69 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 13 October 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

The vote difference was 5, FIVE, votes. As far as I'm concerned they both should be added at the same time and before the Assaults in that previous poll.

It just goes to show the love for Heavy chassis and the lack of representation in the variety available. By this point in the Battletech universe there are tons of chassis and sadly due to production limitations of game development (in addition to over 1000 years of Lore development and manufacturing content) we have only a small fraction of the existing mechs.

Assaults were almost as close. Why should these guys get consideration before them, and why shouldn't BOTH Assaults also be put in?

Mcgral18, on 13 October 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

A worse 3d?


Oh...okay...Maybe it will have better hitboxes.

Or agility to compensate lack of ballistics. It's still more interesting than a 5 tons heavier and WORSE Grasshopper, aka BK.

CycKath, on 13 October 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

especially as lot of people see assaults as end-game for some reason.

Guessing it's too hard to steer and SHOOT from more mobile platforms when using a steering wheel?

TB Xiomburg, on 13 October 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

There was probably an outside force screwing with the poll. It was likd they were attempting a tie. I call shenanigans on the poll.

Same. There was no Urbanmech option offered. Poll clearly had biased end results.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 October 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CycKath, on 13 October 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Yep, everybody just kept harping on about the small lasers and that Charger needs melee to be in MWO, ignoring the fact it had much more variety than either the Zeus and Cyclops.

Agreed. If I had felt it had any chance of winning, I might have voted it, over either, but sadly, I knew that kind of myopic thought process ruled the roost here. Charger also would probably have been the most agile, even with a downrated engine, and would have made a nice counterpart to the Clan Man O War.

[Mavairo]

I voted for the Charger in the assault poll.

Charger would have been a hell of alot of fun I think.

[Belorion]

MauttyKoray, on 13 October 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Seriously, I would actually rather have both of those two sooner than any of the 3 in the assault poll and before any other mediums/lights. I'm a IS Light/Medium pilot (clan medium/heavy) and I feel like the IS Heavies need some love in chassis variety, followed by 1 more IS assault chassis that is in addition to the King Crab.

TL;DR
1. Make Black Knight AND Grasshopper.

2. Make Zeus OR Cyclops.

3. Release King Crab/Clan Wave 2 on schedule.

These votes are for the packages, not simply for inclusion in the game. I am sure they will implement all of them... eventually

[Bishop Steiner]

Golden Vulf, on 13 October 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

The Charger would be great if physical attacks were in the game. Well, maybe not great, but at least useable.

With the ridiculous endo steel upgrade and double heatsinks and xl engines, people would just turn the charger with its energy hardpoints into a dual PPC/large laser Hatomoto-Chi. Which is exactly what the Draconis Combine did to their Chargers.

Also it seems they ended the poll arbitrarily as soon as the Grasshopper pulled ahead since that's the one they've probably been working on.

The Black Knight without the Hatchet variant is a waste of space anyway, they need to get working on physical attacks. Even Transformers: Fall of Cybertron had physical attacks. Every successful multi player fps game I can remember has had physical attacks.

Doom had physical attacks!

Kindly explain why it would need physical attacks to have been great?

Many people harped on that, repeatedly in the poll, but it quite simply is not needed. As Cyckath said, yes, the stock version is 5 small lasers.

or, in MWO Speak:

CGR-1A1
H: 1x energy
RT: 1-2x Energy
LT: 1-2x Energy
RA: 1-2x Energy
LA: 1-2x Energy
-Fast, More Agile than pre-nerf Victor energy boat with 5-9 hardpoints

CGR-1A5
H: 1x energy
RT: 1-3x Ballistic
LT: 2x Missile
CT:1-2x Ballistic

-Well rounded weapon platform able to use both arms as shields, and Zombie. Just adding Endo and DHS makes it a solid mech (Upgrade ct laser to ER Large, ad 1 ton ac ammo, 2 tons srm ammo)


CGR-3K
RT: 1-3x Missile, 1x Energy
LT: 1-2x Energy
RA: 1x Energy
LA: 1x Energy

-Missiles and more important, 5x JJs, stock. Ability to be a very good mobile harraser



plus, they could then offer a "Super Bee" package



that said, I don't see where melee would be required for it to be effective.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 October 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[Mavairo]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

Kindly explain why it would need physical attacks to have been great?

