43 replies to this topic

[Redwo1f]

I grew up playing Battletech since I was 15 years old (now 42). Bought the table top expansion called "City Tech" while my best friend at the time bought the main Battletech edition - remember the old Archer, Crusader, Stinger, Wasp, etc? - great times. Spent hours each weekend organizing our companies and battling it out. Went on to play the computer games - Cresent Hawk's revenge (remember that one?), Mech Warrior, MW2, MW3, etc. etc. Loved the lore, loved the history, love the mechs. I hope many of you (players AND developers) share the same love.

I am starting to become more discouraged with the current Mechwarrior Online product. Why? Respect for the Battletech universe, its history, its roots seem to be getting lost. I would like to see the game more accurately model the Battletech universe - to be something that really celebrates what Mechwarrior and what Battletech is - something that shows a passion for Battletech...something with, shall I say, heart?. The game (MWO) seems to be moving more and more away from that....seems to be more and more driven by cash grab (yes, I do realize that the game has to be viable financially) and less and less by a passion for the Battletech universe.

There is something fundamentally wrong when the most common battlemech class seen on the battlefield in the Battletech universe (the Medium mech) is relegated to partial obscurity in the game. When matches become far too commonly brawls between souped-up assaults which compose the majority of the team - many of which having load-outs unheard of in the Battletech world (eg., 6 ERPPC's anyone?). This would be extremely rare in the Battletech world, but is common place here. When the game becomes a competition not just between the mechs on the field, but who can come up with the most crazy but viable (and totally unrealistic to Battletech lore) customized build.

I get that some people just don't care, that some just love to customize (as I do too, believe me), that some just don't care about the team compositions...but we have gotten to the point where MWO really doesn't reflect the Battletech spirit, the history, the lore, and indeed, the heart, that much anymore.

So, how can we fix this and still appeal to those that love the game in its current state (as is)? I think a very important step would be to offer a "historical" mode - where there is a set load out for each mech (eg. a Hunchback 4G will always have this particular load-out in this mode, a Raven 3L will always be this set-up, etc., etc.) Simply have a default and unalterable set-up for each variant of each mech WHILE IN THIS MODE - a person could still customize to their heart's content for normal mode...but when in "historical", the load-out will be set. Secondly, there should be either be some real enticement to make mediums more common (c-bill bonuses, experience bonus, etc.) and Assaults less so (c-bill reward reductions, etc.) or set up the match maker to commonly make a much more historical team composition.

Show us, developers, that you love the Battletech universe and do indeed care.

[One Medic Army]

TL:DR you want a stock mode?

No problem with that, but you're going to have to understand that stock mode will probably have even less variety than the current "anything flies" mode, simply because so many of the stock mechs are freaking terrible.

[Praehotec8]

Could be a fun mode, but I think that it could split the player base too much, and also....the choices of mechs would still gravitate towards mechs with the best loadouts. Assaults would still likely be predominant, and mediums under-represented. The reasons for these problems (and the solutions) lie elsewhere. Just read some of the other forum topics for an idea of what I speak of.

[DocBach]

Unfortunately One Medic Army is entirely correct. In MPBT where everything was stock you'd end up seeing drop decks of the same 'Mechs over and over again; JR7-F or JVN-10F Javelin's, Blackjacks or the Wolverine with the large laser, Catapults or Jagermechs (fading backwards opening up bad guys with fast firing AC's was really popular) and either Atlases or BNC-3S Banshees. You'd get a couple of outliers who would pilot different things, but generally most people ran what worked best.

[Khobai]

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6 ERPPC's anyone?

Masakari has 4 CERPPCs which is the same 60 damage as 6 ISERPPCs. Although if you mean only the Masakari should be able to have a loadout like that, then I agree. That is where more strictly enforced hardpoints come in which is something PGI shouldve had the sense to do.

And if a stock mech only mode is added, players should not even be able to choose what mech they pilot, you should pick a weight class, then get assigned a completely random stock mech from that weight class. Pilots in Battletech did not always get to choose their rides, sometimes they just had to pilot what was available. And from a balance standpoint, it would prevent players from always picking the best variants of stock mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 15 August 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Masakari has 4 CERPPCs which is the same 60 damage as 6 ISERPPCs.

I seem to recall a clan 95tonner which actually ran heat neutral with 4 clan ERPPCs...

[Redwo1f]

...I am not saying "stock" as in current renditions. I agree, the "stock" versions need to be improved. More concerned with a "set" and viable, but unalterable load-out for each. Yes, PGI really has to work on improved "stock".

[One Medic Army]

Redwo1f, on 15 August 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

...I am not saying "stock" as in current renditions. I agree, the "stock" versions need to be improved. More concerned with a "set" and viable, but unalterable load-out for each. Yes, PGI really has to work on improved "stock".

So you want PGI to create new stock loadouts, which are viable, and then have every mech fixed to what is essentially it's Champion variant?

Honestly sounds like too much work for too little return, I'd rather just see a stock mode (possibly with changed heat threshold/heat dissipation values so stock mechs aren't infernos on legs).

[Khobai]

Its all relative. Stock mechs only suck against fully customized mechs. But stock mechs are perfectly capable against other stock mechs.

