items left and right). More little crits is far less valuable, as many will be lost due to randomization to invulnerable components and spread between other components. It's why the critty LBX isn't really valuable - lots of little crits are FAR less valuable than fewer big crits, even if you've got a higher overall crit damage with the small crits overall.

I would kinda like to know the math when applied to lasers (the whole ticks+crit damage generation) so I can make a more informed decision. MGs and LBX are easier to calculate because we know exactly how they work.

Of course, obviously known quantities like CERPPC and CGauss will work just as well since it's using the same system the IS mechs use. Although, I would like to know if the crit system applies to the "splash damage" of the CERPPC (it probably does) and how splash damage is applied past optimal range.

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The thing is, a Rank 7 TC is almost exactly twice as good as a Rank 1 TC. The gain, then, from each additional rank (while linear) is miniscule vs. the cost/benefit of the first rank. At seven times the cost for both tonnage and slots.

Remember, the TC doesn't add crit DAMAGE, it just makes somewhat more crits. Now, you do get more damage as you said via the 15% carryover, but assuming a R7 vs. R1 you're looking at only 6% more crit chance for 6 tons and 6 slots.

That's a really, really heavy price to pay, given that the R1 is +7.25% already.

Ironically, I think that the Inner Sphere would benefit much more from Targeting Computers than Clan do, as PPFLD 10pt hits from regular PPC's and AC10's (both superior weapons to any clan UAC or cERPPC overall) would be extremely dangerous buffed up with loads of crit.

I doubt that this was intentional, though, just something that happened.

I'm familiar with crit bonus generation, so that's not a problem. It's sad there is diminishing returns on the TC, but it is what it is.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 09 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Well, I'm not a fan of LRMs.

Seriously though, I think something like a Timberwolf , which already consumes Clan FF+Endo (14 slots total) while having quite a bit of tonnage to work with may consider it... and possibly something like the Dire Wolf with massive tonnage options.

Haven't you noticed? SRM's are brutal these days, and a Timberwolf can pack a bunch using moderate tonnage and few slots. =)

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Mind you, I like DHS more than the TC, and the DHS vs TC is a crit limitation deal IMO. If you can't fit any more DHS due to crits, you could trade some of it "within reason". Again, I'm just considering it from a labbing route option, not necessarily as a more practical thing as I could always use more DHS whenever possible.

I disagree with that. I know the upcoming Myst Lynx is going to have that locked on the chassis and while Clan Tech is still more efficient... relegating Clan BAP to anti-ECM duties when ECM is not available in combination with Streaks is still going to be its #1 usage. TC (v1) over BAP on a Kitfox with ECM is still practical.

Oh, I think you misunderstood. A TC1 is generally going to be better than a CAP, if it's either or. However, a TC1+CAP > TC2; except where the mech already has ECM (which substantially devalues CAP).

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I would kinda like to know the math when applied to lasers (the whole ticks+crit damage generation) so I can make a more informed decision. MGs and LBX are easier to calculate because we know exactly how they work.

Crit damage = laser damage / number of ticks. Koniving knows the tick rate, I forget exactly what it is. I think .1s to .2s; probably the former. This was discussed some time ago with... Paul? I forget who, but it was a dev. Anyways, laser crits are just tick damage, tested per tick.

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Of course, obviously known quantities like CERPPC and CGauss will work just as well since it's using the same system the IS mechs use. Although, I would like to know if the crit system applies to the "splash damage" of the CERPPC (it probably does) and how splash damage is applied past optimal range.

I wish the TC affected the cGauss at all

I would assume that splash damage is scaled for range, but that'd just be an assumption. A testable one, if I cared enough to try though As to it's crits, presumably exactly like everything else: Splash crits do 2.5 crit damage regardless of range.

I don't remember if we tested this, though I know we discussed and tested the crit damage at extended range - did we check to see if you weapons crit past their maximum range, for those weapons that can still hit (but for zero damage)? I know a PPC will one-shot components as long as it does any damage; not sure if it will past it's max range though.

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It's sad there is diminishing returns on the TC, but it is what it is.

Diminishing returns is probably not the right term, but yeah. Rank 1 adds +lots to everything, every other rank adds the same (tiny, +1 or +2% to each) amount. It's very odd, IMHO, that they went that way. I'd have thought they'd have each ton adding the same amount - likely via making the Rank 1 not as good, but each additional rank adding an equal amount of awesomeness. As it stands, those tons are really poorly invested.