Many people harped on that, repeatedly in the poll, but it quite simply is not needed. As Cyckath said, yes, the stock version is 5 small lasers.

or, in MWO Speak:

CGR-1A1
H: 1x energy
RT: 1-2x Energy
LT: 1-2x Energy
RA: 1-2x Energy
LA: 1-2x Energy
-Fast, More Agile than pre-nerf Victor energy boat with 5-9 hardpoints

CGR-1A5
H: 1x energy
RT: 1-3x Ballistic
LT: 2x Missile
CT:1-2x Ballistic

-Well rounded weapon platform able to use both arms as shields, and Zombie. Just adding Endo and DHS makes it a solid mech (Upgrade ct laser to ER Large, ad 1 ton ac ammo, 2 tons srm ammo)


CGR-3K
RT: 1-3x Missile, 1x Energy
LT: 1-2x Energy
RA: 1x Energy
LA: 1x Energy

-Missiles and more important, 5x JJs, stock. Ability to be a very good mobile harraser



plus, they could then offer a "Super Bee" package



that said, I don't see where melee would be required for it to be effective.

I think it's because people have an innate hate of mobile assault mechs. Personally I'd LOVE a charger. Hell I have a 'simulated charger' in my stable out of my BLR 1D.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e4d626ca564fb0a True Armor Distribution: Classified.

[VirtualSmitty]

Mavairo, on 14 October 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I voted for the Charger in the assault poll.

Charger would have been a hell of alot of fun I think.

Likewise. Charger has a bunch of good variants, especially the 1A5.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

Or agility to compensate lack of ballistics. It's still more interesting than a 5 tons heavier and WORSE Grasshopper, aka BK.

I guess if they inflate the Grasshoppers hardpoints you might be right, but 3-6 E VS 7-8 E? You get a one slot missile and JJs.

You'll need some hefty inflation for the Grasshopper to be anything other than a joke. 4 JJs is barely usable on a 70 tonner.


Not looking promising.

Edited by Mcgral18, 14 October 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[SgtMagor]

I voted for the Charger, would have been interesting to have another 80 ton fast striker, that has a jump jet variant.

[Angel of Annihilation]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Have fun overheating. Alphaing 8 MLas is just about the dumbest thing one can do.

JJs are also getting buffs BTW.

BK can mount about 21-22 DHS vs the GH mounting only about 18 DHS so BK can have a much bigger heat pool and threshold to deal with all the energy weapons either of these two mechs have to mount.

Additionally Russ used words like "Slight" and "Little bit" to describe the buffs JJs were getting. Slight and little bit aren't even close to what is actually needed to make JJs something viable for a 70 ton heavy mech.

That being the case, I would have taken the extra tonnage and space for extra DHS any day over 4 JJs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 14 October 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

I guess if they inflate the Grasshoppers hardpoints you might be right, but 3-6 E VS 7-8 E? You get a one slot missile and JJs.

You'll need some hefty inflation for the Grasshopper to be anything other than a joke. 4 JJs is barely usable on a 70 tonner.


Not looking promising.

And as noted, out of the two, what makes the Black Knight any LESS of a joke?

Pure energy boat in ALL forms, and not even the option of JJs for increased mobility, which in itself is worth more than the single ton of armor capacity difference, and the total 5 ton difference is not enough to make the BK suddenly better.

Viktor Drake, on 14 October 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

BK can mount about 21-22 DHS vs the GH mounting only about 18 DHS so BK can have a much bigger heat pool and threshold to deal with all the energy weapons either of these two mechs have to mount.

Additionally Russ used words like "Slight" and "Little bit" to describe the buffs JJs were getting. Slight and little bit aren't even close to what is actually needed to make JJs something viable for a 70 ton heavy mech.

That being the case, I would have taken the extra tonnage and space for extra DHS any day over 4 JJs.

Well, since I find my JJs quite viable and useful in my Summoner, I will have to agree to disagree. Sure, I would like more, but I'd take them over a handful of DHS pretty much any day.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

Or agility to compensate lack of ballistics. It's still more interesting than a 5 tons heavier and WORSE Grasshopper, aka BK.

First, the CTF-3D and the Grasshopper have the same speed profile and the same tonnage. So unless they give it agility quirks, they will have the same agility.
Second, it would have to get some insane agility quirks to ever compete with the CTF-3D considering the power of IS ballistics.

Either way, Wubhopper or Wub Knight will be interesting to play outside of the standard laser vomits that will appear on these mechs.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 14 October 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Charger has 3 distinct variants!
1A1 All energy
1A5 Powerful combat mix
1A9 LRMs with JJs!

It has 3 variants! And a Hero variant the Storrs

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 14 October 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

First, the CTF-3D and the Grasshopper have the same speed profile and the same tonnage. So unless they give it agility quirks, they will have the same agility.
mechs.

First, agility is a quirk that can be buffed or nerfed to fit a role. Since the Grasshopper has less weapon diversity than the CTF, it makes sense it would be more agile.

[Belorion]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 14 October 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Likewise. Charger has a bunch of good variants, especially the 1A5.

I do hope the charger is eventually put in.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

First, agility is a quirk that can be buffed or nerfed to fit a role. Since the Grasshopper has less weapon diversity than the CTF, it makes sense it would be more agile.