[Shadey99]

My only concern is that the whole system in MWO is not built for stock... The weapons are not stock other than in size and weight, the equipment (ECM anyone?) are not providing stock functions, the heat scale and it's kludges (ghost heat, 'desyncing', etc) are not stock... I could go on, but a 'stock build' in a system that is not, is a broken mode. I want a 'Legacy Mode' if you will. I dont' care how 'bad' some people think such a thing would be.

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Its all relative. Stock mechs only suck against fully customized mechs. But stock mechs are perfectly capable against other stock mechs.

Most 'stock' mechs run SHS, which is completely non-functional in MWO. Who seriously doesn't go out and buy DHS the second they buy a mech?

Edited by Shadey99, 15 August 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Khobai]

Im in complete agreement with a stock mech only mode... most other MW games have had stock mech only gamemodes for the exact same reasons that youve expressed.

Although stock mech only modes in the past did not prevent everyone from picking the same stock mechs over and over.. Which is why a stock mech only mode implemented in MWO should only allow players to choose a weight class, then assign them a random mech from that weight class. Of course that would require many stock lights being updated with larger engines, but its completely doable.

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Most 'stock' mechs run SHS, which is completely non-functional in MWO. Who seriously doesn't go out and buy DHS the second they buy a mech?

I disagree. I frequently do what I call the trial mech challenge where I play a trial mech in a pug match and see if I can do the most damage. And you would be surprised how often I top the damage charts

A good pilot can do well with just about any mech loadout because the fundamentals of the game dont change: shoot the other guys and dont get shot yourself. But should SHS dissipate better to make them a more viable choice vs DHS? Absolutely. But I wouldnt hold your breath for that change...

Edited by Khobai, 15 August 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shadey99, on 15 August 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Most 'stock' mechs run SHS, which is completely non-functional in MWO. Who seriously doesn't go out and buy DHS the second they buy a mech?

Most Stock Mechs right now are 3025 builds. Basic Tech.As the new models roll out you will see less and less single sink builds and ore and more PPCs and Gauss Rifles.

[Khobai]

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Most Stock Mechs right now are 3025 builds. Basic Tech.As the new models roll out you will see less and less single sink builds and ore and more PPCs and Gauss Rifles.

Which doesnt help us unless stock mechs get updated variants. For example, the Atlas-S, which is the Atlas for the new decade. Its got DHS and I guess its hardpoints would be 4 energy, 4 missile, 1 ballistic.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hmmm, A Steiner Upgrade with Dubs, and 2 extra Streak2s... So if you are working from the Atlas-D... Yeah I could see it, but it would just be more of the same, Boating build.

[Khobai]

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Hmmm, A Steiner Upgrade with Dubs, and 2 extra Streak2s... So if you are working from the Atlas-D... Yeah I could see it, but it would just be more of the same, Boating build.

Well not if were talking about stock mech only modes.

Yeah it would be a boat with open customization, but honestly the Atlas is lacking weapon hardpoints anyway for its tonnage, and an extra missile hardpoint would help the Atlas compete with Stalkers.

But the Atlas-S is just an example of a 3050 variant they should add to help make stock mechs less obsolete.

Edited by Khobai, 15 August 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Zylo]

I would rather see a stock mode OPTION as well, I'm curious if it would become more popular due to many stock builds being almost equally bad or if it would be less popular due to a few that are actually decent builds for being stock.

Of course the problem with a stock mode is that there is no reason to C-bill/XP grind unless modules and pilot skills would still be allowed on stock mechs.

I think this could be done in a way that would work, if a stock "copy" of each owned mech exists, just add a 3rd "Stock Mechs" tab to go with owned and trial mechs and any mech that is purchased will go into both the owned and stock mech tabs.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 15 August 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Well not if were talking about stock mech only modes.

Yeah it would be a boat with open customization, but honestly the Atlas is lacking weapon hardpoints anyway for its tonnage, and an extra missile hardpoint would help the Atlas compete with Stalkers.

Right it would be 1 AC20, 4 Medium lasers, 1 SRM6, 2 SSRM2, LRM20.

[Psikez]

Is this like those actual historical giant crab battles in Japan. Because I totally support the King Crab

[Murphy7]

Sort of along the lines, I could see a scenario mode, where players drop in and are randomly assigned to mechs and load outs that are fixed for that encounter. You retain your lance or even company alignments if you like... Maybe a designated commander could move people between mechs, but the mechs themselves were fixed for that "storied encounter".

I personally would enjoy that, and it certainly speaks to a different skillet for the competitive minded.

A storied encounter could also have different, specific victory conditions, and lord knows there are resources out there to pull from if PGI does ever choose to go that route.

[General Taskeen]

Stockish Mechs in previous Mech games weren't that bad, they were either good or average, but they were not trash to use as they are in MWO.

One of the main reasons stockish Mechs in MWO can't be on average or good footing with the "exceptional" maxed Mechs also has to do with balance itself, everything from heat sink design and lackluster type weapons (mg, flamer, narc, lb-x) to jumpjets and the elephant in the room->ECM->this fantasy tool alone absolutely ruins the concept of stock designs that use just a handful of lasers and several tons worth of LRMs or even Streaks.

Anyways, I will definitely play such a mode if PGI makes it, either historical/no customization mode or some sort of 'limited/partial' customization mode. Whateva's cleva. The more variety in available game types, the better.

Edited by General Taskeen, 15 August 2013 - 05:01 PM.