Like how the Summoner got agility buffs?
Your argument hinges an awful lot on a hypothetical that while reasonable, doesn't have a lot of precedence.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 14 October 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Like how the Summoner got agility buffs?
Your argument hinges an awful lot on a hypothetical that while reasonable, doesn't have a lot of precedence.

Even without, the my point was that if the GH is a worse CTF, the BK really ends up being an even worse GH.

Not really a lot of hypothetical to the actual premise.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

And as noted, out of the two, what makes the Black Knight any LESS of a joke?

Pure energy boat in ALL forms, and not even the option of JJs for increased mobility, which in itself is worth more than the single ton of armor capacity difference, and the total 5 ton difference is not enough to make the BK suddenly better.


Well, since I find my JJs quite viable and useful in my Summoner, I will have to agree to disagree. Sure, I would like more, but I'd take them over a handful of DHS pretty much any day.

The BK can at least mount weapons. They have similar speed profiles, with the difference being JJs.

5 JJs on the Suckonner are usable, 4 on the CTF less so. Which do you think this will compare to, with 4?


On paper, I'd take the BK every time. I've got no problem with energy boats, as evidenced by the WubShee. The Grasshopper just doesn't bring anything new.

Hardpoint inflation will be difficult to diversify, since two of them have missiles in the head, one of which has 3 E hardpoints.

Only 3 Grasshoppers in timeline:
5H which has head missile, 1 ML in each arm, 1 ML each ST and a LL in the CT, for 5E and 1M.
5J which also has a head missile, then ML in each arm, AMS in the LT and ERLL in the CT; 3E, 1M
5N being the energy boat with an ML in each arm and ST, with a additional PPC in the RT, and a ML in the head; 6E

They all have 4 JJs and 280 engines, which means same movement as the Cataphract with the 340 max engine.


BK is nothing amazing either, but again, at least it has hardpoints. If the Grasshopper gets inflated, the BK stands to get even more inflation, which would still make it the superior boat. Lack of joined ghost heat means boating 10+ IS lasers a non issue.


Both mechs will be mediocre, no doubt about that. One will have greater offensive capabilities, which is what I prefer.

[1453 R]

WM Quicksilver, on 14 October 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Like how the Summoner got agility buffs?
Your argument hinges an awful lot on a hypothetical that while reasonable, doesn't have a lot of precedence.

You keep harshing on the Grasshopper, Quick. Why?

The Black Knight was voted for in that thread for two reasons: TT and/or MW4 nostalgia, and in the hopes that it would be a direct Inner Sphere tech base competitor to the TBR Laser Vomit builds. As in able to stand up to a TBR Laser Vomit face-to-face, one on one, and take it down. That's what people wanted it in the game to be able to do.

The Black Knight is never going to be able to do that.

Nostalgia's a perfectly valid reason to want a 'Mech in the game, but if that's your argument, then make it your argument. Don't try and hang all kinds of "This stupid bug is just an infinitely worse version of one variant of one 'Mech" on the Grasshopper. Perhaps an innate heavy jumper with 6-7 energy hardpoints, hanging out in the 70-75 ton Sweet Spot for heavy 'Mechs, might surprise you?

Besides. The Grasshopper has, literally, TrollFace missiles. TrollFace missiles are awesome.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 14 October 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

You keep harshing on the Grasshopper, Quick. Why?

The Black Knight was voted for in that thread for two reasons: TT and/or MW4 nostalgia, and in the hopes that it would be a direct Inner Sphere tech base competitor to the TBR Laser Vomit builds. As in able to stand up to a TBR Laser Vomit face-to-face, one on one, and take it down. That's what people wanted it in the game to be able to do.

The Black Knight is never going to be able to do that.

Nostalgia's a perfectly valid reason to want a 'Mech in the game, but if that's your argument, then make it your argument. Don't try and hang all kinds of "This stupid bug is just an infinitely worse version of one variant of one 'Mech" on the Grasshopper. Perhaps an innate heavy jumper with 6-7 energy hardpoints, hanging out in the 70-75 ton Sweet Spot for heavy 'Mechs, might surprise you?

Besides. The Grasshopper has, literally, TrollFace missiles. TrollFace missiles are awesome.

I didn't say it was infinitely worse, I just don't understand the rationalization for people picking the Hopper like it is actually going to compete with other mechs or miles better than the BK. To me, both are equally bad but at least one is semi-unique in having 8 energy hardpoints (closest is 10 tons heavier) so I voted on what could look cooler to me (BK). Also Wub Knight sounds cooler than Wubhopper.

Plus Guillotine > Grasshopper which is what I'm really disappointed about, no Guillotine on the vote.